A&C Performance Gen 5 Heads Cam 721 rwhp 658 rwtq on 91 octane with HP tuners!!!

[Acperformance]

​Well we feel we may have finally conquered the setup. We still are going to put some more miles on the car and continue to refine the driveability. So far we have 145 miles or so on the clock and all without issue. This is various driving from City to Highway, cruising to full throttle pulls.

We have another set of heads on the shelf now and our digitizing of our new profile for the Gen 5 heads are complete. We have a few cams on order and are waiting for them to arrive. Te idle is truly what every Viper owner wants to hear. It's no burble! It's a choppy cam. It's about to come off the dyno as I have continued to address driveability at low speed as much as possible and now its time for more road testing. We are very pleased with how it sounds and performs.

Now it needs some stickier tires! A few more testing miles and it's finally on it's way home.

Todd



https://youtu.be/UySdaOLlbvA

[Junkie]

Well this is awesome, really looking forward to seeing how this progresses!

I bet in a ported intake/stock bottom end Gen5 it'll make 730 on 93.

[Steve M]

Jesus.

[FLATOUT]

Since you mentioned our name,package, and dynos in the vid it would be nice to mention the cost of a piston, rod, heads and cam setup installed with warranty.

[Acperformance]

I mentioned a car you built that was run on our dyno. I'm not into bashing Andy. Don't make it like that. I'm just posting real information as your the only entity offering a head cam package for the Gen 5 currently. Not fabricating or talking trash it's not my style. Pistons and Rods were this customers choice. But I will be sure to post up another Dyno as soon as I have our custom ground cams in hand and install this into a stock bottom end Viper. In addition I will be working on pricing to give to anybody and make public. We have nothing to hide here.

We don't have the huge support of Chrysler as you do and I am not trying to act as if we do. You built a great package, not taking anything from it :)

Todd

[ViperTony]

Holy shit Todd!!! Very well done!

[FLATOUT]

Not talking trash at all but you did bring up our packages,name, and dyno in your video so of course you're going to get a response.

[Acperformance]

Which is fine by me. :) Nothing bad said

Todd

[J TNT]

Nice work Todd that is freakin awesome !!! Looking forward to your finished set up !!! :)

[Redx]

anything in the works for the gen iv? something im interested doing this winter!

[Acperformance]

I feel this same setup will definitely work on your Gen 4!

[TT32VGT]

nice work! any surging or bucking while cruising on hwy or interstate?

why the forged rods an pistons?

[Acperformance]

I have a local customer I am trying to push into doing it as well :)

First Gen 4 customer will get a price break.

[cubican]

Very impressive and that's on 91 octane!

[Crotalidae]

Very nice!!!

[Dustin]

What can you do for a Gen IV?

[Acperformance]

Working on the surging below say 1600rpm...above that it's smooth.. no jer king surging etc. Drives perfect on the freeway.

[Voice of Reason]

Exciting times! Who would have thought that > 700 rwhp could be had on a NA engine. It's interesting that all of the comparison curves are basically the same below 4K, this thing must be a monster to handle once it crosses that line!

[Redx]

Is there any more in it for say 94 oct?

[ACRucrazy]

I have a local customer I am trying to push into doing it as well :)

First Gen 4 customer will get a price break.

I have an ACR-X crate engine I can send you. LOL

[mnc2886]

This will be interesting to see what it does without a bump in compression and a stock bottom end. Excited to see the Gen IV experiment as well. Congrats and good luck as you move forward.

[Revolution]

Awesome work

[1.8t]

Very impressive!

[Vipes]

Daaayum!! Nice work Todd, as always. What are the limits of the gen V factory piston/rods?

[KB Viper]

awesome work Todd! will you post more idle video's please? what is the idle rpm set at?

[PaulP]

Highest N/A HP Gen 5 Viper in the world! This is great for the viper world and very impressive nice to see options for the viper guys finally! Great work Todd !
Car should run 9's all day in the 1/4 mile!

[Arizona Vipers]

Very impressive! Was the compression ratio higher on this car versus factor? That huge torque jump leads me to believe so!
And is there going to be any kind of warranty?

[mblgjr]

This is awesome especially if it retains any kind of manners.

[Snakebit10]

Incredible. I knew it could be done if enough time and money were invested. Congrats. It will be interesting to see what it does on higher octane 93+ with full bolt-on mods and tune on an otherwise fully stock motor.

[RedTanRT/10]

I feel this same setup will definitely work on your Gen 4!

Todd, great work!!!

I hope to reach out in the next few weeks and discuss options, and at minimum I want you to tune my viper.

High level question, SMOG, I'm on bellanger's header/cat back with ported intake and heads, and the latest arrow. Nearly 2 years ago, I swapped the ECU, cleared codes, drove 50-60 to get ready, and it passed.

With your cam, can it pass smog?? Thanks!! Mike

[v10viperbox]

I have a local customer I am trying to push into doing it as well :)

First Gen 4 customer will get a price break.


Is this a motor out sort of install, if so can we do forged internals at the same time? Can you use the HP tuner on the Mopar ECU or does it need to go back to stock and then tuned?

I will be local to the shop in a few weeks I will call ahead and stop by. Already have all the other supporting mods in terms of heads and exhaust done.

[Murpowa]

Jesus.

Amen to that

[Acperformance]

Is this a motor out sort of install, if so can we do forged internals at the same time? Can you use the HP tuner on the Mopar ECU or does it need to go back to stock and then tuned?

I will be local to the shop in a few weeks I will call ahead and stop by. Already have all the other supporting mods in terms of heads and exhaust done.

It is a motor out deal. We should be able to use HP tuner on the Mopar ECU. Definitely come by if your in town.

Todd

[Acperformance]

Off the dyno and back on the street now. Driveability is much much better down low still needing a few tweaks around 1400 very light throttle. This car is a beast on the road. :)

Todd
A&C Performance
25851 Jefferson Ave
Murrieta, CA 92562
951-696-0500
Todd@acperformance.net

[Acperformance]

Just received a call, 2 cams headed here this week :)

Todd

[donk_316]

Gotta release what's included-specs and what's the price tag.

[Acperformance]

Working on that as we speak :)

[Arizona Vipers]

Was the compression ratio changed? If so, to what?

[V10powerr]

congrats - great work and sound. healthy competition helps all, consumers have more choices, vendors work harder and innovate more to earn business. business work hard to create their competitive edge and charge for their edge.

[Sticky]

Since you mentioned our name,package, and dynos in the vid it would be nice to mention the cost of a piston, rod, heads and cam setup installed with warranty.

You're a sensitive Sally.

It almost feels like you take Heads/Cam performance personally. Is someone uneasy about a better performing option cutting into profits?

[socal]

You're a sensitive Sally.

It almost feels like you take Heads/Cam performance personally. Is someone uneasy about a better performing option cutting into profits?

Very well said.

[Sticky]

Was the compression ratio changed? If so, to what?

The video mentions a bump to just under 11.0:1 but that they expect similar numbers on the stock motor with some higher flowing heads and this cam. So, you do not need pistons and rods along with the heads and cam as someone clearly is trying to exaggerate the cost.

[Arizona Vipers]

You're a sensitive Sally.

It almost feels like you take Heads/Cam performance personally. Is someone uneasy about a better performing option cutting into profits?

I disagree. I think he just wants the full details posted if there were any other changes besides just heads and cam. I want this info as well and have asked twice without a response. I hate seeing dyno numbers without full details on what was done to the car, I'm sure everyone else would agree.
I am a candidate for both options here, but need details to make a decision but they are going unanswered. I'm patient though, perhaps he missed my question when answering all the others.

[Sticky]

I disagree. I think he just wants the full details posted if there were any other changes besides just heads and cam. I want this info as well and have asked twice without a response. I hate seeing dyno numbers without full details on what was done to the car, I'm sure everyone else would agree.
I am a candidate for both options here, but need details to make a decision but they are going unanswered. I'm patient though, perhaps he missed my question when answering all the others.

You're free to disagree but the tone comes off as insecure and instigating. In the video it is even stated the other options are great. I'm not sure what other info you need as it is covered in the video.

The response was one designed to make it seem like you need pistons and rods (extra $$$) and of course he highlights the warranty as that is all his option has left going for it.

The fact this is done on 91 octane with HP Tuners is just icing on the cake as you are not locked into a canned tune.

Awesome work.

[Arizona Vipers]

You're free to disagree but the tone comes off as insecure and instigating. In the video it is even stated the other options are great. I'm not sure what other info you need as it is covered in the video.

The response was one designed to make it seem like you need pistons and rods (extra $$$) and of course he highlights the warranty as that is all his option has left going for it.

The fact this is done on 91 octane with HP Tuners is just icing on the cake as you are not locked into a canned tune.

Awesome work.

I honestly didn't watch the whole video, so that's my bad. I honestly cant watch every 7 minute video posted just to find out the compression ratio etc. Thanks for letting me know it was in there, much appreciated! That's killer torque for the small bump. Question for the OP, is it possible to go higher on the compression ratio for a track-only, high octane build? What is the max without valve clearance issues?

It's hard to compare these types of packages, I think Viper Exchange/Arrow is more of an OE, safe, track reliable, tested setup. But not saying A&C wont do the same amount of testing down the road. I'm a hardcore track guy so reliability would be my main concern on these types of packages. It's great to have choices, especially on such a low production car!

[donk_316]

I cant see VE/Arrow leaving 60whp on the table just to be "safe".
I thought the story goes is they ran 3 different profiles in their race car and settled on the current one as the best option.
The VE/Arrow cam and head packages have probably a combined 20,000 miles of real world testing on them. There has to be a reason they didnt go more radical on the cam.

Im still leaning towards the VE/Arrow stage 2.

[Sticky]

There has to be a reason they didnt go more radical on the cam.


You could make the same argument for the factory cam.

[FLATOUT]

The video mentions a bump to just under 11.0:1 but that they expect similar numbers on the stock motor with some higher flowing heads and this cam. So, you do not need pistons and rods along with the heads and cam as someone clearly is trying to exaggerate the cost.

You can't run a cam large enough to make those kind of numbers without Pistons with valve reliefs cut in them, you also won't make 700 without increasing compression. To do it right you will have to get into the rotating assembly. I'm not trying to exaggerate anything, I built a heads and cam car for the same customer that owns this car which he has had for almost a year now and I spoke with him at NVE. He told me he currently has 30k into this build (his words not mine).

Our dynos where compared on Todds video, but cost, warranty, and several other things were not compared.

[FLATOUT]

I cant see VE/Arrow leaving 60whp on the table just to be "safe".
I thought the story goes is they ran 3 different profiles in their race car and settled on the current one as the best option.
The VE/Arrow cam and head packages have probably a combined 20,000 miles of real world testing on them. There has to be a reason they didnt go more radical on the cam.

Im still leaning towards the VE/Arrow stage 2.

Dick designed our setup to make the most HP we could safely and run the largest cam profile we could with the factory piston, and fuel system while retaining as much of the OEM drive ability as possible. We ran 9 different cams in IMSA before deciding which one to go with in the street car and we have over 100,000 miles in the field now with 7 cars that ran at NVE2 without a hitch.

[v10tt]

Andy, can the Arrow set up benefit form higher flowing heads? how much cfm do the Arrow heads flow?
thanks!

[ViperTony]

It's very unfortunate that Todd's thread has to turned into yet another Arrow comparison. Apples vs. Oranges. Let it go, let Todd have his peace in his own thread. There are many of us that appreciate what's going into Todd's build. Some of us enjoy serious NA motor builds and don't mind digging into the engine, it's OK. Todd, please continue on with the build details. Thanks.

[06SRTCoupe]

It's unbelievable the amount of bickering and insecurity that is going on in this thread. How about, if you have an Arrow related question, you take it to PM or start another thread and not clutter up this one? Todd did say they were still in the developing stages of this build. I don't have a dog in this fight but, after watching the video, I saw zero mal-intent towards anyone. I'm sure there will be a stock motor Gen V with his new setup installed soon enough and Todd will post the results on here. Let's take a step back, take a breath, and wait for the final package to come down.

[J TNT]

I'm glad to see someone like Todd stepping up to the plate and give us options ! 5 to 10 years ago our community was very limited when it came to Mods. Gen 3 guys would have to do pistons and Rods given the cream puff bottom end , so it's an expected cost.
Keep up the great work Todd ! ;)

[Acperformance]

I honestly didn't watch the whole video, so that's my bad. I honestly cant watch every 7 minute video posted just to find out the compression ratio etc. Thanks for letting me know it was in there, much appreciated! That's killer torque for the small bump. Question for the OP, is it possible to go higher on the compression ratio for a track-only, high octane build? What is the max without valve clearance issues?

It's hard to compare these types of packages, I think Viper Exchange/Arrow is more of an OE, safe, track reliable, tested setup. But not saying A&C wont do the same amount of testing down the road. I'm a hardcore track guy so reliability would be my main concern on these types of packages. It's great to have choices, especially on such a low production car!

Without changing pistons, you are limited to the compression increase, but what is attainable? In just a sec i'll tell you :). We can shave the heads and reduce the size of the combustion chamber. The next set we have going on a STOCK MOTOR viper are shaved down to add as much compression as possible. In addition I would disagree with how large your cam has to be to achieve over 700 on a stock engine. The cam used in this particular Green Viper only had .612 lift. The new cams coming have a bit more :)

We are doing more testing in addition. I truly believe it's all in the cylinder head design. Speed and flow are key and we have spent much time in this area. We even found many improvements in the stock manifold. I'm not into back and forth wars online. I believe in facts, not bench racing.

In addition, we have not outlined every part going into the package as of yet because I personally need to go over it for accuracy and proper pricing. Unfortunately I do much more than invoicing and answering phones at the shop. I have motors I am assembling, vehicles I am tuning and time just goes rather quickly. I am very "hands on".

And for all the numbers people and skeptics. Here is what is attainable!

FACTORY HEAD:
cc = 71
Valve Relief = 5cc
Gasket Thickness = .048
Gasket Bore = 4.055
Static Compression = 10.19
Dynamic Compression = 7.61


OUR SETUP
CC = 65
Piston Valve Relief = 5cc
Gasket Thick = .030
Gasket Bore = 4.055
Static Compression = 11.40
Dynamic Compression = 7.66

This is whats achievable and will be on our next car.

The Green Viper has aftermarket pistons getting it to 11 to 1 compression.

This is all the "Details" of the combination I will give out. The rest I will keep in my pocket.

We will be testing the car as well besides street driving :)

In addition, we plan to do e85 fuel testing as well.

Todd

[pdv25]

Damn this is awesome! 721whp on 91 oct!!!

HMMM maybe i should get back in a viper!

Great job!

[345s-bspinnin]

Great number Todd. Its obvious that you guys have done a lot of work on this setup, but its certainly paying off.

[slovenom]

Amazing numbers !!

[EvilWon]

Coming from the LSX platform it's been quite different to only have one option for heads/cam combo. At the end of the day competition between vendors will result in better options for the consumer. Keep up the great work!

[Sticky]

Without changing pistons, you are limited to the compression increase, but what is attainable? In just a sec i'll tell you :). We can shave the heads and reduce the size of the combustion chamber. The next set we have going on a STOCK MOTOR viper are shaved down to add as much compression as possible. In addition I would disagree with how large your cam has to be to achieve over 700 on a stock engine. The cam used in this particular Green Viper only had .612 lift. The new cams coming have a bit more :)

We are doing more testing in addition. I truly believe it's all in the cylinder head design. Speed and flow are key and we have spent much time in this area. We even found many improvements in the stock manifold. I'm not into back and forth wars online. I believe in facts, not bench racing.

In addition, we have not outlined every part going into the package as of yet because I personally need to go over it for accuracy and proper pricing. Unfortunately I do much more than invoicing and answering phones at the shop. I have motors I am assembling, vehicles I am tuning and time just goes rather quickly. I am very "hands on".

And for all the numbers people and skeptics. Here is what is attainable!

FACTORY HEAD:
cc = 71
Valve Relief = 5cc
Gasket Thickness = .048
Gasket Bore = 4.055
Static Compression = 10.19
Dynamic Compression = 7.61


OUR SETUP
CC = 65
Piston Valve Relief = 5cc
Gasket Thick = .030
Gasket Bore = 4.055
Static Compression = 11.40
Dynamic Compression = 7.66

This is whats achievable and will be on our next car.

The Green Viper has aftermarket pistons getting it to 11 to 1 compression.

This is all the "Details" of the combination I will give out. The rest I will keep in my pocket.

We will be testing the car as well besides street driving :)

In addition, we plan to do e85 fuel testing as well.

Todd

Ah, milling the he heads to increase compression. Who knew that was possible? Someone was stating you had to change the pistons.

Good work and a very smart and cost effective solution.

I look forward to seeing how much further you guys go. The E85 testing alone is going to be huge considering how terrible 91 octane pump is in Cali. It should allow you to bump timing to really take advantage of the cam.

Keep it up.

[mnc2886]

Without changing pistons, you are limited to the compression increase, but what is attainable? In just a sec i'll tell you :). We can shave the heads and reduce the size of the combustion chamber. The next set we have going on a STOCK MOTOR viper are shaved down to add as much compression as possible. In addition I would disagree with how large your cam has to be to achieve over 700 on a stock engine. The cam used in this particular Green Viper only had .612 lift. The new cams coming have a bit more :)

We are doing more testing in addition. I truly believe it's all in the cylinder head design. Speed and flow are key and we have spent much time in this area. We even found many improvements in the stock manifold. I'm not into back and forth wars online. I believe in facts, not bench racing.

In addition, we have not outlined every part going into the package as of yet because I personally need to go over it for accuracy and proper pricing. Unfortunately I do much more than invoicing and answering phones at the shop. I have motors I am assembling, vehicles I am tuning and time just goes rather quickly. I am very "hands on".

And for all the numbers people and skeptics. Here is what is attainable!

FACTORY HEAD:
cc = 71
Valve Relief = 5cc
Gasket Thickness = .048
Gasket Bore = 4.055
Static Compression = 10.19
Dynamic Compression = 7.61


OUR SETUP
CC = 65
Piston Valve Relief = 5cc
Gasket Thick = .030
Gasket Bore = 4.055
Static Compression = 11.40
Dynamic Compression = 7.66

This is whats achievable and will be on our next car.

The Green Viper has aftermarket pistons getting it to 11 to 1 compression.

This is all the "Details" of the combination I will give out. The rest I will keep in my pocket.

We will be testing the car as well besides street driving :)

In addition, we plan to do e85 fuel testing as well.

Todd

Obviously would be better suited for you to start a new thread, but I'd be interested in the gains plausible from your modified Gen V intake versus a stock Gen V intake. I'd like to see it on a bolt-ons car especially. Especially for us Gen IV folk. There is a good dollar value in upgrading a Gen IV intake to a Gen V. Since a customer would be doing that modification anyways, it would be nice to know if your version could be purchased in lieu of a stock manifold. You might have quite a few orders on hand for this across multiple Viper generations.

[Space Truckin]

IIRC..A/C started this thread... :very_drunk:

[FLATOUT]

You are 100% right. Sorry Todd didn't mean to ruin your thread.

Andy



It's very unfortunate that Todd's thread has to turned into yet another Arrow comparison. Apples vs. Oranges. Let it go, let Todd have his peace in his own thread. There are many of us that appreciate what's going into Todd's build. Some of us enjoy serious NA motor builds and don't mind digging into the engine, it's OK. Todd, please continue on with the build details. Thanks.

[KB Viper]

Damn this is awesome! 721whp on 91 oct!!!

HMMM maybe i should get back in a viper!

Great job!

wait, you sold your TA? what did you get?

[Steve M]

Obviously would be better suited for you to start a new thread, but I'd be interested in the gains plausible from your modified Gen V intake versus a stock Gen V intake. I'd like to see it on a bolt-ons car especially. Especially for us Gen IV folk. There is a good dollar value in upgrading a Gen IV intake to a Gen V. Since a customer would be doing that modification anyways, it would be nice to know if your version could be purchased in lieu of a stock manifold. You might have quite a few orders on hand for this across multiple Viper generations.

Agreed...I have a Gen 5 manifold on the way, and am very curious about that particular part of his post too.

[pdv25]

wait, you sold your TA? what did you get?

I sold the Viper in February, and I ordered a slow ZO6. ;)

[slovenom]

I sold the Viper in February, and I ordered a slow ZO6. ;)
Thats when he knew ,he fuc&ed up

[Arizona Vipers]

Without changing pistons, you are limited to the compression increase, but what is attainable? In just a sec i'll tell you :). We can shave the heads and reduce the size of the combustion chamber.


FACTORY HEAD:
cc = 71
Gasket Thickness = .048
Static Compression = 10.19

OUR SETUP
CC = 65
Gasket Thick = .030
Static Compression = 11.40



So we can get 11.4 compression ratio with no piston changes? Just from the head milling and thinner gasket?

[Acperformance]

So we can get 11.4 compression ratio with no piston changes? Just from the head milling and thinner gasket?

Yes sir

[Snakebit10]

I sold the Viper in February, and I ordered a slow ZO6. ;)
How do you like the Z06 vs the TA?

You in a 72xhp n/a Viper sounds like it would make some great videos lol...

[Ripper]

Awesome work Todd!! Hat's off to you and the A&C crew

I know the numbers and performance will only get better from here as you guys never stop the pursuit of badassness!

[Acperformance]

Thanks Jerry :)

You know your a car guy just like me. We are never satisfied hahaha. Always something to improve on. I'm considering buying a Gen 4 just to see what I can do from start to finish!

[ACRucrazy]

Thanks Jerry :)

You know your a car guy just like me. We are never satisfied hahaha. Always something to improve on. I'm considering buying a Gen 4 just to see what I can do from start to finish!


I like this idea... they are a great value IMO. Especially the few cheaper ACRs floating around..

[catwood]

Having sold my LPE car and getting into a Gen V I can attest to how much effort Todd spent on getting the HPE car tuned for streetability. He spend hours to get it perfect and increased the HP over what LPE had dyno'd back on the original build.

Hats off to Todds work ethic, his commitment to the Viper world and his lack of political bullshit and mudslinging with other suppliers. It seems he has a great relationship with shops within our area and they share and rely on each other to get customers satisfied. I have seen it first hand while in his shop working on a customers car.

If that was the direction I wanted to go, i wouldn't hesitate calling Todd. However, for me and for the moment I'm staying with the car stock, not even considering headers....

[Acperformance]

Thanks Carl for the response. :) I just had another Gen V NOS car in the shop today and he was actually bringing me his Gen 3 Viper to do a full heads cam setup on this coming Monday. Well he decided to take a listen to the Green Gen V Viper and we went for a ride. Now he's changed direction and we are doing Heads Cam on the Gen V and putting a 350-400 shot on top of that. Going to be a fun ride!

Todd

[Nick TA]

Hey Todd will you be around the shop tomorrow? Might need to come check this thing out since I'm only 15 minutes away!

[Sticky]

I'm about 40 minutes from the shop. I kind of want to check it out too.

Gen V heads/cam with a 300 shot? That should be a 1000 whp car on the juice.

[zee]

Having sold my LPE car and getting into a Gen V I can attest to how much effort Todd spent on getting the HPE car tuned for streetability. He spend hours to get it perfect and increased the HP over what LPE had dyno'd back on the original build.

Hats off to Todds work ethic, his commitment to the Viper world and his lack of political bullshit and mudslinging with other suppliers. It seems he has a great relationship with shops within our area and they share and rely on each other to get customers satisfied. I have seen it first hand while in his shop working on a customers car.

If that was the direction I wanted to go, i wouldn't hesitate calling Todd. However, for me and for the moment I'm staying with the car stock, not even considering headers....

I second this. Very lucky to be less than an hour away from him!! Nice work Todd. Thank for all that you do.

[Acperformance]

It's gonna be much much more than 1000whp:) we'll see that before we tear into the motor ;)

Todd