TA Rotors vs. StopTech Rotors on a GTS

[One Viper Bite]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to upgrade the brakes on my 2013 GTS but am curious to hear others experience with the TA rotors vs. the track pack StopTech rotors. Any preference? And are the TA rotors plug and play or does it require additional modification?

Thanks in advance!

[ViperGeorge]

The TA rotors use the same calipers as standard brakes. They have a wider wipe area which improves heat dissipation. They also use a pad that protrudes out of the bottom of the caliper to cover the wider wipe area. They do not increase braking but help dissipate the heat better. The only way to increase braking capability is to 1) increase diameter of the rotor, 2) increase the coefficient of friction of the pads (race pads), 3) increase line pressure at the caliper (requires a complete brake redesign), or 4) improve tire traction (slicks). If the StopTechs you are considering are the same dimensions as the stock rotors then the TA system would be an improvement.

[Voice of Reason]

Actual TA rotors are expensive vs the StopTechs. And they're heavy. Unless you're an endurance road racer get the StopTechs.

[One Viper Bite]

The TA rotors use the same calipers as standard brakes. They have a wider wipe area which improves heat dissipation. They also use a pad that protrudes out of the bottom of the caliper to cover the wider wipe area. They do not increase braking but help dissipate the heat better. The only way to increase braking capability is to 1) increase diameter of the rotor, 2) increase the coefficient of friction of the pads (race pads), 3) increase line pressure at the caliper (requires a complete brake redesign), or 4) improve tire traction (slicks). If the StopTechs you are considering are the same dimensions as the stock rotors then the TA system would be an improvement.

I have the solid rotors and am mainly concerned with fade. I've done a few canyon runs (no track days yet) and have already experienced fade and pulsating on the solid rotors. Wondering if there is a noticeable difference between the TA rotors and the track pack StopTechs. So I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both and can recommend one or the other. Eventually, it would be cool to upgrade to to the ACR 6 pistons but I don't see that being necessary for a long time since I'm still getting to know the car and haven't tracked it enough to explore the limits.

Also, I have Venom wheels. Will the TA rotors fit without issue underneath them or will I need Sidewinders?

[esm_viper]

I've got the Stoptech rotors that come stock on 2015 GT's. I had 1 track day at COTA and had brake fade on the 1st session of the day. I had the stock pads and Castrol SRF fluid. I've already bought some Carbotech race pads and ACR cooling ducts but haven't been back to the track yet. If your rotors are still in good shape, maybe try some race pads first.

[Arizona Vipers]

I've got the track pack Stop Tech's on my '13 and push the car hard on the track and have never experienced any brake fade. The Stop Tech's are also very light, I think there's a 60-70 lbs weight savings total with these. Maybe some else here has exact weights.

[Arizona Vipers]

I've got the Stoptech rotors that come stock on 2015 GT's. I had 1 track day at COTA and had brake fade on the 1st session of the day.

How old was the fluid? New?

[KB Viper]

check this thread
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13807-Front-6-pot-Caliper-Brake-Kit-Upgrade

Hi guys,

I'm looking to upgrade the brakes on my 2013 GTS but am curious to hear others experience with the TA rotors vs. the track pack StopTech rotors. Any preference? And are the TA rotors plug and play or does it require additional modification?

Thanks in advance!

[Dr.Ron]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I got my 14 GTS 2+ weeks ago. It has the Stoptech rotors.
How do they differ from the TA and track pack rotors?
Are the pads different among the 3 also?

Thanks!

Ron

[One Viper Bite]

check this thread
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13807-Front-6-pot-Caliper-Brake-Kit-Upgrade

Yupp! Already following it, but like I said, this is something I don't see happening until later. I'd have to upgrade wheels to fit the 6 pistons and I'm nowhere near the limits of this car yet. I feel like once I get on the track, I'll be able to seriously push the limits but with the solid rotors I have now already showing fade and pulsating during canyon runs, I have a feeling at the track I won't be able to push very hard for very long so I wanted to start with a basic rotors + pad upgrade first.

[mnc2886]

Yupp! Already following it, but like I said, this is something I don't see happening until later. I'd have to upgrade wheels to fit the 6 pistons and I'm nowhere near the limits of this car yet. I feel like once I get on the track, I'll be able to seriously push the limits but with the solid rotors I have now already showing fade and pulsating during canyon runs, I have a feeling at the track I won't be able to push very hard for very long so I wanted to start with a basic rotors + pad upgrade first.

Andy at Viper Exhange has a set of rotors that they designed. I'll let him elaborate on it though. Viper Exhange is a good group to look at. They have serious track time and R&D into everything they sell.

[One Viper Bite]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I got my 14 GTS 2+ weeks ago. It has the Stoptech rotors.
How do they differ from the TA and track pack rotors?
Are the pads different among the 3 also?

Thanks!

Ron

The 2 piece StopTech rotors are the Track Pack rotors. The TA rotors are 5mm wider than the StopTech Track Packs and much thicker which also means they are heavier. I'm trying to decide between the 2. I want to know if the 5 mm and extra weight makes a big difference in the endurance of the brakes during tracking. If so, the extra unsprung weight and the cost would be justified.

[One Viper Bite]

Andy at Viper Exhange has a set of rotors that they designed. I'll let him elaborate on it though. Viper Exhange is a good group to look at. They have serious track time and R&D into everything they sell.

Doesn't Andy's package require the 6 piston caliper upgrade to accommodate the 380mm rotors in the front?

[Arizona Vipers]

I feel like once I get on the track, I'll be able to seriously push the limits but with the solid rotors I have now already showing fade and pulsating during canyon runs, I have a feeling at the track I won't be able to push very hard for very long so I wanted to start with a basic rotors + pad upgrade first.

Unless you are in the top 1% of 1% of drivers in the world you will not reach the limits of the Stop Techs. On your canyon runs if you experienced fade, it was the fluid, not the rotors overheating. I'm hitting 158mph on straights, slamming on the brakes going into tight corners, over and over and over and have never felt any fade. I bleed my brake fluid at the start of every track day.
If I were you, I would ask very specifically if anyone else running these Stop Tech's hard on the track, with fresh race brake fluid has ever experienced any brake fade whatsoever.... Whoever says yes, I would love to follow behind them because I know they will make me a much faster driver!

When I first started hitting the track 1.5 years ago, I posted about what I thought were my brakes fading and it turned out it was my brake fluid and I actually recanted my post about my brakes fading to not make Stop Tech look bad.

[One Viper Bite]

Unless you are in the top 1% of 1% of drivers in the world you will not reach the limits of the Stop Techs. On your canyon runs if you experienced fade, it was the fluid, not the rotors overheating. I'm hitting 158mph on straights, slamming on the brakes going into tight corners, over and over and over and have never felt any fade. I bleed my brake fluid at the start of every track day.
If I were you, I would ask very specifically if anyone else running these Stop Tech's hard on the track, with fresh race brake fluid has ever experienced any brake fade whatsoever.... Whoever says yes, I would love to follow behind them because I know they will make me a much faster driver!

When I first started hitting the track 1.5 years ago, I posted about what I thought were my brakes fading and it turned out it was my brake fluid and I actually recanted my post about my brakes fading to not make Stop Tech look bad.

Hey man...I don't think you're reading my posts closely enough. I DO NOT have the StopTechs. I have the base, steel, single piece, non-slotted or drilled rotors. I really don't think the brake fluid can get hot enough to fade on my canyon runs. If that were the case, I feel like we'd be seeing a lot more complaints about the standard brake fluid that comes in our cars, which I have not seen so much of on the forums. I really think that the base steel rotors just aren't up to par here.

Again, I am debating which of the two I should upgrade to...the StopTechs or the TA rotors. I don't think a fluid change is necessary at this stage.

[Arizona Vipers]

Hey man...I don't think you're reading my posts closely enough. I DO NOT have the StopTechs. I have the base, steel, single piece, non-slotted or drilled rotors. I really don't think the brake fluid can get hot enough to fade on my canyon runs. If that were the case, I feel like we'd be seeing a lot more complaints about the standard brake fluid that comes in our cars, which I have not seen so much of on the forums. I really think that the base steel rotors just aren't up to par here.

Again, I am debating which of the two I should upgrade to...the StopTechs or the TA rotors. I don't think a fluid change is necessary at this stage.

ahhhhh, well I think it would be very similar with the base brakes as well. A couple hard runs at your brake's limits and your brake fluid is gonna be toast.
The brake fluid WILL cook long before your brakes. I have learned this the hard way. No matter what brakes you are running, you will cook your fluid fast. I got my rotors to 800* on my first track event and had zero fade. But the next session I went flying off the track. It took some research to learn i had cooked my fluid. If anyone is tracking a Viper hard, the fluid has to be changed at the LEAST every 2nd track day, but I highly recommend every track morning. I'm sure all track rats here will agree regardless of what rotors they are running.

[Dr.Ron]

Ok, So there is only one stoptec rotor for the car then, and it's the track pack?
My rotors ARE slotted, but I didn't think I had what I've seen listed here as a "track pack." But my rotors ARE stoptechs.

[Bill Pemberton]

The Track Pack was only on 2013s ( consisted of lightweight Sidewinder II rims , Stoptech Rotors , and the Corsa Pirellis). For 2014 all GTSs had the Stoptech Rotors ( and you could order the Sidewinders and Corsas ) , and the Track Pack Option was no longer available on a base SRT ( though you could order the tires and the wheels still ). Frankly , as noted, in most cases the Stoptech Rotors will do very well, and often the benefit of better brake fluid and a more race oriented brake pad will alleviate any issue.

[esm_viper]

How old was the fluid? New?

It was new fluid. I was getting up to 150ish on the back stretch and 130 on the front. I'm sure that I won't have any issues after a pad swap and another brake fluid flush. I'm taking the car to Andy at Viper Exchange this summer to make sure the brake system is good before I go back to COTA.

[Dr.Ron]

Hey Bill!
So I have the Sidewinders II's & the Stoptechs (Pirelli Zeros though), so I have most of the track pack then anyway.

[One Viper Bite]

Ok, it sounds like I'm going to go ahead and give the StopTechs a try with some Corsa's. I really wanted to know if the TA rotors were significantly better before I spent the money but doesn't seem like anyone has experience with both.

[ViperPete]

My 2013 GTS has the regular blank rotors. I hate them. They are already warped and pulsate like hell.

I'm going to get a set of Stoptech drilled/slotted rotors in a couple weeks

1. Because they are inexpensive
2. They look cool
3. They are inexpensive.

Nuff said. lol

[Bill Pemberton]

Get slotted only ---drilled are useless and often crack if used on the track. Assume you are getting one piece as two piece are not inexpensive.

[ACRucrazy]

Ok, it sounds like I'm going to go ahead and give the StopTechs a try with some Corsa's. I really wanted to know if the TA rotors were significantly better before I spent the money but doesn't seem like anyone has experience with both.

The Gen IV ACR ran StopTechs all around. These are the same rotors that came on the Gen V track pack cars and GTS. (2 piece, gold hat)
The Gen IV ACR-X ran Brembo fronts (2 piece, black hat) and kept the StopTech rears. The Brembo fronts are a few pounds heavier, thicker, but stand up prolonged/heavy track use better than the StopTechs.
The Gen V TA has the Brembos all the way around (same as the ACR-X front). Again, these will stand up to the track use better, however you are going to pay a weight penalty per rotor and a weight reduction in your pocketbook over the StopTechs.

Note there are the standard aftermarket StopTechs avail, with the black hats cheaper than OEM. These do not have the zinc plating, the OEM (gold hat) rotors have this plating. This helps prevent the rust ring in the area the pad does not hit and the hat. The TA rotors also do not have the zinc plating, so expect the rust ring between your hat and pad.

Both are great and a welcomed improvement over the standard 1 piece rotors. If you want to lose 6-8 lbs (if my memory is correct) per rotor and drive your car on the street, get the StopTechs. If you will be tracking it often and have the funds to pay white a bit more for the Brembos, get the TA rotors as they are about $1,300 each full price at the dealer.

Other options have come about from RB & VE to consider too.

[ViperPete]

Get slotted only ---drilled are useless and often crack if used on the track. Assume you are getting one piece as two piece are not inexpensive.

I don't plan to ever track the Viper.

When I buy an ACR on the other hand......

[ViperGeorge]

Ok a little primer on brakes for those who don't know. Fade is a result of the brake system surpassing its heat handling capability. This could be the fluid overheating, the pads getting too hot, or the rotors being unable to dissipate the heat quickly enough (vane design, mass, and ducts help). The TA rotors have more mass and more thermal capacity and will handle the heat better. Race pads will operate at higher temps and are therefore less prone to fade. Higher temp brake fluid reduces the chance that the fluid will boil in the caliper and cause air bubbles (air in the lines results in a soft pedal). Bottom line the TA system when coupled with the right pads and fluid will reduce the chance of brake fade. You may also want to try stainless steel brake lines which won't expand under pressure. Rubber lines if they expand can cause longer pedal travel.

StopTech has some great white papers on brake fundamentals and design. They should be must reads for anyone with a Viper.

[One Viper Bite]

The Gen IV ACR ran StopTechs all around. These are the same rotors that came on the Gen V track pack cars and GTS. (2 piece, gold hat)
The Gen IV ACR-X ran Brembo fronts (2 piece, black hat) and kept the StopTech rears. The Brembo fronts are a few pounds heavier, thicker, but stand up prolonged/heavy track use better than the StopTechs.
The Gen V TA has the Brembos all the way around (same as the ACR-X front). Again, these will stand up to the track use better, however you are going to pay a weight penalty per rotor and a weight reduction in your pocketbook over the StopTechs.

Note there are the standard aftermarket StopTechs avail, with the black hats cheaper than OEM. These do not have the zinc plating, the OEM (gold hat) rotors have this plating. This helps prevent the rust ring in the area the pad does not hit and the hat. The TA rotors also do not have the zinc plating, so expect the rust ring between your hat and pad.

Both are great and a welcomed improvement over the standard 1 piece rotors. If you want to lose 6-8 lbs (if my memory is correct) per rotor and drive your car on the street, get the StopTechs. If you will be tracking it often and have the funds to pay white a bit more for the Brembos, get the TA rotors as they are about $1,300 each full price at the dealer.

Other options have come about from RB & VE to consider too.

$1,300 x 4?!

That sounds insane...no one here can get a better price for them? I know someone selling front TA rotors for $1500 I think. But it's only the fronts. Might be smart to jump on those then.

[fuggles]

I would just get the aftermarket stoptechs for ~1600 or all 4. Once you get better at the track and feel the need you can upgrade. Call JonB.