Full Bolt on Viper with Arrow tune bs Torrie McPhail's HP tuners

[v10tt]

After debating the issue and seeing d last post by a member that made d switch and picked up power, and another Florida member that dynoed 560s rw with my same set up, I decided to give a try and spend d $$.

Boy am I a happy camper.
First pull with arrow after a 30 minute cool down was 559/492 at the tires . IAT was 94 Deg at the end of the pull, AFRs in d low 12s

After 3 hours of remote dyno tuning we got 602/549 TQ. We did 11 pulls all 10 minutes apart. IAT at 114 and not budging at all in any pull.

I made couple of Nice clean pulls to 6700 rpms in d heat , runs like a raped Ape on d streets. Climbs the rpms smooth.

Crazy gains, but look at d gains at 5200 rpms
80 hp and almost 80 TQ
Car is a beast, and Torrie is a GURU!!

Dyno sheets in link below

https://flic.kr/p/GToZwh

https://flic.kr/p/HEuevY

[7TH_SIGN]

Awesome man!!!! Congrats.

[Space Truckin]

Those are great numbers given your IAT's, nice work.

[TwinVipers]

Damn that's great gains for sure!

[Steve M]

For easier viewing:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/HPTuners%20Viper/26835897984_dc7bd38a2a_k_zps7hduqn0e.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/HPTuners%20Viper/27346162942_12b5e5a7d1_k_zps2l1lxuux.jpg

I knew the Arrow tune would leave a little on the table, but that's way more than just a little power left on the table.

[Ripper]

Kick Ass!!

[v10tt]

Thanks for posting, between 6000 & 6500 rpms is 50-55 rwh gap.

[DanH]

How did you set it up? Did you buy the tune through the shop? I'm in Miami with an arrow too.

[v10tt]

How did you set it up? Did you buy the tune through the shop? I'm in Miami with an arrow too.

I bought it through Unleashed tuning (Torrie). I then downloaded Team Viewer and he remotely logged on and did my base tune and read d stock PCM.

I then went to the dyno with My Laptop and Lujan just worked for Torrie for 3 hours doing d pulls and sending d graphs . Torrie did all d data logging and uploads of d tunes until he was happy with the results.
Torrie did a lot on d PCM besides timing and fuel.

[ACRucrazy]

Very awesome.
I may have look into this..

[NT-ACR]

After debating the issue and seeing d last post by a member that made d switch and picked up power, and another Florida member that dynoed 560s rw with my same set up, I decided to give a try and spend d $$.

Boy am I a happy camper.
First pull with arrow after a 30 minute cool down was 559/492 at the tires . IAT was 94 Deg at the end of the pull, AFRs in d low 12s

After 3 hours of remote dyno tuning we got 602/549 TQ. We did 11 pulls all 10 minutes apart. IAT at 114 and not budging at all in any pull.

I made couple of Nice clean pulls to 6700 rpms in d heat , runs like a raped Ape on d streets. Climbs the rpms smooth.

Crazy gains, but look at d gains at 5200 rpms
80 hp and almost 80 TQ
Car is a beast, and Torrie is a GURU!!

Dyno sheets in link below

https://flic.kr/p/GToZwh

https://flic.kr/p/HEuevY

Fantastic numbers. Hope you enjoy the new found power! Also, as you said, Torrie is awesome. He did my Ford GT when I Whippled it and gave me an outstanding tune that made tons of power but was still very safe. Glad to see he's doing Vipers now.

[viper04]

Nice numbers. Torrie pretty good with the tune for sure. I don't think the IAT at 114 would hurt you using the HP tuner because you are able to move the IAT table higher and not pull any timing. That,s the nice thing about using HP tuner.

[outnumbered]

Excellent!!

[donk_316]

Has Torrie tuned a VE heads and cam car yet?

[1.8t]

Looks like the Arrow tune doesn't touch the IAT vs Timing table at all. Safe for sure, but will definitely leave power on the table as IATs climb. Makes sense for a car being driven at the track, but not so much for a pure street car IMO.

[Sub Driver]

Custom tune will beat a canned tune every time. I'm struggling to see the benefit to buying the Arrow controller at all with this much difference.

[ViperPete]

Amazing job!

[Steve M]

Custom tune will beat a canned tune every time. I'm struggling to see the benefit to buying the Arrow controller at all with this much difference.

The only thing it has going for it IMO is that it is plug and play...well, after you get it programmed the first time that is. HPTuners isn't perfect, but it is a damn good tool when put in the right hands.

[Sticky]

Night and day.

[danny1305]

Very interesting. Nice to see these actual numbers instead of just talk about how one is better than the other. I'm guessing the guy that comes in every thread promoting his products while bashing everyone else's will not make an appearance in this one lol

[Stealth]

Blown motor due to detonation = $$$$$$$

As Clint Eastwood said, "do you feel lucky punk.?" At a HPDE you would hardly notice the difference in power since the Viper has so much more power than most of the other cars on the track

[Steve M]

Blown motor due to detonation = $$$$$$$

As Clint Eastwood said, "do you feel lucky punk.?" At a HPDE you would hardly notice the difference in power since the Viper has so much more power than most of the other cars on the track

Yes, but the million dollar question is how likely is that to happen? An 80HP difference is about like throwing a boat anchor out behind the car, and I've seen people on here that have complained about it at HPDEs.

From this thread: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/6393-Lapping-day-heat-soak-robs-stock-power-now-how-much-worse-once-modded


I notice it too. For example I was tracking with a McClaren and a 458 recently, and both of them would out-accelerate me coming out of a slow corner at Sonoma Raceway. I'd catch them later, but they had the advantage in the main straight. I'm sure a lot of other factors have to do with it such as gearing, but I sometimes feel like the Viper could be faster. I've been meaning to look at my top speeds lap by lap. My new Aim Solo DL will make that easy to log.


The effects of heat soak on my stock Gen V are noticable on straightaways where top speed starts to fall off as I get the tires heated up and lap times drop. I haven't modified my airbox to lower intake air temps to hopefully prevent the ECU from dumping fuel and/or pull timing, but I suspect any of our available power mods will cause the ECU to pull power in those ways to help protect the engine. And if ECU tuning prevents those safeguards from intervening what does that mean for engine longevity. Which mods would be best for the engine, and where do you stop to safely handle the demands of aggressive lapping day use?

[Jack B]

This may be apples and oranges, however, at the dragstrip, the IAT may start out well above ambient air temp, however, at the end of the quarter the two are lock-sync. Has anyone posted the IAT versus ambient on a road course.

[FLATOUT]

Has Torrie tuned a VE heads and cam car yet?

Our package will not work with HP Tuners, and i'm happy with a Winkles tune in our ECU, we have to make these things live everywhere in a ton of different conditions including 91 octane states and at altitude.

[FLATOUT]

This may be apples and oranges, however, at the dragstrip, the IAT may start out well above ambient air temp, however, at the end of the quarter the two are lock-sync. Has anyone posted the IAT versus ambient on a road course.

On my car at NOLA at speed I was 5 degrees above ambient with the insulated DS Heatshield.

[Red Snake]

Wow, nice work Torrie. Thats impressive.

[GTR>Viper]

V10TT, What did you do with the Arrow unit? If we decide to switch, are we stuck with a $1,000 paper-weight?

[v10tt]

I kept it, I know of some one who had one on his car '14, sold the car and got another '14 and had Arrow reprogam the PCM so he could put in on his new ride.
Other than That, I think is yours for life.

[TwinVipers]

Our package will not work with HP Tuners, and i'm happy with a Winkles tune in our ECU, we have to make these things live everywhere in a ton of different conditions including 91 octane states and at altitude.

It's understandable that you have to tune safely and for all variables out there, but why would hp tuners not work with your package if one has an extra stock ecu to use?

[FLATOUT]

It's understandable that you have to tune safely and for all variables out there, but why would hp tuners not work with your package if one has an extra stock ecu to use?

Thats a good question, I'll ask Dick. If it could copy the base file and then you could go back and play with air, fuel, spark it might work. Dick tuned mine live on the dyno just to see how much more we could "squeeze" out of it over our early production cal and there was very little left on the table (6rwhp) so it was set back to the base H/C tune.

[SNK3BIT]

After debating the issue and seeing d last post by a member that made d switch and picked up power, and another Florida member that dynoed 560s rw with my same set up, I decided to give a try and spend d $$.

Boy am I a happy camper.
First pull with arrow after a 30 minute cool down was 559/492 at the tires . IAT was 94 Deg at the end of the pull, AFRs in d low 12s

After 3 hours of remote dyno tuning we got 602/549 TQ. We did 11 pulls all 10 minutes apart. IAT at 114 and not budging at all in any pull.

I made couple of Nice clean pulls to 6700 rpms in d heat , runs like a raped Ape on d streets. Climbs the rpms smooth.

Crazy gains, but look at d gains at 5200 rpms
80 hp and almost 80 TQ
Car is a beast, and Torrie is a GURU!!

Dyno sheets in link below

https://flic.kr/p/GToZwh

https://flic.kr/p/HEuevY



I just want to make sure im reading this right....you are saying you made 43 more horsepower and 57 more torque by using a custom tune OVER the ARROW pcm correct? If so, my question is what are the pros/cons of doing it this way? Obviously more power but what about longevity etc.....


I dynoed my car today and made a disappointing 552 Hp and 517 Tq.....no tuning just pulls. My mods are ARH long tube headers, hi flow cats with corsa catback, underdrive pulley and ARROW pcm.

Should i put my stock PCM back in and have it custom tuned or can the ARROW pcm stay in the car and be modified/tuned? Thanks for the help and sorry for all the ignorance here....im kinda new to Vipers.

[Sub Driver]

I just want to make sure im reading this right....you are saying you made 43 more horsepower and 57 more torque by using a custom tune OVER the ARROW pcm correct? If so, my question is what are the pros/cons of doing it this way? Obviously more power but what about longevity etc.....


I dynoed my car today and made a disappointing 552 Hp and 517 Tq.....no tuning just pulls. My mods are ARH long tube headers, hi flow cats with corsa catback, underdrive pulley and ARROW pcm.

Should i put my stock PCM back in and have it custom tuned or can the ARROW pcm stay in the car and be modified/tuned? Thanks for the help and sorry for all the ignorance here....im kinda new to Vipers.

A custom tune will always be better than a canned tune. Just tune the stock PCM.

[v10tt]

I just want to make sure im reading this right....you are saying you made 43 more horsepower and 57 more torque by using a custom tune OVER the ARROW pcm correct? If so, my question is what are the pros/cons of doing it this way? Obviously more power but what about longevity etc.....


I dynoed my car today and made a disappointing 552 Hp and 517 Tq.....no tuning just pulls. My mods are ARH long tube headers, hi flow cats with corsa catback, underdrive pulley and ARROW pcm.



Your numbers are in line with cars with similar mods that I looked at in similar So. Florida weather which is where I live. I checked with another Florida member that had my same mods before the Tune and he was making mid 500s. My Goal from the start was to make 600 rwhp with the bolt ons. After all you have to spend 7-8k installed to get all the bolt ons on the car.

You can see the graphs posted on the links above, you can see my gains comparing Peak numbers, and the gains at 5200 rpms. This was done in the same Dyno , same Day. Actually my IATs were higher on the Custom Torrie's Tune.

So far the car has been running great and the power is there all the time. It pulls much harder and it revs smooth and strong to my new shift point of 6600+ rpms. I was really pleased with it.
I tuned the stock computer, not sure if you can Tune the Arrow, BUT if you work on the Arrow computer you will lose that program.

You can also see results from this other member here:
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13854-Stock-Arrow-Torrie

Hope this helps.

[v10tt]

You can see Torrie's face book pager here:
https://www.facebook.com/UnleashedTuning/

He has tuned a few Vipers.

[dethred]

I want to know if I can, at the very least, modify the IAT tables using HP tuners on the ARROW PCM. Every half mile event I've attended made me deal with high-90's intake temps, and the car felt like it was missing at least 50hp. If I am unable to sell the PCM since it is tied to my VIN, it pulls timing half the year, is less tune-able than a stock ECU, and it voids my warranty, I have officially been let down.

[camarochevy1970]

no, you will lose the arrow config all together

[parabs]

Our package will not work with HP Tuners, and i'm happy with a Winkles tune in our ECU, we have to make these things live everywhere in a ton of different conditions including 91 octane states and at altitude.

I was searching the forums for something else, but this flexibility is one of the reasons I would select Prefix over any other package available.