Overheating on the track

[Arizona Vipers]

After tracking a Gen 2 for a year with a problem that nobody could fix (described in other threads) I started tracking my '13 about 6 months ago. The car did great at the first 4 events I took it to, one at INDE in AZ, then two weekends in a row at Chuckwalla (One Nasa event and Viper Tracks, then East track here in Phoenix) The car kicked ass at all these events until the motor blew. It was replaced under warranty a few weeks ago. We did a 400 mile break in on the street. I took it to Main track (1.6 mile track) here in Phoenix last week, the car ran hot and would shut off at the end of every session right as I would pit-out. I took it to Airpark Dodge/Eddie Martin, nothing obvious was found. So drove it down to INDE (4 hour drive) yesterday for an event this weekend. Took the car out first session (62 degrees outside) and in my 3rd lap I looked down and saw coolant was 239* and left the track and car shut down in the hot pits and puked coolant everywhere. So loaded up the car, lost hotel money, track money, gas both ways and more importantly my time. So the car with the old motor ran perfect under any tack situation, with the new motor it cant do 3 laps in 62* weather. I love Viper's and own several and will always drive them on the street, but since i started hitting the track 1.5 years ago, I've done about 20 events, and only 4 I've actually been able to do. All others car has failed and nobody can fix it. Imagine going to the track 20 times and your car fails 17 of them, many are long drives far from my home. I love Viper's and cant imagine tracking another car, but everyone I know around me that also tracks cars never has these problems and always has fun at the track. I just want to have fun at the track. My buddy bought a Z06 at the same time I started tracking and we do all events together and the only problem he has ever had is a cracked rotor and he runs his car as fast as me. 17 events now I broke down while he has no issues. Viper Exchange? Woodhouse??? Anyone have any ideas on making a Gen 5 be able to run at the track and not overheat? I'll give this on more try.

[donk_316]

Not many people have reported overheating but the few that have, never seem to fix the issue.

There is a larger radiator available and now Calvo sells a really affordable upper radiator hard pipe (the stock rubber one was shown to collapse on a dyno run they posted)

Otherwise it should be a warranty issue with the new engine.

[Arizona Vipers]

Not many people have reported overheating but the few that have, never seem to fix the issue.

There is a larger radiator available and now Calvo sells a really affordable upper radiator hard pipe (the stock rubber one was shown to collapse on a dyno run they posted)

Otherwise it should be a warranty issue with the new engine.

Thanks, great info! I would do the bigger radiator for sure, but something else is fundamentally wrong. It's night and day since replacing the motor.
I'm assuming I have the same upper radiator hose from before the engine replacement, but would be open to trying that for sure.
Agreed on the warranty issue, Nemesis was out there on same track with no overheating issues.
I'd also like to say that this was the first time I have ran this configuration on this track so I wasn't pushing the car near as hard as I normally do on a tracks I'm familiar with.

[darbgnik]

No value post here, but maybe something to do with it still being a tight engine? Either that, or something off with the new tune on the new engine, as the 2016 motor is a little different????? Definitely odd and good luck!

[Vprbite]

The hard pipe radiator hose is probably a good idea cause those things cavitate bigtime. I also think something about the design of the hood seems to trap some hot air in there up near the cowling by the windshield on the Gen V.

It's weird though because scads of people track these cars and don't overheat. Maybe you are a good enough/aggressive enough driver that you are pushing the limits. Perhaps try the close out panel from DSE? I think people seem to have decent results with that. It would be really helpful to see if that hose is cavitating though. Because that will heat it up ultra fast. Are you sure the fan is working? And, lest we forget, is the water pump working for sure? Are you seeing the coolant flow? I know Eddie and he knows these cars inside and out but I'm just going through my checklist I would go over if you brought it to my house and we looked at it. Just in case you missed something.

Also, you/we are thinking about the input portion of the motor. What about the other end? Are you CERTAIN there is no problem with the exhaust? Cats can fail and not throw a CEL. They can even puke their substrate out. It's happened. Could it be clogged up such that it is burning fuel and therefor not messing pissing off the rear O2 sensors but not letting all that heat appropriately flow out? Perhaps that's why you get a couple laps before it overheats? Just a thought.

Best of Luck. Let me know if I can help.

[FLATOUT]

Carl's TA 2.0 was having similar issues and he did many of the things that were already suggested, radiator, hard pipe (I think), and finally an upgraded water pump from Arrow which I believe is what cured the problem.

And as already mentioned it's a pretty uncommon thing which made it difficult to diagnose.

[cab33]

If there are no other 2016's with heating issues when on track...

I would guess that it would most likely be "human error" during the engine swap.

[Special Ed]

PM sent

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Interesting it was after an engine swap, this could be the first real clue as to what is going on. Before the problems seemed to be with select few TA 2.0s. Maybe it is somehow an issue related to a batch of engines or human error on install.

I know Karl absolutely threw the kitchen sink at it (other than changing engines or cars) and never fixed the issue. He was also reporting some crazy IAT at WOT of 30 degrees over ambient on track (seems very high even without heat shield, he did have the airbox plug installed). He was turning some very fast lap times at COTA but maybe that had nothing to do with it given your experience.

Here is one thread where it was discussed:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9220-Track-temps-revisited

Edit : saw FLATOUT says above a water pump did help.

[rlhay2]

Are you running the standard 50/50 anti-freeze : water ratio or something more suitable for Arizona weather?

[swexlin]

If there are no other 2016's with heating issues when on track...

I would guess that it would most likely be "human error" during the engine swap.

This. I would get the car back to the dealer, something wasn't done right (or a faulty part used) when the new engine went in.

[Special Ed]

Interesting it was after an engine swap, this could be the first real clue as to what is going on. Before the problems seemed to be with select few TA 2.0s. Maybe it is somehow an issue related to a batch of engines or human error on install.

I know Karl absolutely threw the kitchen sink at it (other than changing engines or cars) and never fixed the issue. He was also reporting some crazy IAT at WOT of 30 degrees over ambient on track (seems very high even without heat shield, he did have the airbox plug installed). He was turning some very fast lap times at COTA but maybe that had nothing to do with it given your experience.

Here is one thread where it was discussed:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9220-Track-temps-revisited

Edit : saw FLATOUT says above a water pump did help.

The pump not only helped it it cured the problem.

[Pappy]

PM sent

[Arizona Vipers]

I forgot to include the vehicle mods:
Arrow tune
Belanger headers/mufflers, deleted cats

Pappy mentioned in a PM that maybe the Arrow computer could be tuned for '13 and the '16 tune is different. I'm going to PM FLATOUT about that....

Thanks guys.

[Arizona Vipers]

If there are no other 2016's with heating issues when on track...

I would guess that it would most likely be "human error" during the engine swap.
Eddie Martin is an extremely capable tech who has done a lot of these swaps.

[supersnake]

It seems like a restriction of water flow. Since you say this is a problem since engine swap. How far have you driven it non track. Does it get hot on the street? I have seen sometimes on exchange engine plastic plugs to plug oil and water lines. Might be a plug left in a part of the water flow lines maybe partly blocking flow. I have seen 2 put in the same hole and one gets removed and still leave one in there. I doubt that this is the problem as I have heard lots about Eddies work but we are only human.

[TrackAire]

The pump not only helped it it cured the problem.

Is there any information on this pump and what is different about it?

TIA

[Dman]

I forgot to include the vehicle mods:
Arrow tune
Belanger headers/mufflers, deleted cats

Pappy mentioned in a PM that maybe the Arrow computer could be tuned for '13 and the '16 tune is different. I'm going to PM FLATOUT about that....

Thanks guys.

They are different, I don't know if it could lead to your problem, something is definitely wrong, it doesn't sound at all like a little bug, something is outta whack, but if you have the orig Arrow from the '13 motor, then you need a swap for the '16, this came up in discussion concerning engine swaps and the latest recalls. You could swap the stock PCM back in, which I assume they would've updates with the engine swap and see if the cooling is improved.

[Redsled]

After tracking a Gen 2 for a year with a problem that nobody could fix

I've tracked my 98' GTS race car for 10+ years with the stock radiator and have never had issues. Will the car get hot at times, yes, if I keep the car near redline for extended amounts of time, but that is the exception, not the rule. The problem with the Gen 2 cars was always airflow to the radiator, not the radiator itself. Perhaps you are driving the car at redline for extended periods, which is causing the overheating?

[Arizona Vipers]

How far have you driven it non track. Does it get hot on the street? .

We drove it 500 break in miles on the street it never got hot.

[Arizona Vipers]

Perhaps you are driving the car at redline for extended periods, which is causing the overheating?

Yeah I drive the car hard, but no different than the way I drove it with the old motor. I ran that track a few months ago in a very similar configuration and never had any heat issues. Same with Chuckwalla, both CCW and CW.

[Pappy]

This probably won't make you feel any better, but it was posted today on another forum.

"We're packing up to leave from a Sebring track day today with 86F ambient temps. There were 4 Z06s here. Every Z06 overheated, including two novice drivers who overheated within 3 laps on their first ever track session. "

Pappy

[ViperGeorge]

Several of us have experienced high temps on track. Carl did and I have. Others too. 243+ coolant, 265+ oil. SRT says engine good to 255 coolant but that seems hot. I knew Carl tried a bunch of stuff but I hadn't heard about the water pump. I need to look into that. I've put on an underdrive pulley, water wetter, spring in upper radiator hose, insulated radiator lines and tank, nothing helped.

[mjorgensen]

13/14 PCM is totally different than 14/15 so for sure have that taken care of...

The water pump was replaced with the thought being that the one he had was not machined just right "tolerances" were likely on the outside of the range. Installing a proven pump solved cavitation issues.

[Arizona Vipers]

Several of us have experienced high temps on track. Carl did and I have. Others too. 243+ coolant, 265+ oil. SRT says engine good to 255 coolant but that seems hot. I knew Carl tried a bunch of stuff but I hadn't heard about the water pump. I need to look into that. I've put on an underdrive pulley, water wetter, spring in upper radiator hose, insulated radiator lines and tank, nothing helped.

Did your car ever shut off with the dash lights flashing? And the underdrive pulley did NOTHING? What were your ambient temps when you were hitting 240's? I pulled off at high 230's and then the car puked. Your car didn't puke at 240's?

[Arizona Vipers]

13/14 PCM is totally different than 14/15 so for sure have that taken care of...

The water pump was replaced with the thought being that the one he had was not machined just right "tolerances" were likely on the outside of the range. Installing a proven pump solved cavitation issues.

Where can I buy this "proven pump"????

[Arizona Vipers]

and finally an upgraded water pump from Arrow which I believe is what cured the problem.

\

How do I get this water pump?



Thanks.

[Special Ed]

How do I get this water pump?



Thanks.

Arrow

[Simms]

Arrow

Just curious, is it a different pump than OEM?

[kaamacat]

Although sometimes a simple thought..... are your radiator fans both working? Sometimes its the simple stuff that just goes poof.

[roadrunner]

Kaamacat poses a good question... keep in mind the fans are in a series/parallel arrangement... And there are two fuses... so you might loose one without losing the other... If both are working you should see only two speeds, both on low, both on high speed. High speed will be quite loud, and a ton of air from both shrouds.

[Special Ed]

Just curious, is it a different pump than OEM?

I believe closer tolerances

[mjorgensen]

I believe closer tolerances

Yes

[ViperGeorge]

Did your car ever shut off with the dash lights flashing? And the underdrive pulley did NOTHING? What were your ambient temps when you were hitting 240's? I pulled off at high 230's and then the car puked. Your car didn't puke at 240's?

My car did not puke or shut off. Dash light was flashing red though at 240. Here's data I posted on another thread.

Track High Plains Raceway near Byers, CO. Altitude is 5088 feet. Both test days were clear and nice with low humidity.

Baseline - Last time I was at the track
Ambient Temp 77
Stock Pulley
10-40 Mobil 1
Headers
No insulation on anything except O2 wires
Doug Shelby air box shield
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Coolant Max 243 after 15 minutes
Oil Max 263 after 15 minutes
IAT 95
Testing had to be halted due to melted wire harness

First run today
Ambient 73
Underdrive pulley
Doug Shelby air box shield removed
Headers
15-50 Mobil 1
Water Wetter
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Insulation on most everything including cooling lines, PDC, and harness
Coolant Max 225 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 240 after 30 minutes
IAT 95

Second run today
Ambient 86
Same mods as first run except
OEM PCM
Coolant Max 226 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 246 after 30 minutes
IAT 104

Third run today
Ambient 89
Same mods as first and second run except
Arrow PCM reinstalled
Coolant Max 240 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 258 after 30 minutes
IAT 105

A friend was also at the track the same day with his 2014 GTS. It is bone stock. He is a comparable driver to me at this track. He was running 238 coolant with oil around 250. Seems too hot even for a bone stock car.

[aNinjaneer]

Does it do it while driving normally, or just at the track? It's possible that the system simply wasn't bled properly. They're kind of a pain to bleed completely, and will definitely overheat if not completely purged of air. The last time we bled one, the thermostat took a while to open and allow the air bubble to leave the system. We sat with the steam port cracked open, and it was flowing steam for a good 5-10 minutes before the thermostat opened and gulped down all of the coolant in the reservoir.

[Jack B]

In general, the fans do not operate at high speed.


Although sometimes a simple thought..... are your radiator fans both working? Sometimes its the simple stuff that just goes poof.

[kverges]

Fans will not make a difference on track and in fact true race cars have no fans as they impede flow at higher speeds. I'd first suspect air in cooling system.

[Arizona Vipers]

are your radiator fans both working? .

Yeah we checked that first thing

- - - Updated - - -


I'd first suspect air in cooling system.

I bled the system there was no air

[Arizona Vipers]

First run today
Ambient 73
Underdrive pulley
Doug Shelby air box shield removed
Headers
15-50 Mobil 1
Water Wetter
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Insulation on most everything including cooling lines, PDC, and harness
Coolant Max 225 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 240 after 30 minutes
IAT 95




Wow so you think the underdrive pulley helped that much??

[ViperGeorge]

Wow so you think the underdrive pulley helped that much??

Well, I think it helped some. Insulating the cooling lines that run to oil cooler also probably helped. But when ambient rose to high 80s temps got hot again.

[XSnake]

I can't get my car even close to overheating. I don't think it went over 200* at Daytona a week ago. I'll look at my data later tonight when I post some vids.

[aNinjaneer]

I bled the system there was no air

You may have, but I'd still say there's a possibility you missed some air. Was coolant flowing constantly out of the steam port on top of the upper water neck? Even if it was done properly, I'd give it another go once the car is fully warmed up. Can't hurt, but could fix it.

[Arizona Vipers]

Ok, I took the car to lunch to see if it would overheat and it ran in the 190's.
The engine threw a code, P0174 "Fuel System 2/1 Lean" see attached picture. Could this be from running 100 octane?

16962

I'll be taking the car to Eddie soon to have everything double checked and will order the upper radiator hose and blueprinted water pump and maybe the underdrive pulley.

[Nemesis]

Having a lean state will also generate too much heat no? I know there are other in here who know more about this than I do..

[Stealth]

My car did not puke or shut off. Dash light was flashing red though at 240. Here's data I posted on another thread.

Track High Plains Raceway near Byers, CO. Altitude is 5088 feet. Both test days were clear and nice with low humidity.

Baseline - Last time I was at the track
Ambient Temp 77
Stock Pulley
10-40 Mobil 1
Headers
No insulation on anything except O2 wires
Doug Shelby air box shield
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Coolant Max 243 after 15 minutes
Oil Max 263 after 15 minutes
IAT 95
Testing had to be halted due to melted wire harness

First run today
Ambient 73
Underdrive pulley
Doug Shelby air box shield removed
Headers
15-50 Mobil 1
Water Wetter
95 Octane
Arrow PCM
2 tow hooks
Insulation on most everything including cooling lines, PDC, and harness
Coolant Max 225 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 240 after 30 minutes
IAT 95

Second run today
Ambient 86
Same mods as first run except
OEM PCM
Coolant Max 226 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 246 after 30 minutes
IAT 104

Third run today
Ambient 89
Same mods as first and second run except
Arrow PCM reinstalled
Coolant Max 240 after 30 minutes
Oil Max 258 after 30 minutes
IAT 105

A friend was also at the track the same day with his 2014 GTS. It is bone stock. He is a comparable driver to me at this track. He was running 238 coolant with oil around 250. Seems too hot even for a bone stock car.

My 2014 GTS with TA Aero, Arrow PCM, 91 Octane and Corsa Cat-Back Exhaust has run fine on the Track (two trips so far, last one it was 85F). No dash warning lights, alarms, limp modes, audible pinging, etc. My Oil Temps were similar to yours--230-240Fs mostly -- on the 85F day. Not sure on coolant. The rpms see to have a direct effect on temps. For example, heel-and-toeing down from high speed (5th to 2nd) will move temps up a bit, but they quickly cool down in seconds once the motor rpms come down a bit and the air is hitting the car at speed.

[Arizona Vipers]

Having a lean state will also generate too much heat no? .

Yeah i would assume so. The motor would have to work harder to make the same power...

[G37Sam]

Yeah i would assume so. The motor would have to work harder to make the same power...

And in-cylinder temps would sky rocket. I'd be very careful of driving a lean running motor hard.

[FLATOUT]

The water pump from Arrow wasn't anything special, it was a known, working, and correctly functioning OEM pump. Since these cars rarely overheat on track it can be a bit tough to diagnose, so if you seemingly have an odd ball gen IV or V that consistantly sees elevated temps it's probably worth checking the pump.

[ViperGeorge]

I can't get my car even close to overheating. I don't think it went over 200* at Daytona a week ago. I'll look at my data later tonight when I post some vids.

My Gen 4 ACR never got remotely hot. It would run 200 coolant all day long on the track. Oil temps were never an issue either. The Gen 5s are different animals though. SRT says the engine is good to 255 coolant but that just seems really hot.

[aNinjaneer]

Ok, I took the car to lunch to see if it would overheat and it ran in the 190's.
The engine threw a code, P0174 "Fuel System 2/1 Lean" see attached picture. Could this be from running 100 octane?

16962

I'll be taking the car to Eddie soon to have everything double checked and will order the upper radiator hose and blueprinted water pump and maybe the underdrive pulley.

It could be... Is it leaded 100 octane? Could have killed one of the O2 sensors. Other than that, the 100 octane fuel shouldn't throw your trims off that much. Running lean could increase your EGTs, for sure, but your cooling system should be able to keep up with that. Get it to someone with a factory scan tool to properly diagnose it.

[ViperGeorge]

You may have, but I'd still say there's a possibility you missed some air. Was coolant flowing constantly out of the steam port on top of the upper water neck? Even if it was done properly, I'd give it another go once the car is fully warmed up. Can't hurt, but could fix it.

I also bled my system using the method Dick Winkles advised. It involved jacking one side of car as high as possible and some other stuff I don't remember. It didn't help as there was no air in the system. He also recommended a higher pressure cap which I haven't found yet. I did install a spring in the upper hose. The spring came out of a hose for a 2005 Viper Truck I think. Funny that they put a spring in the Viper truck hose and not the Viper.

[Arizona Vipers]

It could be... Is it leaded 100 octane?
No it's unleaded

[Stubbygda]

I also bled my system using the method Dick Winkles advised. It involved jacking one side of car as high as possible and some other stuff I don't remember. It didn't help as there was no air in the system. He also recommended a higher pressure cap which I haven't found yet. I did install a spring in the upper hose. The spring came out of a hose for a 2005 Viper Truck I think. Funny that they put a spring in the Viper truck hose and not the Viper.

Here is the radiator cap that mark pointed me to jegs part # 710-63328 radiator cap 27-29 lbs. i have been running it and has presented no issues. I mostly track at vir, I dont short shift, and have a ta 2.0. The highest coolant temps i have seen are around 235 in 25 min session. I ran yesterday with the chin guys with the arrow pcm for first time and temps were a little higher than normal probably because runs a bit leaner? Amb temp mid 80s high coolant 220. I did notice significantly higher exhaust temps on side sills with arrow pcm. I wonder if its the decel burbble? I would gladly eliminate that for cooler side sills.

[ViperGeorge]

Here is the radiator cap that mark pointed me to jegs part # 710-63328 radiator cap 27-29 lbs. i have been running it and has presented no issues. I mostly track at vir, I dont short shift, and have a ta 2.0. The highest coolant temps i have seen are around 235 in 25 min session. I ran yesterday with the chin guys with the arrow pcm for first time and temps were a little higher than normal probably because runs a bit leaner? Amb temp mid 80s high coolant 220. I did notice significantly higher exhaust temps on side sills with arrow pcm. I wonder if its the decel burbble? I would gladly eliminate that for cooler side sills.

Did the cap make any difference in temps?

[Stubbygda]

Did the cap make any difference in temps?

I think it is primarly to stop cavitation as the temps get high. Come to think of it i dont think I ever tracked the car without it. Maybe mark can chime in with better info.

[BLUETA#1]

Since my name is bing tossed around, I will comment. The temp in my car would gradually work its way up...it would take 15 minutes. If you are having overheating issues in 3 laps then you have other issues. Something is blocked or not working properly. Its not the same issue that I had so I would not throw parts at this until more testing is done.

I also changed a sensor...it was reading 15 degrees higher than the "real temp!"

[Arizona Vipers]

I also changed a sensor...it was reading 15 degrees higher than the "real temp!"

WTF! What sensor was reading 15* off?
I dont think mine is doing the same thing as i pitted out when I saw mid/high 230's and then car shut off and i puked coolant as temps rose instantly after car shut off

Thanks.

[darbgnik]

WTF! What sensor was reading 15* off?
I dont think mine is doing the same thing as i pitted out when I saw mid/high 230's and then car shut off and i puked coolant as temps rose instantly after car shut off

Thanks.
If you pitted immediately without a cool down lap, that could cause the coolant puking at least?

[Arizona Vipers]

You may have, but I'd still say there's a possibility you missed some air. Was coolant flowing constantly out of the steam port on top of the upper water neck? Even if it was done properly, I'd give it another go once the car is fully warmed up. Can't hurt, but could fix it.
Yeah, it was just water, no air, and i bled it while the car was still very hot. Will check again!

[Arizona Vipers]

If you pitted immediately without a cool down lap, that could cause the coolant puking at least?

Yes, correct. I did this because I didn't want to stall on track and the car has been shutting off once it's in the mid 240's.

[Vprbite]

I also changed a sensor...it was reading 15 degrees higher than the "real temp!"

I recall this being an issue on Gen IIs. People would be worried cause their gauge would be indicating way way high but when they measured it simultaneously it actually wasn't up where the gauge indicated.

Of course that is where it is reading higher than it was running. OP is of course having a real heat issue. I wish I could be more helpful. I really do, ZonaVipers. I'd be glad to go out to the track and help you try some stuff out there if you want to try swapping part A for Part B kind of thing and checking the difference. Am glad to help you as a second set of hands and help you log data and check temps. Whatever I can do to help. Let me know.

[nuviper]

My car is a stock TA 2.0 2015. I have driven it for around 20 track days with no problems on the coolant temperature. But yesterday I noticed this problem that some of the forum members here encountered before. I went to Gingerman Raceway yesterday afternoon with temperature being more than 82F at sometimes. After around 20 min driving my coolant temperature went to 240F with the red warning flash on, so I cool down for a lap and then start to push again and the temperature again goes to 240F.

After the track event I have some thoughts:
(1) After that high coolant temperature session I found that I forgot to turn off the auto AC, that may be one of the cause for this high temperature. Unfortunately, that was my last session so I could not test the temperature after turning off the AC. Maybe next time;
(2) I changed to a more aggressive gear selection strategy this time and use 2nd gear as much as possible. This definitely generate more heat.
(3) I let my friend, a more exprienced driver drove the car for several laps. His lap time was a lot faster than mine, not because of the acceleration (he only used 3-4 gears), but because of his racing line and speed control (not over slow). For these laps the coolant temperature only reached 213F. So the temperature It does not simply relate to you lap time. It relates more to how you beat your car ;).

[Arizona Vipers]

My car is a stock TA 2.0 2015. I have driven it for around 20 track days with no problems on the coolant temperature. But yesterday I noticed this problem that some of the forum members here encountered before. I went to Gingerman Raceway yesterday afternoon with temperature being more than 82F at sometimes. After around 20 min driving my coolant temperature went to 240F with the red warning flash on, so I cool down for a lap and then start to push again and the temperature again goes to 240F.

After the track event I have some thoughts:
(1) After that high coolant temperature session I found that I forgot to turn off the auto AC, that may be one of the cause for this high temperature. Unfortunately, that was my last session so I could not test the temperature after turning off the AC. Maybe next time;
(2) I changed to a more aggressive gear selection strategy this time and use 2nd gear as much as possible. This definitely generate more heat.
(3) I let my friend, a more exprienced driver drove the car for several laps. His lap time was a lot faster than mine, not because of the acceleration (he only used 3-4 gears), but because of his racing line and speed control (not over slow). For these laps the coolant temperature only reached 213F. So the temperature It does not simply relate to you lap time. It relates more to how you beat your car ;).

Yeah being in 2nd gear on the track will shoot your temps up to 240 pretty quick.

[q8blueviper]

My car is a stock TA 2.0 2015. I have driven it for around 20 track days with no problems on the coolant temperature. But yesterday I noticed this problem that some of the forum members here encountered before. I went to Gingerman Raceway yesterday afternoon with temperature being more than 82F at sometimes. After around 20 min driving my coolant temperature went to 240F with the red warning flash on, so I cool down for a lap and then start to push again and the temperature again goes to 240F.

After the track event I have some thoughts:
(1) After that high coolant temperature session I found that I forgot to turn off the auto AC, that may be one of the cause for this high temperature. Unfortunately, that was my last session so I could not test the temperature after turning off the AC. Maybe next time;
(2) I changed to a more aggressive gear selection strategy this time and use 2nd gear as much as possible. This definitely generate more heat.
(3) I let my friend, a more exprienced driver drove the car for several laps. His lap time was a lot faster than mine, not because of the acceleration (he only used 3-4 gears), but because of his racing line and speed control (not over slow). For these laps the coolant temperature only reached 213F. So the temperature It does not simply relate to you lap time. It relates more to how you beat your car ;).


I'm having same exact issue with my car , difference is that mine has belanger full exhaust system.

I had no issues @ Bahrain int. circuit but when I tried tracking @ Kuwait motor town I noticed temperature reaching 240F especially that I'm using 2nd gear more often !

[Voice of Reason]

The only way I know to be fast around Gingerman is to use 2nd gear, I've tried using just 3-4 and it's not enough to pull out of the slower corners. Have you ridden with your friend or seen how he drives around track? What were your lap times?

[serpent]

For those who track religiously, have you taken the vent covers off, wrap the headers in heat tape and get the DSE intake box shield? I wonder if that has helped?

[Arizona Vipers]

The only way I know to be fast around Gingerman is to use 2nd gear, I've tried using just 3-4 and it's not enough to pull out of the slower corners. Have you ridden with your friend or seen how he drives around track? What were your lap times?

Yeah agreed you need to be in the lowest gear you can to get full power. Stay in 2nd, nothing wrong with running close to 240. Car will lose some horsepower from pulled timing, but not near as much lost power as if you were in 3rd gear

[early13viper]

Curious if you ever found the problem?

[Arizona Vipers]

Believe it or not it was a bad computer. The heat at the end of a session must have exposed whatever weakness the computer had. (bad circuit board, something loose who knows) I replaced it problem was gone never happened again.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Hard lines top and bottom ( make sure top line has air bleed)
Water pump that has anti cavitation
Use suction type filler for coolant system. Krontec or Airlift
Bleed system after every track day check and fill.
Leave hood open and up in pits after every run.

Long shot and i wouldnt want this to happen to anyone. Happened in the past to us with some very reputable engine builders. Head gasket coolant holes were to small. The head gasket mfg made a mistake or program error. The engine builder didnt catch it because they had used same part# head gaskets for dozens of builds. Coolant restriction problem didnt show up until extend runs on track. Just a thought.

[sharmut]

Believe it or not it was a bad computer. The heat at the end of a session must have exposed whatever weakness the computer had. (bad circuit board, something loose who knows) I replaced it problem was gone never happened again.

That's interesting, how did you manage to identify the PCM as suspect. I've had my TA go into limp mode twice, both times the ambient temp was over 100* and discounted it to high track temps.

[kriskyk]

Hard lines top and bottom ( make sure top line has air bleed)
Water pump that has anti cavitation
Use suction type filler for coolant system. Krontec or Airlift
Bleed system after every track day check and fill.
Leave hood open and up in pits after every run.

Long shot and i wouldnt want this to happen to anyone. Happened in the past to us with some very reputable engine builders. Head gasket coolant holes were to small. The head gasket mfg made a mistake or program error. The engine builder didnt catch it because they had used same part# head gaskets for dozens of builds. Coolant restriction problem didnt show up until extend runs on track. Just a thought.


Hey TKO can you expand on your remarks regarding the hardlines top and bottom?

Also on the Vaccum filler where are you pulling vaccum from, fill bottle, radiator cap?

Do any lines need to be clamped off to pull vaccum?

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Hey TKO can you expand on your remarks regarding the hardlines top and bottom?

Also on the Vaccum filler where are you pulling vaccum from, fill bottle, radiator cap?

Do any lines need to be clamped off to pull vaccum?

Hard lines top and bottom we mfg. Pretty standard stuff and a great upgrade for any viper and easy to install. Hard lines you eliminate rubber line failure, No problem with line suck down restricting flow, We add air bleeds and quick fills so much easier to bleed air and quick fill if the customer wants that option.

You pull vac from radiator cap to fill system. one trick to make vac fill faster is drill small hole in thermostat if your running thermostat. Krontec makes a great system for evac and fill and we mfg a portable at track fill station that works with Krontecs system. Its real nice and very fast but geared more towards professional motorsport use. Better option for viper owners is airlift. They sell them on ebay, amazon etc and they work great. You will need a small air compressor for the airlift system and a couple of clean 1 gallon containers is a good idea also.

I hope that I answered all questions and my explanations made sense Kirskyk .

[kriskyk]

Hard lines top and bottom we mfg. Pretty standard stuff and a great upgrade for any viper and easy to install. Hard lines you eliminate rubber line failure, No problem with line suck down restricting flow, We add air bleeds and quick fills so much easier to bleed air and quick fill if the customer wants that option.

You pull vac from radiator cap to fill system. one trick to make vac fill faster is drill small hole in thermostat if your running thermostat. Krontec makes a great system for evac and fill and we mfg a portable at track fill station that works with Krontecs system. Its real nice and very fast but geared more towards professional motorsport use. Better option for viper owners is airlift. They sell them on ebay, amazon etc and they work great. You will need a small air compressor for the airlift system and a couple of clean 1 gallon containers is a good idea also.

I hope that I answered all questions and my explanations made sense Kirskyk .

Just sent Martin an email inquiry....

[Arizona Vipers]

That's interesting, how did you manage to identify the PCM as suspect. I've had my TA go into limp mode twice, both times the ambient temp was over 100* and discounted it to high track temps.

It ended up causing other issues, a weird idle at times for example, would surge. I replaced it and all these problems went away, the car never shut off at the track again.

[sharmut]

It ended up causing other issues, a weird idle at times for example, would surge. I replaced it and all these problems went away, the car never shut off at the track again.

I'm going to try wrapping heat shield around the PCM on both the TA and ACR. Won't know the effectiveness until June/July/Aug comes around.

[Old School]

I'm going to try wrapping heat shield around the PCM on both the TA and ACR. Won't know the effectiveness until June/July/Aug comes around.

The PCM itself generates heat and needs to dissipate it.

[Jack B]

The PCM itself generates heat and needs to dissipate it.

There is more outside heat load affecting the pcm than the heat internally generated by the pcm. On the flip side you would think SRT would account for this. As a side note, industrial electronics is UL listed for use where the ambient is 40C or less.