1/2 Mile Advice

[DEMO MAN]

I want to run a few 1/2 mile events and I'm hoping some of you guys who have done it multiple times could help me out with some advice on best bolt on components for that. Car is 2010 convertible, brand new stock engine ( thanks Alex ), Gen 5 intake, cat deletes, 3" Corsas, but otherwise it's stock. I know first thing should be headers but is one brand better for 1/2 mile/1 mile events over others? I have no interest in turbo, supercharger or NOS, I want to run NA class. I would appreciate any other suggestions that might get me that extra MPH. I have ran one event in Ocala, car did 156.0333 on it's best run that day. I would like to know what others have done in 1/2 mile also. Thanks

[98intrigue]

Ported intake, headers, underdrive pulley, and a tune are all I can think of.

[XSnake]

3.55's and headers.

[Arizona Vipers]

Hoosier A7 autocross tires. These will stick hard without having to be warmed up. If you want to get serious, then heads/cam.

[Steve M]

I want to run a few 1/2 mile events and I'm hoping some of you guys who have done it multiple times could help me out with some advice on best bolt on components for that. Car is 2010 convertible, brand new stock engine ( thanks Alex ), Gen 5 intake, cat deletes, 3" Corsas, but otherwise it's stock. I know first thing should be headers but is one brand better for 1/2 mile/1 mile events over others? I have no interest in turbo, supercharger or NOS, I want to run NA class. I would appreciate any other suggestions that might get me that extra MPH. I have ran one event in Ocala, car did 156.0333 on it's best run that day. I would like to know what others have done in 1/2 mile also. Thanks

I plan on running the 1/2 mile event put on by WannaGoFast in Indiana later this year...I have similar mods to what you are showing (high flow cats, Gen 5 intake manifold, tuned myself with HPTuners), so I'm curious to see what mine runs compared to yours. Do you remember what the approximate conditions were when you ran that fast?


3.55's and headers.

I'm not sure if that would help or hurt performance (the 3.55s that is)...with the stock 3.07s, you would be finishing the 1/2 mile in 4th gear. With 3.55s, you'd be shifting into 5th, and I'm not sure if that would slow you down or not given the 2010s had the better 5th gear ratio (0.80 vs. 0.74 for the earlier cars).

[Mbccenter]

I know one did 190 in the miles with M&M Performance headers. That was with stock intake.

[TrackAire]

I plan on running the 1/2 mile event put on by WannaGoFast in Indiana later this year...I have similar mods to what you are showing (high flow cats, Gen 5 intake manifold, tuned myself with HPTuners), so I'm curious to see what mine runs compared to yours. Do you remember what the approximate conditions were when you ran that fast?



I'm not sure if that would help or hurt performance (the 3.55s that is)...with the stock 3.07s, you would be finishing the 1/2 mile in 4th gear. With 3.55s, you'd be shifting into 5th, and I'm not sure if that would slow you down or not given the 2010s had the better 5th gear ratio (0.80 vs. 0.74 for the earlier cars).

I know the 3.55's hurt me as I had to shift into 5th before the 1/2 mile mark. If roll racing side by side then that extra shift hurts you. I have 3.55's, a lowered 5th and 6th gear ratio trans, ACR-X headers and ported aluminum intake with a Mopar PCM. I would cross the line at 160 mph...didn't matter if I pushed real hard at the start or had a 280 lb passenger with me. After about 12 runs it got a bit boring and I was really beating up my brakes due to the short shut down area. It was a blast and I definitely want to do a mile or 1.5 mile run if the opportunity becomes available.

That said, with the 3.55's and lowered 5th gear the car pulled like crazy once shifted into 5th and was catching quicker cars that had pulled me when they shifted into 4th with higher rpm redlines (like modded Z06's, their stock 5th gear sucks).

[Steve M]

I know the 3.55's hurt me as I had to shift into 5th before the 1/2 mile mark. If roll racing side by side then that extra shift hurts you. I have 3.55's, a lowered 5th and 6th gear ratio trans, ACR-X headers and ported aluminum intake with a Mopar PCM. I would cross the line at 160 mph...didn't matter if I pushed real hard at the start or had a 280 lb passenger with me. After about 12 runs it got a bit boring and I was really beating up my brakes due to the short shut down area. It was a blast and I definitely want to do a mile or 1.5 mile run if the opportunity becomes available.

That said, with the 3.55's and lowered 5th gear the car pulled like crazy once shifted into 5th and was catching quicker cars that had pulled me when they shifted into 4th with higher rpm redlines (like modded Z06's, their stock 5th gear sucks).

Interesting...thanks for the info.

[345s-bspinnin]

Just as with 1/4 mile racing, gearing is key. Keep the stock gearing and pull all the way til redline in 4th. If you think you will run out of gear (about 160mph), get a taller tire and/or get a few extra rpm. That will allow you to hit high 160s. I managed to pull a 169.x mph on my convertible with about 640whp.

Check out some of my 1/2-mile racing threads for videos.

[ViperPete]

Best i could do was 152.33 in my stock Gen V.

5th gear KILLED 1/2 mile racing with my Gen V. Car completely lost steam at the end of the track and stops pulling. David has suggested that i get 3.07 gears so i can stay in fourth. I might just do that. it's a really awkward shift and i ruined several runs because of that.

Viper's are fast. The issue is traction. The Ocala strip had an amazingly bad track to race on. The track is a 30 year old landing strip and the surface is pretty much loosley-glued-together-gravel. I would start off in 2nd gear because i would have to give up 1st every time.

No traction until around 60 then i could hammer it. It also didn't help that it was 33 degrees the entire day.

I cant imagine getting more out of a stock Gen V without tires/gears/power.

Sticky tires David. Get sticky tires.

[Steve M]

Best i could do was 152.33 in my stock Gen V.

5th gear KILLED 1/2 mile racing with my Gen V. Car completely lost steam at the end of the track and stops pulling. David has suggested that i get 3.07 gears so i can stay in fourth. I might just do that. it's a really awkward shift and i ruined several runs because of that.

Viper's are fast. The issue is traction. The Ocala strip had an amazingly bad track to race on. The track is a 30 year old landing strip and the surface is pretty much loosley-glued-together-gravel. I would start off in 2nd gear because i would have to give up 1st every time.

No traction until around 60 then i could hammer it. It also didn't help that it was 33 degrees the entire day.

I cant imagine getting more out of a stock Gen V without tires/gears/power.

Sticky tires David. Get sticky tires.

You could do 3.07s, but that would make 1st gear even longer since they used different ratios compared to the Gen 3/4 cars. You'd really need to swap to 3.07s and a Gen 4 TR-6060 if you wanted to see the benefit...well, unless you really see a need to do 75 MPH in first gear.

[ViperPete]

You could do 3.07s, but that would make 1st gear even longer since they used different ratios compared to the Gen 3/4 cars. You'd really need to swap to 3.07s and a Gen 4 TR-6060 if you wanted to see the benefit...well, unless you really see a need to do 75 MPH in first gear.

I dont think i am going to do a gear change. I want slicks and more power.

I like how the car drives around town etc.

[XSnake]

I know the 3.55's hurt me as I had to shift into 5th before the 1/2 mile mark. If roll racing side by side then that extra shift hurts you. I have 3.55's, a lowered 5th and 6th gear ratio trans, ACR-X headers and ported aluminum intake with a Mopar PCM. I would cross the line at 160 mph...didn't matter if I pushed real hard at the start or had a 280 lb passenger with me. After about 12 runs it got a bit boring and I was really beating up my brakes due to the short shut down area. It was a blast and I definitely want to do a mile or 1.5 mile run if the opportunity becomes available.

That said, with the 3.55's and lowered 5th gear the car pulled like crazy once shifted into 5th and was catching quicker cars that had pulled me when they shifted into 4th with higher rpm redlines (like modded Z06's, their stock 5th gear sucks).

Sorry, I'm a little confused. You started out saying they hurt you. Then at the end you say the cars pulls like crazy?

OP has a 2010 with the revised ratios which is why i suggested gears.

[DEMO MAN]

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments, what I got out of this is:

1-Headers for sure ( Any brand better for 1/2 or 1 mile runs? )
2-Aftermarket Tune ( Any recommendations on this, I've tried the Arrow PCM, I used it on 1/2 mile in Ocala )
3-Sticky Tires/Drag Radials
4-Gearing ( stock to 3.55 ) I would like to stay in 4th if possible, anyone want to sell a set of those unicorn 3.33s?
5-Underdrive Pulley

Here's a few other things I've heard or thought about outside of forum:
1-Remove Weight ( been told to remove everything not needed from trunk carpet to passenger seat and other stuff )
2-Aero ( had others say remove wipers, mirrors, and tape/close up every seam/opening possible, they did say it's a lot more benefit in the mile but it would make a small difference in the 1/2, I'm curious if closing the nose would be detrimental to cooling even in that short run, any thoughts? )
3-Soft top vs hard top? ( I have one and tried both at Ocala 1/2, fastest run was with soft top ( 156.0333 vs 154.XXX ) but that was later in the day when it had warmed up some )
4-Lowering the Car ( any aero advantage of doing this? )
5-Remove Autoform TA style spoiler ( would it be aero advantage with it off? )
6-Should I be looking at lighter wheels, flywheel or any other rotating mass?

Any other thoughts on "go faster" that you guys have I would appreciate hearing. Thanks

[DEMO MAN]

[QUOTE=Steve M;224774]I plan on running the 1/2 mile event put on by WannaGoFast in Indiana later this year...I have similar mods to what you are showing (high flow cats, Gen 5 intake manifold, tuned myself with HPTuners), so I'm curious to see what mine runs compared to yours. Do you remember what the approximate conditions were when you ran that fast?

It was really cold the morning we got to track, 28 degrees when I made the first few runs, car had almost no traction until 60+. It warmed up as the day went on, I didn't follow the temps later in the day but I heard others mention mid 30s. It was a very sunny so the track was probably warmer as the day went on and my times improved with almost each run. I'm sure it was a combination of me learning and the temps rising. I would like to hear the results when you run yours, I have to think you will be close in results to mine unless the weather differs greatly. Did you dyno stock and after your changes? I ran an Arrow PCM and I am interested in the advantages of HPT over the Arrow. Good luck with your runs

[Steve M]

It was really cold the morning we got to track, 28 degrees when I made the first few runs, car had almost no traction until 60+. It warmed up as the day went on, I didn't follow the temps later in the day but I heard others mention mid 30s. It was a very sunny so the track was probably warmer as the day went on and my times improved with almost each run. I'm sure it was a combination of me learning and the temps rising. I would like to hear the results when you run yours, I have to think you will be close in results to mine unless the weather differs greatly. Did you dyno stock and after your changes? I ran an Arrow PCM and I am interested in the advantages of HPT over the Arrow. Good luck with your runs

Gotcha on the weather...that's damn good weather for making power. There's no way it'll be that cold in Indiana come October...around here, it could still be in the 80s, or it could be in the 50s.

I've not done any dyno runs stock or otherwise with my setup...I do all of my tuning on the street (I have a full time wideband O2 sensor, so everything I need to tune is already in the car). I know there have been quite a few guys in FL that have been disappointed with the Arrow tune, especially when the weather gets hot. If you haven't already, take a look at this thread in the Gen 5 section:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/14166-Full-Bolt-on-Viper-with-Arrow-tune-bs-Torrie-McPhail-s-HP-tuners

I'm sure there wouldn't be that much of a difference if the weather was cooler, but Florida isn't exactly known for a lengthy cold season, and that was no small difference in power output.

[7TH_SIGN]

Boost... A lot of it...

[TrackAire]

Sorry, I'm a little confused. You started out saying they hurt you. Then at the end you say the cars pulls like crazy?

OP has a 2010 with the revised ratios which is why i suggested gears.

It hurt me when racing cars like modified Z06's with their 7200 plus rpm type shifts. Roll racing I'd shift into fifth and they were a little ahead of me still in fourth and able to hold it until the half mile mark....but my car starts to pull like crazy and I'm actually catching up to them at a very fast pace, but often it wasn't enough to get to the half mile line first. If it was a 3/4 mile or 1 mile race against the same modified Z06 that just beat me to the half mile, I think they would get raped as soon as they shifted into 5th compared to my lowered trans ratio's and 3.55's.

What surprised me was stock C6 ZR1's runs.....I thought we would be pretty close but it was easy to put 15 to 20 car lengths on them in the the 1/2 mile....I just thought they would have been quicker. Maybe the multiple runs was heat soaking them?? As a testament to the Viper, you could hot lap the car with no degradation in trap speeds. A lot of modified cars with either aftermarket superchargers or turbos had to be parked to be cooled off after one run. Yeah they might be fast, but one run and they were done for the next 30 minutes.

[DEMO MAN]

Gotcha on the weather...that's damn good weather for making power. There's no way it'll be that cold in Indiana come October...around here, it could still be in the 80s, or it could be in the 50s.

I've not done any dyno runs stock or otherwise with my setup...I do all of my tuning on the street (I have a full time wideband O2 sensor, so everything I need to tune is already in the car). I know there have been quite a few guys in FL that have been disappointed with the Arrow tune, especially when the weather gets hot. If you haven't already, take a look at this thread in the Gen 5 section:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/14166-Full-Bolt-on-Viper-with-Arrow-tune-bs-Torrie-McPhail-s-HP-tuners

I'm sure there wouldn't be that much of a difference if the weather was cooler, but Florida isn't exactly known for a lengthy cold season, and that was no small difference in power output.

Prior to Ocala run my best dyno was 569 HP/556 Torque with the add ons and Arrow PCM. I don't have a baseline prior to that. I really think the HPTuner might be a better option based on the comments I read in the link you sent. I'm not very far away from their shop so maybe after a few more mods I will drop it off and see what they can do for it. Thanks for the information.

[Ninjakris]

I run the timing system for wannagofast and have sent thousands of cars down the runway. 345's-BSPINNIN is right in regards to the gearing (gen III/IV). 5th falls on its face unless your well over 700whp. If your staying N/A, headers (no particular brand) will net you +/- 1mph. A good tune is worth 1-2mph. Your pretty much going as fast as your going to be going unless you go with a cam or power adder.

For reference, in Ocala, I ran a 154.xx in my Headers/Arrow PCM gen V. Your doing well.

[Steve M]

I run the timing system for wannagofast and have sent thousands of cars down the runway. 345's-BSPINNIN is right in regards to the gearing (gen III/IV). 5th falls on its face unless your well over 700whp. If your staying N/A, headers (no particular brand) will net you +/- 1mph. A good tune is worth 1-2mph. Your pretty much going as fast as your going to be going unless you go with a cam or power adder.

For reference, in Ocala, I ran a 154.xx in my Headers/Arrow PCM gen V. Your doing well.

Are you going to be running the timing system for the event being held in Indiana in mid-October?

[Ninjakris]

Yeah. I'll be in Indiana. I havnt personally seen the runway, but I hear it's nice.

[ViperPete]

For reference, in Ocala, I ran a 154.xx in my Headers/Arrow PCM gen V. Your doing well.

Damn..... so I really did wrangle every MPH i could out of a stock Viper then.

The only think i can think of is we need to be able to stomp 1st gear so we can utilize more of the track. TIRES!!

[Steve M]

Yeah. I'll be in Indiana. I havnt personally seen the runway, but I hear it's nice.

Cool...I've never been over there. This will be my first half mile event. Just planning to run one day (Sunday) at this point.

[DEMO MAN]

I run the timing system for wannagofast and have sent thousands of cars down the runway. 345's-BSPINNIN is right in regards to the gearing (gen III/IV). 5th falls on its face unless your well over 700whp. If your staying N/A, headers (no particular brand) will net you +/- 1mph. A good tune is worth 1-2mph. Your pretty much going as fast as your going to be going unless you go with a cam or power adder.

For reference, in Ocala, I ran a 154.xx in my Headers/Arrow PCM gen V. Your doing well.

I was hoping to do enough to beat the Corvettes next time ( 162.XXX on Sunday and 169.XXX on Saturday ), I was 5th on Sunday in the NA class at 156.0333, the 169.XXX would be a tough number to hit without major work but I was hoping the 162.XXX was a doable speed. I think I was beside your mom on one run ( her first if I remember), I was looking over and thinking it was you, and I'm sweating getting everything right cause I figured u had been down the track more than me along with all the other events you have done. Anyway we left and I got to second gear, then went straight to 5th, in the process of all that I'm shifting back to 4th, then 3rd and starting again, somehow I turned the wipers on wide open and I think the turn signal also. It was quite entertaining but I believe I still managed a 142.XXX out of that screw up. I really enjoyed the 1/2 mile event and looking forward to the next one.

[DEMO MAN]

Just as with 1/4 mile racing, gearing is key. Keep the stock gearing and pull all the way til redline in 4th. If you think you will run out of gear (about 160mph), get a taller tire and/or get a few extra rpm. That will allow you to hit high 160s. I managed to pull a 169.x mph on my convertible with about 640whp.

Check out some of my 1/2-mile racing threads for videos.

Impressive 1/2 mile and 1 mile speeds, I am hoping for a 162.XXX out of mine but I'm wondering at this point if it's going to take heads/cam to get there, that's more than I want to spend. I had seen a speed calculator that u plugged in values for transmission, rpms, wheel size, etc to determine top speed in a given gear. Do you know where I can find that? If I remember correctly I was in the 5000+ range on RPM as I crossed the line, would there be a lot of benefit in crossing at a rpm closer to redline? Which I assume is possible by altering gearing in either transmission or differential or rear tire size. Thanks

[Steve M]

Give this a whirl:

http://xse.com/leres/bin/gearratio?title=SS+%23670+with+MM6+manual+and+3.73 +gears&rpm=6400&mph=55&gear1=2.26&gear2=1.58&gear3=1.19&gear4=1.00&gear5=0.77&gear6=0.63&reverse=2.90&axle=3.55&diameter=24.94&circumference=78.35&revs=809&tire=wheel&section=355&profile=30&wheel=19

It should already have the correct values in there for your car as far as trans gear ratios, tire size, and rear axle ratio. You can play around with any of the numbers to see what kind of difference you'd be looking at by making some changes.

[DEMO MAN]

Give this a whirl:

http://xse.com/leres/bin/gearratio?title=SS+%23670+with+MM6+manual+and+3.73 +gears&rpm=6400&mph=55&gear1=2.26&gear2=1.58&gear3=1.19&gear4=1.00&gear5=0.77&gear6=0.63&reverse=2.90&axle=3.55&diameter=24.94&circumference=78.35&revs=809&tire=wheel§ion=355&profile=30&wheel=19

It should already have the correct values in there for your car as far as trans gear ratios, tire size, and rear axle ratio. You can play around with any of the numbers to see what kind of difference you'd be looking at by making some changes.

Thanks, I've plugged in a lot of different combinations already. I know aero will come into play at some point so I'm trying to determine all the factors based on my only run on the 1/2 to compare reality to the theoretical. Problem is I only have part of the numbers needed so some of it is a guess. I see you have HPTuner set up, can you tell me how it does for you compared to stock or other set ups if you have used any others. Thanks

[345s-bspinnin]

..... would there be a lot of benefit in crossing at a rpm closer to redline? Which I assume is possible by altering gearing in either transmission or differential or rear tire size. Thanks

Yes (most of the time), crossing right at redline is optimal most of the time (unless you are in diesel or any other high torque low revving engine). And yes, the gearing is typically altered in the transmission, rear end, or just a taller/shorter tire.

[ViperPete]

Yes (most of the time), crossing right at redline is optimal most of the time (unless you are in diesel or any other high torque low revving engine). And yes, the gearing is typically altered in the transmission, rear end, or just a taller/shorter tire.

How tall rear tire would i need to simulate a 3.07 rear end? So i can hit the 1/2 mile mark at the top of 4th?

[345s-bspinnin]

How tall rear tire would i need to simulate a 3.07 rear end? So i can hit the 1/2 mile mark at the top of 4th?

I am using a 28" tall rear tire. I have hit 169.x at the 1/2 -mile at top of 4th gear without hitting the limiter (redline set at 6400rpm) on the stock 3.07 gear.

Here is the video from my latest runs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LpBOuGkwFQ

Direct Link:

https://youtu.be/3LpBOuGkwFQ

[ViperPete]

So what tire size would i need for the stock rear wheels?

I have 3.55 gear tho

[ViperPete]

I am using a 28" tall rear tire. I have hit 169.x at the 1/2 -mile at top of 4th gear without hitting the limiter (redline set at 6400rpm) on the stock 3.07 gear.

Here is the video from my latest runs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LpBOuGkwFQ


Direct Link:

https://youtu.be/3LpBOuGkwFQ

Probably would have hit 170 if you power shifted.

[Steve M]

I see you have HPTuner set up, can you tell me how it does for you compared to stock or other set ups if you have used any others. Thanks

I personally like it, but I've been using their software for the better part of the last 12 years or so, so I'm fairly familiar with it. I'm hoping to find out how it does this coming October when I take it to the 1/2 mile up in my neck of the woods...so far, I've only used HPTuners, so I can't really compare it to the Arrow PCM. It does make a big difference in how the car behaves...there's definitely a lot of power left on the table with the stock tune. I just added the Gen 5 intake manifold to my setup, so I need to get the WOT fueling dialed back in (it pushed it rich about a half point).

[Arizona Vipers]

You have the TA style spoiler on the back? That's 316 lbs downforce by 160mph, so yeah, it's killing you.
You mention removing weight, that doesn't help you much on these high speed events, not like road racing. It's more coefficient of drag vs horsepower.
And like I said earlier, Hoosier A7's will let you launch at any RPM you want. I launch my nearly 800rwhp Ford GT at 5K RPM's with ZERO spin on 345/35-18 A7's and go high 170's in the half.

[DEMO MAN]

You have the TA style spoiler on the back? That's 316 lbs downforce by 160mph, so yeah, it's killing you.
You mention removing weight, that doesn't help you much on these high speed events, not like road racing. It's more coefficient of drag vs horsepower.
And like I said earlier, Hoosier A7's will let you launch at any RPM you want. I launch my nearly 800rwhp Ford GT at 5K RPM's with ZERO spin on 345/35-18 A7's and go high 170's in the half.

I definitely will pull the spoiler off for the next event and look for those tires to help me get to speed quicker. I keep wondering what else could be done to improve aero in the 1/2 that would be beneficial. I keep looking at the nose and thinking about closing it off partially or fully without overheating the car. I'm a big fan of the GT, I attached a pic of my granddaughter with it, she's trying her best to make the engine noise. Every year we do a pic of her and a different exotic car on her birthday, this is her 3rd bday.

18105

[ViperPete]

Do those Hoosier A7's fit stock Viper rear wheels????

[FrgMstr]

Do those Hoosier A7's fit stock Viper rear wheels????

With your RWHP, you don't need to go Hoosier IMO. However....

You are going to want to go with an 18" rear that is 13" wide so you can slip on 345s if you want to go that wide.

Something to think about, I have run the front stock size tires in the rear for mile events. I put Corsas on for TX Mile last time and they hook up very well at 625rwhp. I did this to give me a shorter tire/gear reduction however for the mile run.

Listen to Andres above, these races are more about gearing than anything else....besides horsepower of course.

18141

[DEMO MAN]

With your RWHP, you don't need to go Hoosier IMO. However....

You are going to want to go with an 18" rear that is 13" wide so you can slip on 345s if you want to go that wide.

Something to think about, I have run the front stock size tires in the rear for mile events. I put Corsas on for TX Mile last time and they hook up very well at 625rwhp. I did this to give me a shorter tire/gear reduction however for the mile run.

Listen to Andres above, these races are more about gearing than anything else....besides horsepower of course.

18141

I really appreciate all the advice especially from you guys that I know have done a lot of 1/2 and 1 mile events. I think the lack of traction for my first 1/2 mile event was effected by the 28 degrees that morning and my lack of experience. I got a lot better as the temps climbed and I had made a few passes. I do hope to have 600 RWHP by the time I go back in Jan 2017 so maybe a sticky tire would help. I am curious what you would consider the perfect differential ratio for the 1/2 would be with keeping the stock T6060 trans, if you could have any combo you wanted from 3.07 and up what would it be? I do realize there's limited ratios for our cars, this is meant to be a hypothetical question. Thanks,

[FrgMstr]

I really appreciate all the advice especially from you guys that I know have done a lot of 1/2 and 1 mile events. I think the lack of traction for my first 1/2 mile event was effected by the 28 degrees that morning and my lack of experience. I got a lot better as the temps climbed and I had made a few passes. I do hope to have 600 RWHP by the time I go back in Jan 2017 so maybe a sticky tire would help. I am curious what you would consider the perfect differential ratio for the 1/2 would be with keeping the stock T6060 trans, if you could have any combo you wanted from 3.07 and up what would it be? I do realize there's limited ratios for our cars, this is meant to be a hypothetical question. Thanks,

28F and summer tires is a horrible mix. Most of these summer tires are sketchy at best below 50F. I have found the Corsas to be stickier than the Mich Super Sports even at my HP. I would suggest that most of your traction issues were due to low temperatures.

I was out at the WannaGoFast event with Andres here in Texas that he is referencing above. I pulled down three runs of 163mph and the traction at the slow end of the runway was horrible that day. I was running stock Corsa tires out back. Car has stock 3.07 rear diff and never came out of 4th, but close the redline. (I bought a 2010 ACR-X tranny and put in mine with the revised 5th which helps at the Mile assuredly.) So the stock setup is very good for 1/2 mile events. Not like you are going to grab any huge gains even with tweaking. A little shorter tire should help, but using the fronts as rears, 25" tall, would put you out of fourth gear WAY too soon. You can see in the video at the bottom that we are well short of the 1/2 mile sign with that 25" tire, which gives us an approximate 3.33 rear end if on a stock size rear tire.

18142

WannaGoFast 163.63 run.


https://youtu.be/acVvT-b0Na4

TX Mile 191 run. (And no that is not me driving and missing 2nd gear. :) ) You can hear the car bump the rev limiter (6600rpm) right across the line. I ran 191.4 the next run and hit the rev limiter right before the 1 mile line. So listen to Andres on all this. He has more experience at making the best happen with what power level you have. He was my mentor on all this and I have not seen him be wrong yet.

https://youtu.be/_g1H6urOo_4

[DEMO MAN]

Impressive videos FrgMstr, I have the Texas Mile on my bucket list. Again I appreciate all the advice and I will let you guys know how the next 1/2 mile goes. I'm working on headers, HPTuner, and a few other things right now. Is your Viper lowered? I will be happy with anything over 160 but hoping for a 162.

[FrgMstr]

Impressive videos FrgMstr, I have the Texas Mile on my bucket list. Again I appreciate all the advice and I will let you guys know how the next 1/2 mile goes. I'm working on headers, HPTuner, and a few other things right now. Is your Viper lowered? I will be happy with anything over 160 but hoping for a 162.

I have MCS singles on my car from Woodhouse. These are adjustable for height. Last time at the Mile we ended up dropping the front very low down, do so netted us an extra 1 to 2 MPH.

Here is how it sets for track use. You want 3/4 inch delta between front and back to keep the proper rake. Mark at Woodhouse is the guy to talk to about the suspension. One of the best mods I ever made to the car in terms of handling.

http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/MCS-Lowered-1.jpg

(New TA sway bars should be in this week. Too much body roll in the corners.)

http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/NTX-VCA-AUTOX.jpg


I have full updated mod list I can share out with you on Google docs if you want to PM me your gmail.

[fuggles]

How tall rear tire would i need to simulate a 3.07 rear end? So i can hit the 1/2 mile mark at the top of 4th?

3.07 is 15% taller than the 3.55. So you would need a 31.5 inch tire.


I have MCS singles on my car from Woodhouse. These are adjustable for height. Last time at the Mile we ended up dropping the front very low down, do so netted us an extra 1 to 2 MPH.


What are the spring rates on your setup? Yea looks like a lot of roll.

[FrgMstr]

What are the spring rates on your setup? Yea looks like a lot of roll.

500/800, but to that point the picture above was taken on stock suspension, not with MCS. Still has too much roll though.

This is a picture of me gathering up after taking a bad line at CoTA with MCS and stock sway bars. Granted I was doing over 110mph there if I recall correctly, max 130mph.

18147

[sanguissaevus]

This thread shall not die yet. Im still trying to understand why 3.55 wont work better than the 3.07. If one has the original crappy 4th and 6th gear then it makes sense to avoid the shift to 5th. However, if one has revised 5th and 6th (.81 & .63) then wouldnt the detriment of shifting into an extra gear be worth it considering the first 4 gears the car would be pulling much harder and therefore trap faster with quicker ET?

[FrgMstr]

Here is the formula we used to break 190mph in my car putting down about 625rwhp. It is bolt-on only, stock long block. We used a smaller tire size in the rear to give us the gearing we wanted, which was an effective 3.33 rear gear on stock tires. This is with a 2010 ACR-X transmission that I put in the car to get my 5th gear where I wanted it. The rev limiter bumped to 6600.
18771
With my setup here, we are just bumping the rev limiter in 5th at the 1 mile line.

Here is what you are suggesting considering a stock tire size.
18772
At ~600rwhp, you would have to roll all the way through 5th gear and then into 6th to break 186mph. At the horsepower noted, you simply do not have enough track to pull that off. Of course if you had a buttload more HP, then sure. :) But for a bolt-on car, I think you are going to run out of runway to get where you think you might want to be. But all that said, I would be curious to see exactly how that might work out for you. I am not sure that I have talked to anyone that has run the mile with a 3.55 rear end in a stock Viper.

My best in the mile with stock 2008 transmission and 3.07 rear, 600rwhp, and stock size tires was 186.

[sanguissaevus]

Sorry for the formating. This is what i had in mind below.


Tire diameter (in.):


27.5

RPM:


6200

1st Gear Ratio:


2.66

2nd Gear Ratio:


1.78

3rd Gear Ratio:


1.30

4th Gear Ratio:


1.00

5th Gear Ratio:


.81

6th Gear Ratio:


.63

Final Drive Ratio:


3.55



Calculate


1st Gear (mph):
54

2nd Gear (mph):
80


3rd Gear (mph):
110


4th Gear (mph):


143


5th Gear (mph):


176


6th Gear (mph):
227


I would think altering 6th gear is key for full mile but it will take you to 227. Im assuming a 345-35-18 drag radial which is 27.5". I would think the shift at 176 from 5th would be worth it no? Thats with 6200rpm mind you. If one went to a 3.73 gear with 26inch (345-30-18) tires 6th would be at 205mph at 6200rpm.

In regards again to 3.55, in the half mile you would get to use almost all of 5th with a strong heads cam car. 345spinnin is at 169 so this would give him the room to get the record of 174 by utilizing 5th. Im thinking the added thrust from the 3.55 will push his car past 169mph into the 170s.

So, in regards to my point of thrust, wouldnt the added thrust in the first four gears make this useful?

[sanguissaevus]

I guess what im getting caught up on is the added "thrust" one gets from tightening up the gear ratios. I know its not added power but it has the effect of just that. The only thing to hash out is if the gained thrust out weighs the added time to shift an extra gear or two.

[FrgMstr]

I guess what im getting caught up on is the added "thrust" one gets from tightening up the gear ratios. I know its not added power but it has the effect of just that. The only thing to hash out is if the gained thrust out weighs the added time to shift an extra gear or two.

Looking forward to see your results.

[sanguissaevus]

Not trying to be negatively critical. What i am trying to do is flush a build variable that is facing myself right now. Yall are doing a kick ass job out there. I am subscribed to 345's youtube. I love watching him blow past seamingly more powerful cars. Im in the middle of a heads cam build myself. I have replaced my entire driveline except the diff and final drive and it is on the table now to decide if i want to change the gearing. Anywho, im feeling i should go ahead and do it and report my findings. The only thing thats throwing my logic train is the dude that said he has done this already and said he was pulling hard by 5th. My question to him is that if he still had the 3.07 wouldnt he have been pulled on even harder in the first 4 gears by those modded z06s? So, in other words, if he goes back to 3.07 wont his results worsen?
Again, no disrespect to anyone, but this is what i use the forums for. To flush out questions i have and try and ensure i dont make costly choices that i later will want to revert back. Looking forward to more vids by the way.

[FrgMstr]

Not trying to be negatively critical. What i am trying to do is flush a build variable that is facing myself right now. Yall are doing a kick ass job out there. I am subscribed to 345's youtube. I love watching him blow past seamingly more powerful cars. Im in the middle of a heads cam build myself. I have replaced my entire driveline except the diff and final drive and it is on the table now to decide if i want to change the gearing. Anywho, im feeling i should go ahead and do it and report my findings. The only thing thats throwing my logic train is the dude that said he has done this already and said he was pulling hard by 5th. My question to him is that if he still had the 3.07 wouldnt he have been pulled on even harder in the first 4 gears by those modded z06s? So, in other words, if he goes back to 3.07 wont his results worsen?
Again, no disrespect to anyone, but this is what i use the forums for. To flush out questions i have and try and ensure i dont make costly choices that i later will want to revert back. Looking forward to more vids by the way.

Andres and I talked about this at length a few times and I think both of us came away thinking the 3.33 rear was perfect for the mile. Might PM him and see if he has any input on this thread. I know there are some guys on here that have 3.55 rears in there car and have done half mile runs I am almost certain in Gen V cars. Of course those trannies have .77/.63 5th and 6th, with the 15-16 cars going back to the .5 6th.

Looking at my video in the half mile, at the end mark it looks like I was pulling about 6200rpms. So in terms of power, I could have probably run a little bit taller tire than stock and done a bit better.

For sure you can always change that rear end later to 3.55 if you feel as though you need to.

I had 3.55s in my Gen III car and like those at that power level, but I always felt the 3.55s would be a bit much over the 600rwhp mark when it comes to keeping it hooked up.