Normal Driving Conditions Warranty Clause

[gmiles]

Guys,

Not that I expected my warranty claim to be covered... but the reason given was a bit odd.
I have a grind while shifting from 2-3 at 6k RPM..

The service manager called the regional rep and the rep said to "tell him to review his warranty, that the 2-3 shift at 6k RPM exceeds the speed limit and therefore that is not considered normal driving conditions and not covered under warranty."

Anybody else heard a similar line?

Geez...

[swexlin]

Guys,

Not that I expected my warranty claim to be covered... but the reason given was a bit odd.
I have a grind while shifting from 2-3 at 6k RPM..

The service manager called the regional rep and the rep said to "tell him to review his warranty, that the 2-3 shift at 6k RPM exceeds the speed limit and therefore that is not considered normal driving conditions and not covered under warranty."

Anybody else heard a similar line?

Geez...

Horseshit, pure and simple. You may need an attorney for this one, I'm sorry to day. How do they know you weren't on a track, or in an emergency situation. So in other words, most any defect that shows over 70 mph (the max speed limit in some areas in this country) wouldn't be warrantied?

[gmiles]

Not worth the legal hassle as it's possible that my mods created the problem.. my issue is they won't even check to see what the problem is... And the mechanic can't replicate the problem because it's illegal on public roads.. and as he said.. "no dealership has a dyno"

I've reviewed my warranty and this is as close as I can find.

3.4 Racing Not Covered
Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing
damage or conditions caused by racing, nor do they
cover the repair of any defects that are found as the result
of participating in a racing event.

[ViperSmith]

Where in the warranty are "normal driving conditions" defined?

[lochnessmonster]

Call FCA customer service and have them open a ticket on the matter. In my dealings with them, they have been very interested in maintaining a good relationship with the customer (me). They contacted the service manager at my dealership right away and started working on a solution to my problem. They were a little slow in returning my phone calls, but ultimately did call me back and the problem was solved. It's worth a try, and won't involve the "legal hassle".

[gmiles]

FCA.. The vehicle is running as designed. No you may not speak to a supervisor as they are unavailable. May I leave a voicemail. No you may not. When would I be able to speak to a supervisor. You will not be able to as the diagnosis is that the vehicle is running as designed. Do supervisors have voicemail. Yes, may I be transferred to that voicemail. No you may not. and around we went.

I was extremely cordial but she followed her script. KD515 Kiera.

[Viktimize]

Where in the warranty are "normal driving conditions" defined?

Bingo! What is normal to me might not be normal to someone else. So unless they defined what "normal driving" is to them, they still liable to honour the warranty.

But you're screwed either way, because even if they want to honour the warranty, the tech still can't recreate the issue. So he can't troubleshoot a problem that does not exist for him.

[lochnessmonster]

Wow!!! Sorry to hear that!!! Very disappointing, and certainly not consistent with the experience I had, although I was dealing with FCA customer service in Canada, but I would expect the service to be just as good down south :(

[gmiles]

I know Loch... it was. I plan to call back tomorrow to see if I just got a bad egg. Anyone have a name or extension of supervisor up there?
Again, not like I expect it to be covered but the method of decline is a bit off. Wasting my time on principle again...

[Rare Snake]

Not worth the legal hassle as it's possible that my mods created the problem.. my issue is they won't even check to see what the problem is... And the mechanic can't replicate the problem because it's illegal on public roads.. and as he said.. "no dealership has a dyno"

I've reviewed my warranty and this is as close as I can find.

3.4 Racing Not Covered
Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing
damage or conditions caused by racing, nor do they
cover the repair of any defects that are found as the result
of participating in a racing event.

Isn't the whole R29 recall petty much based on a "racing condition"?

The engine on about 260 of the above vehicles may experience unintended oil
consumption under rare conditions during high-speed right-hand cornering when
the engine is at light throttle and high RPM, engine oil can be forced into the Make
Up Air hose. This condition may compromise engine durability.

[dewilmoth]

I'm fairly certain the term "racing event" means full blown timed format racing, not even HPDE on a track. I'd totally call their bluff on that one.

[TrackAire]

Jesus....what a cluster F of idiots working at FCA.

Maybe you should just ship your car to Woodhouse or Viper Exchange.

Then again, you can just start powershifting the shit out of your transmission until something breaks in the transmission or the noise is heard at every RPM. They'll cover it then.......

[Martin]

Kind of sounds like they took a look at the mods, and didn't want to tell you that they're denying the warranty because of them. Fighting a Magnuson-Moss battle has gone very bad for a number of dealers as the burden of proof is on them. They might have taken the easy way out by blaming everything on the "no racing coverage" clause - they can claim that since it's not legal to drive the car at those speeds on a public road, you must have been on a racetrack. If you're on a racetrack, you must be racing...

One advantage to this is that if you fight it, it's almost certain that they'll have to reverse their decision and treat it as a warranty claim. At that point, if they come back and then blame the issue on the mods, it would make them look like complete ass-hats for not blaming it on those in the first place.

It's a totally stupid argument for them to make. If a 6000 RPM 2-3 shift isn't something that they believe is a normal driving condition that is perfectly safe for the car to do, then why don't they use today's easy to find technology to prevent it from happening. Just stupid.

[ek1]

Reminds me of my experience with a Chrysler 300M back in 2000. I left the car at the dealer with a complaint of "The steering wheel vibrates at speeds over 60Mph". Picked up the car in the evening, got a printout "Cannot exceed speed limit. Cannot replicate the issue". Guess a process of natural selection bypassed this "employee of the month".

[7TH_SIGN]

Nightmare! It must be the modifications they are using to get out of covering it, supercharger and nitrous. A simple cold air intake has given me trouble in the past with warranty repair.

Didn't some others have issues with 2nd to 3rd shifts?

[98intrigue]

If your transmission is like how mine was, your 3rd gear synchro will soon fail and you won't even be able to use 3rd gear. Not sure how they won't warranty that. Good luck! I had no issue having mine replaced.

[ACRucrazy]

What in the hell..

[The_Ruski_Driver]

What are your mods?

[7TH_SIGN]

What are your mods?

From his signature it looks like, D3 F1X supercharger, Nitrous Outlet 350 shot C23.

[Arizona Vipers]

WOW.
I'm sure you were doing your 6K rpm 2-3 shift on non-public roads, right? There's lots of non government regulated roads on this planet.
Dodge has sponsored 100's of events across the USA over the years that were not on public road, and without speed limits. None of these events have ever voided the Viper's factory warranty.

[Jabba954]

Hah, I had an issue on my McLaren at about 90mph, and for obvious reasons the tech was not allowed to drive that fast on public roadways, so they just had me take the tech for a drive.

[KB Viper]

the motor in my prior 14 let go on a track and i never got 1 ounce of push back from the dealer or fca. i would call back and get in someones ass.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

I'm sure they are busting your balls because of the mods. Like others have said, may be worth calling FCA. Please keep us updated with your progress and good luck.

[Dave1968]

However, if you were FCA, would you cover someone that complained of a problem when they have installed a supercharger, and a 350 nitros shot? Hmmm. Not to be an ass, but I think that's probably pushing it a bit.

[7TH_SIGN]

the motor in my prior 14 let go on a track and i never got 1 ounce of push back from the dealer or fca. i would call back and get in someones ass.

That's not at all difficult with a near to stock car and the recalls with the motor.

However in this case he has an aftermarket supercharger and nitrous. It will take an act of God to cover that under warranty with those mods.

A lot of the times we can get angry at the dealerships however I can't really get mad at FCA or a dealership in this kind of a situation.

I wouldn't expect FCA to give me a new transmission if mine failed while my car was TT. Drop the transmission and rebuild it stronger than stock imo. Not placing blame on anyone just going off the totality of the circumstances.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Just read back to a conversation I had with a very reputable aftermarket shop owner and he does replace 3rd gear with his builds for under a grand. I guess 3rd gear is a known weak link, but hey, if it's under a grand, I'd say fuck it cough it up.

[gmiles]

As I've said, if my mods are shown to have caused the problem then I have zero issue with footing the bill. Heck I'm about to have the 6060 beefed up anyhow. This is merely about the future. I wrote Tim Kunisikis at FCA to get his take.

What if my wheel flew off every time I went 80 mph.. Sir, driving 80 is not normal driving conditions. If you are denying my claim because of my mods man up and say it.
And FCA's scripted stance of "it's operating as designed" is incorrect.

7th... not mad at the dealership or FCA for not wanting to cover it. Irritated at the BS line I was fed. For all you or I know there "could" be a defect in my 6060...
I went back and looked at some older in car vids and the issue was there pre supercharger....


The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is in place for a reason, btw.


I'm going to let it play out.

[gmiles]

Ruski, I plan to replace/alter more than just third so I plan on coughing up even more than that.... I'm looking for differential strengthening options as well. Don't want any sudden left turns.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Ruski, I plan to replace/alter more than just third so I plan on coughing up even more than that.... I'm looking for differential strengthening options as well. Don't want any sudden left turns.

hahaha!! Yea that sudden left scared me. I guess you need a diff upgrade as well when you're at 1000 wheel

[7TH_SIGN]

7th... not mad at the dealership or FCA for not wanting to cover it. Irritated at the BS line I was fed. For all you or I know there "could" be a defect in my 6060...
I went back and looked at some older in car vids and the issue was there pre supercharger....

Trust me brother I know how frustrating of a situation that is. Man it would have been great to have them warranty it before adding the fun parts if the issue was there. Do you think maybe sharing that video with them may help? When I had my paint issues it was a nightmare getting that covered under warranty and the car only had 200 miles on it. I had to do most if not all of the leg work to get it covered.

[gmiles]

7th.. It won't help with the service manager or the contact center worker at FCA.. But Tim did respond within 30 minutes to my email. Tim is Head of Passenger Car Brands - Dodge, SRT, Chrysler and FIAT, FCA - North America.

He said he will get somebody with me asap to work on this, I'll share the videos with them if they want it.
I usually would let someone put themselves in a position where my data/evidence will cause them to take action. Example.. well if you could prove that this was happening before the mods we would cover it.. videos appear.

[7TH_SIGN]

Example.. well if you could prove that this was happening before the mods we would cover it.. videos appear.

Hopefully this happens. I think that's fair for both sides. No reason you should be paying for it if its a manufacture defect and was there before the mods.

[PAVenomRT/10]

I want to add to the consensus above that this is the most absurd, ridiculous response to a warranty claim I have ever heard. There are parts of the country where the speed limit is 85mph and there used to be places where you drove unlimited at your own risk. I don't think there are any places left like that anymore. With high hp cars some nuts would likely test the limits of the car on a public road which would be nuts. In any case how precise is it that the noise occurs only at 6000 rpm? Whatever is creating the noise may also be a problem at lower rpm - just not yet audible. Go to your dealer and then to a higher level person at FCA for help.
PAVenomRT/10

[Stealth]

But Tim did respond within 30 minutes to my email. Tim is Head of Passenger Car Brands - Dodge, SRT, Chrysler and FIAT, FCA - North America.

He said he will get somebody with me asap to work on this, I'll share the videos with them if they want it.

This is impressive on Tim's part!

[Martin]

However, if you were FCA, would you cover someone that complained of a problem when they have installed a supercharger, and a 350 nitros shot? Hmmm. Not to be an ass, but I think that's probably pushing it a bit.

That's where I bet they didn't want to fess up to the fact that they were really giving him grief due to the mods. They've really got to prove that the mods caused the failure, as per Magnuson-Moss. If, say, the tranny case cracked, the driveshaft broke, some internal power-transferring part broke, or the rear end snapped, they could easily say that the torque being generated by the modified engine was way beyond what the car was designed for. But, if this turns out to be a synchro, that argument is harder to make.

My guess is that they're thinking "hey, this guy is no stranger to paying out of pocket for a lot of work done to the car, I'm really not sure what is wrong until I tear things apart, and I really don't know whether those mods caused it or not. Let's try to make him go away and fix it on his own before we open a can of worms..."

[TrackAire]

However, if you were FCA, would you cover someone that complained of a problem when they have installed a supercharger, and a 350 nitros shot? Hmmm. Not to be an ass, but I think that's probably pushing it a bit.

I agree with you and have to amend what I said in my first post.....I did not see the extra power mods as I thought this was a stock car. The dealer may have not warrantied the transmission issue due to the mods and should have stated as such. Theoretically the huge increase in power could have caused a premature transmission failure......that being said, the dealer or FCA should not have denied coverage due to shifting at 6000 rpm, that is stupid and against all logic.

I almost wonder if the dealer even looked under the hood to see the added power modifications. How funny would it be if the dealer didn't even know the car is running around 1000 hp?

[gmiles]

Here's the latest for those interested.. btw. I brought it into them in 700hp mode not 1k. ;-) And they knew the mods ahead of time. I warned them if only to save myself a trip.

OK. Tim assigned a guy to work me through this. He talked with the dealer and the dealer said that "he can take it over to some guys I know with a dyno, and they can tell my what caused the issue with the transmission."
So tell me if I'm off here. Lets say its the synchros... you can put it on the dyno, feel the grind, then tell me what caused it for certain. hmmm.

Not an expert but I have read that the two main causes of synchro issues are clutch failure to disengage and driver error. So how does one tell that a grind is caused by power vs these?
Like I said, I'm about to have it rebuilt anyhow, but if it's ME or the clutch vs power.. i need to know.

I may choose an independent shop vs that one. Another trip to D3! Have to wait until the monsoons stop.. In the meantime I'll change the trans fluid and see if that helps.

[98intrigue]

Here's the latest for those interested.. btw. I brought it into them in 700hp mode not 1k. ;-) And they knew the mods ahead of time. I warned them if only to save myself a trip.

OK. Tim assigned a guy to work me through this. He talked with the dealer and the dealer said that "he can take it over to some guys I know with a dyno, and they can tell my what caused the issue with the transmission."
So tell me if I'm off here. Lets say its the synchros... you can put it on the dyno, feel the grind, then tell me what caused it for certain. hmmm.

Not an expert but I have read that the two main causes of synchro issues are clutch failure to disengage and driver error. So how does one tell that a grind is caused by power vs these?
Like I said, I'm about to have it rebuilt anyhow, but if it's ME or the clutch vs power.. i need to know.

I may choose an independent shop vs that one. Another trip to D3! Have to wait until the monsoons stop.. In the meantime I'll change the trans fluid and see if that helps.
I'm going to go with it's the clutch failing to fully disengage. Not sure how they can tell that on a dyno though?