GTS vs SRT vs ACR vs TA Lap times

[early13viper]

How comparable would lap times between the different varieties of the Viper? I'm curious on all counts but specifically interested in how much slower my Launch Edition (Bone Stock) would be compared to say a 2014 TA on an average 2 mile course.

[Darius]

The 1st day I took my ACR to Laguna I ran 4 seconds faster, 1.32's vs 1.36's. I ran my TA at Sonoma with hoosiers and ran 1.44. ACR with stock tires 1.40.5. ACR with hoosier fronts 1.40.03. Haven't ran full hoosiers on the ACR yet but I guarantee it would be in the 39's. I would say a easy estimate is the acr is 4 seconds faster than a TA and 6 seconds faster than a GTS

[VENOM V]

Yep, that's pretty consistent. An ACR on stock tires has been about 4 seconds faster than a TA with Hoosiers. This is what most guys are reporting.

[J TNT]

That's an interesting Delta , even with the T/A on hoosiers . Thanks for sharing !


The 1st day I took my ACR to Laguna I ran 4 seconds faster, 1.32's vs 1.36's. I ran my TA at Sonoma with hoosiers and ran 1.44. ACR with stock tires 1.40.5. ACR with hoosier fronts 1.40.03. Haven't ran full hoosiers on the ACR yet but I guarantee it would be in the 39's. I would say a easy estimate is the acr is 4 seconds faster than a TA and 6 seconds faster than a GTS

[Bruce H.]

The 1st day I took my ACR to Laguna I ran 4 seconds faster, 1.32's vs 1.36's.
Was the 1.36 TA times on Corsa's or Hoosiers?

[Arizona Vipers]

From all the magazine articles I've read over the years, the TA is .5 to 1 second faster than the base or GTS Viper. Even Gille's said this in interviews.
See attachment for Motor Trend's all time Laguna track times. Not much difference in lap times between TA and base/GTS, and I'd say a LOT of it has to be attributed just to the alignment specs.

17976

[Bruce H.]

From all the magazine articles I've read over the years, the TA is .5 to 1 second faster than the base or GTS Viper. Even Gille's said this in interviews.
See attachment for Motor Trend's all time Laguna track times. Not much difference in lap times between TA and base/GTS, and I'd say a LOT of it has to be attributed just to the alignment specs.

17976

That's a listing of single hero laps and in some cases they're not at all representative of typical lap times throughout a session. When Randy boiled the ZR1 brakes on that 1:33:90 lap the ZR1 would have then moved to the bottom of the list for subsequent laps, along with other cars that are also designed to barely pull off the all-important single hero lap for marketing purposes.

SRT offered Viper brakes in three capacities, with the TA having the highest thermal capacity. I wouldn't expect that to make much difference on one hard lap, but it sure will after that. And I wouldn't be so sure that any of the Vipers were running stock alignment ;)

Since I think all three Vipers had the Corsas, Sidewinders, advanced aero, and perhaps alignment, it's to be expected that the stiffer sprung and sway barred TA would narrowly edge out the others, and the gap would definitely widen in subsequent laps as the high capacity brakes start to show their value.

[Andi]

That's a listing of single hero laps and in some cases they're not at all representative of typical lap times throughout a session. When Randy boiled the ZR1 brakes on that 1:33:90 lap the ZR1 would have then moved to the bottom of the list for subsequent laps, along with other cars that are also designed to barely pull off the all-important single hero lap for marketing purposes.

SRT offered Viper brakes in three capacities, with the TA having the highest thermal capacity. I wouldn't expect that to make much difference on one hard lap, but it sure will after that. And I wouldn't be so sure that any of the Vipers were running stock alignment ;)

Since I think all three Vipers had the Corsas, Sidewinders, advanced aero, and perhaps alignment, it's to be expected that the stiffer sprung and sway barred TA would narrowly edge out the others, and the gap would definitely widen in subsequent laps as the high capacity brakes start to show their value.

In my experience, ZR1 brakes are way better than TA brakes. Especially when the TA still has the junk OE pads.

[Arizona Vipers]

Since I think all three Vipers had the Corsas, Sidewinders, advanced aero, and perhaps alignment, it's to be expected that the stiffer sprung and sway barred TA would narrowly edge out the others, and the gap would definitely widen in subsequent laps as the high capacity brakes start to show their value.

Agreed!

[One Viper Bite]

That's a listing of single hero laps and in some cases they're not at all representative of typical lap times throughout a session. When Randy boiled the ZR1 brakes on that 1:33:90 lap the ZR1 would have then moved to the bottom of the list for subsequent laps, along with other cars that are also designed to barely pull off the all-important single hero lap for marketing purposes.

SRT offered Viper brakes in three capacities, with the TA having the highest thermal capacity. I wouldn't expect that to make much difference on one hard lap, but it sure will after that. And I wouldn't be so sure that any of the Vipers were running stock alignment ;)

Since I think all three Vipers had the Corsas, Sidewinders, advanced aero, and perhaps alignment, it's to be expected that the stiffer sprung and sway barred TA would narrowly edge out the others, and the gap would definitely widen in subsequent laps as the high capacity brakes start to show their value.

Where did you read that Randy boiled the brakes on the ZR1? In all of the testing I've seen of the ZR1, the brakes never had any issues. If anything, the most praised aspect of the ZR1 is the brakes. They've always been described as potent and consistent. Also, Randy posted 2 consecutive hot laps in the Motor Trend comparison of the 2013 Viper GTS and ZR1. The first lap was a 1:33.77 and he immediately followed that up with a 1:33.70.

When Motor Trend followed up with the TA test I think we all saw the huge effects that the alignment, larger brake rotors, stiffer sway bars, and carbon aero had on the Viper. I know SRT says the GTS is only .5-1 second slower than the TA but let's be honest here. Randy Pobst is a successful and very skilled race car driver. He was over 2 seconds a lap slower in the GTS than in the TA for 2 major reasons: braking and high speed stability. 2 seconds and all on the same tire! That means in the hands of a regular driver, the GTS is probably slower and less confidence inspiring at the limit.

I have a 2013 GTS and I haven't had the chance to track it yet. I've only taken it on a few canyon runs. But given the data from Motor Trend's testing, I think the TA is proof that the GTS is not dialed as best as it can be. The TA is how the GTS should have been set up form the get-go, in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents...

[VENOM V]

Was the 1.36 TA times on Corsa's or Hoosiers?

Bruce, he was running Hoosiers on the TA that day

[LmeaViper]

From all the magazine articles I've read over the years, the TA is .5 to 1 second faster than the base or GTS Viper. Even Gille's said this in interviews.
See attachment for Motor Trend's all time Laguna track times. Not much difference in lap times between TA and base/GTS, and I'd say a LOT of it has to be attributed just to the alignment specs.

17976

From what mag and month was this chart shown?

[Stealth]

Where did you read that Randy boiled the brakes on the ZR1? In all of the testing I've seen of the ZR1, the brakes never had any issues. If anything, the most praised aspect of the ZR1 is the brakes. They've always been described as potent and consistent. Also, Randy posted 2 consecutive hot laps in the Motor Trend comparison of the 2013 Viper GTS and ZR1. The first lap was a 1:33.77 and he immediately followed that up with a 1:33.70.

When Motor Trend followed up with the TA test I think we all saw the huge effects that the alignment, larger brake rotors, stiffer sway bars, and carbon aero had on the Viper. I know SRT says the GTS is only .5-1 second slower than the TA but let's be honest here. Randy Pobst is a successful and very skilled race car driver. He was over 2 seconds a lap slower in the GTS than in the TA for 2 major reasons: braking and high speed stability. 2 seconds and all on the same tire! That means in the hands of a regular driver, the GTS is probably slower and less confidence inspiring at the limit.

I have a 2013 GTS and I haven't had the chance to track it yet. I've only taken it on a few canyon runs. But given the data from Motor Trend's testing, I think the TA is proof that the GTS is not dialed as best as it can be. The TA is how the GTS should have been set up form the get-go, in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents...

Just add TA sway bars, exterior aero, TA alignment, Castrol SRF brake fluid and Corsa tires to your GTS.

[Terminator02]

I wish someone had GT data. It's lighter than the GTS and the 2015+ have slight gearing and hp changes compared to the mag reviews of the 13/14 gts.

[Bruce H.]

Where did you read that Randy boiled the brakes on the ZR1?

It was never put into print that I'm aware of. But we all know strange stuff sometimes happens when cars get tested, like the pedal assembly on a Gen V coming loose, so let's not worry about it. The point about the value of a single hero laps is the one I really wanted to make.

[Bruce H.]

Bruce, he was running Hoosiers on the TA that day

Thanks Todd! The reason I asked is because the only ACR-E time I have for my home track is Ralph's recent best, which is just over 5 seconds quicker than my stock TA on Corsas. At least I don't feel like I'm dogging it too much now, lol! Thanks again.

[gcrain]

For reference Pobst's times were:

Viper TA Corsa - 1:33.62
Viper TA Slicks - 1:30.78
Viper ACR - 1:28.65

[serpent]

I never heard of the zr1 boiling brakes during those tests at LS either. The ZR1 brakes are better than the TA.
ZR1 tires were also better, had dodge gone with MPSC2, we would have seen 1:32s. A record that still wouldn't be broken today with the c7z and gt3rs.

[J TNT]

For reference Pobst's times were:

Viper TA Corsa - 1:33.62
Viper TA Slicks - 1:30.78
Viper ACR - 1:28.65

Thanks gcrain , that Delta is more inline with what I was expecting.

[Arizona Vipers]

For reference Pobst's times were:

Viper TA Corsa - 1:33.62
Viper TA Slicks - 1:30.78
Viper ACR - 1:28.65

Which slicks? What article was this in where Randy ran slicks? I missed this!

[Arizona Vipers]

From what mag and month was this chart shown?

It was from Motor Trend. Not sure of the exact month, but it was about 3-4 months ago.

[early13viper]

Lot's of different answers here. Anyone with real world experience between a GTS and a TA?

[early13viper]

After researching every lap time I could find. (especially Motortrends June 2013 issue where the retested the SRT and the GTS with both tire options) this is what I came up with.

Average 2 mile course.
Base GTS/SRT P zeros (-5.5 seconds)
GTS Corsa/track package aero (-4.5 seconds)
TA (-4 seconds)
ACR (Delta Time)

So this would mean my stock LE would be 1.5 seconds slower than a TA on a standard road course.

[Arizona Vipers]

After researching every lap time I could find. (especially Motortrends June 2013 issue where the retested the SRT and the GTS with both tire options) this is what I came up with.

Average 2 mile course.
Base GTS/SRT P zeros (-5.5 seconds)
GTS Corsa/track package aero (-4.5 seconds)
TA (-4 seconds)
ACR (Delta Time)

So this would mean my stock LE would be 1.5 seconds slower than a TA on a standard road course.


From everything I've read, I would say this is fairly accurate. That being said, I'd say the ACR Kumho's are worth at least 2 seconds over the Corsa's/P Zero's.

[darbgnik]

After researching every lap time I could find. (especially Motortrends June 2013 issue where the retested the SRT and the GTS with both tire options) this is what I came up with.

Average 2 mile course.
Base GTS/SRT P zeros (-5.5 seconds)
GTS Corsa/track package aero (-4.5 seconds)
TA (-4 seconds)
ACR (Delta Time)

So this would mean my stock LE would be 1.5 seconds slower than a TA on a standard road course.

This list misses a large number of '13 Vipers, base with track pack, the lightest Viper they made. I would also bet the 1 second between the first 2 is the difference between the P-Zero and Corsa. Rubber is huge, and I'd guess even the Corsa are worth a second over the P-Zero.

[VENOM V]

I believe that if you take a GTS, add the TA rotors and pads, carbon aero, equal tires and a TA alignment (or more- I ran -2.8 degrees front camber on my GTS) it will be a driver's race between the GTS and TA. The TA is a little better, however the more skilled driver will win. I tracked my GTS with TAs many times, the only one that beat me was Darius. He is top talent, which I think gave him the edge more so than the fact that he drove a TA. We were both on Hoosiers.

[early13viper]

I believe that if you take a GTS, add the TA rotors and pads, carbon aero, equal tires and a TA alignment (or more- I ran -2.8 degrees front camber on my GTS) it will be a driver's race between the GTS and TA. The TA is a little better, however the more skilled driver will win. I tracked my GTS with TAs many times, the only one that beat me was Darius. He is top talent, which I think gave him the edge more so than the fact that he drove a TA. We were both on Hoosiers.

Seems like that would be a lot of $ Just to keep up with a TA. 😁

[VENOM V]

Seems like that would be a lot of $ Just to keep up with a TA. ��

I suppose, but many GTSs came with carbon aero from the factory. And you have to replace rotors eventually so just get TA rotors (in the front is all that matters, I ran Stoptech rear rotors and they were fine). Only advanced aggressive drivers would need this, as stock brakes are good enough for many. As for alignment, that's another item that you need to do on a track car periodically any way.

[J TNT]

And you can't get the GTS interior in the T/A. ;)

[One Viper Bite]

I believe that if you take a GTS, add the TA rotors and pads, carbon aero, equal tires and a TA alignment (or more- I ran -2.8 degrees front camber on my GTS) it will be a driver's race between the GTS and TA. The TA is a little better, however the more skilled driver will win. I tracked my GTS with TAs many times, the only one that beat me was Darius. He is top talent, which I think gave him the edge more so than the fact that he drove a TA. We were both on Hoosiers.

I think this solidifies my point. The GTS should have come, from the factory like a TA. It just buttons up and settles the GTS.