ACR Wheel & Tire Weights

[lmcgrew79]

While swapping the ACR wheels back out from my TA sidewinders, thought I would weight them.

ACR wheels and Kuhmos
Front 53 lbs per
Rear 68 lbs per

Sidewinders with Pirellis
Front 39 lbs per
Rear 46 lbs per



http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/15C6E8FE-776C-428D-82F8-A81EBE2CAE8F_zpsidfqhnpz.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/6A7972E5-31FE-4069-9323-681EA38901A8_zpse0mjnbrz.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/9A038E52-C832-4BE4-8D20-5B5532DF1605_zps8tmerekw.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/B52E5F38-E52F-43A6-BBAE-DBC05EFF00DB_zpshpestihg.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/438EE915-C2CE-415F-B755-276A7CEC2C5D_zps1bispc18.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/E0B25C18-656B-47F2-9B06-C52D94717117_zpsluswdzur.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/8FFE37F7-69FB-4FFF-86C1-3D22900BBD96_zpsw4rvmnx1.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/B5A71D6C-448D-4717-A5A8-73E265C55571_zpsnt6e7dyx.jpg

[VENOM V]

Yes they are heavy beasts! They beefed them up for the ACR after cracking Sidewinder IIs during testing. All those G's that you will be pulling with that big ass wing and splitter, haha

UPDATE: Rumor debunked. They did not crack any Sidewinder IIs during testing.

[ACR]

Yes they are heavy beasts! They beefed them up for the ACR after cracking Sidewinder IIs during testing. All those G's that you will be pulling with that big ass wing and splitter, haha

Is confirmed they cracked sidewinders?

[XSnake]

Not sure how they could have considering an SW2 won't fit over the CC's which a majority of the test cars had.

[donk_316]

Yes they are heavy beasts! They beefed them up for the ACR after cracking Sidewinder IIs during testing. All those G's that you will be pulling with that big ass wing and splitter, haha

Yeah can you confirm that?

The downforce on an ACR at speed is 2000 pounds at 180mph or someshit like that. Plus the weight of the vehicle at 3500.

So saying that the SW2 can't handle 5500 pounds (or 1375 pounds EACH) seem legit?

[VENOM V]

This is what I had heard, no not confirmed. I'll let you know if I hear any more on the subject.

[lmcgrew79]

Motegi cast wheels have a 1400 load rating and their forged wheels are around 1500. The Sidewinders 2 are made by motegi they are forged and are also engraved with jwl and tdot standards.
I looked into this stuff before ordering the car with steel brakes. Any wheel can fail at the end of the day, but for myself i dont think the wheel is gonna break and fall off, ill keep an eye on them regardless. Ive never heard the acrx argument either being it also made close to the same downforce and grip levels on lightweight sidewinder 1 wheels. The acr wheels look like the same design as the hellcat pretty much to a tee. I would imagine they are stronger and obviously heavier. IMO they also look better than the Sidewinders. Below is alot more info.

What's Involved in These Tests?
I have to be honest here, so far I've only scanned through the JWL/VIA and SAE J2530. So experts please chime in

All these tests are based on the specific load rating of the wheel. For example, a wheel rated at 690 kg will be applied a load derived from 690 kg.

A higher rated wheel will be applied a higher load during the tests, and hence more durable. But of course when the load rating is unnecessarily high, the wheel may become too heavy. Below are the key tests that are performed:
Dynamic Cornering Fatigue Test - This is a test that simulates the forces/moments put on a wheel when the vehicle is turning a corner or going around a curve. For JWL, a bending moment (based on load rating, load radius, offset, etc.) is applied for at least 100,000 revolutions.

One interesting note here is JWL requires a higher safety factor (e.g. more load) for cast wheels (2.0) vs. forged (1.5). I guess this is why a properly designed cast wheel can be just as strong/durable as a forged wheel... but of course the cast may be heavier due to more material used.

Dynamic Radial Fatigue Test - The main purpose of this test is to check the durability of the wheel disc. This is a test that simulates the forces that the wheel experiences with a tire mounted and carrying the weight of the vehicle, passengers and/or cargo.

Here for JWL a radial force 2.25x the load rating is applied for over 500,000 revolutions!

Impact Test - This is a test designed to test the effect on the wheel in the event of an impact to the wheel such as hitting a pot hole or side impact into a curb. This test mainly checks for tire air retention and confirms the strength of the structure joining the rim and disc. The test basically involves the dropping of a weight at various locations on a wheel.

[VENOM V]

Very interesting Luke, thanks for the detailed explanation. You must be an engineer like me, haha.

Sounds like the Sidewinders should hold up just fine. Here is a very approximate wild guess on how the math works out: An extreme loading case would be an ACR in a sweeper cornering hard at 1.3g with say 1200 Lb downforce, and another wild guess that the outside wheels are supporting 80% of the car's weight equally. So loading per outside wheel would be about (3500 Lb + 1200 Lb) x 1.3g x 80% / 2 wheels = ~2,400 Lb. I have no idea if that math is right, just trying to get a ballpark understanding. That is an extreme momentary load. Average loading is much much lower.

Compare that to the dynamic radial fatigue test: 1500 Lb X 2.25 = 3,375 Lb. 2,400 Lb < 3,375 Lb so the wheels should be more than adequate. Looks like you did your homework.

Ok I'm gonna retract my comment about cracking wheels now.

[Nine Ball]

One interesting note here is JWL requires a higher safety factor (e.g. more load) for cast wheels (2.0) vs. forged (1.5). I guess this is why a properly designed cast wheel can be just as strong/durable as a forged wheel... but of course the cast may be heavier due to more material used.

Be careful with the marketing buzz-word "forged". Not all forged wheels are created equal. The Motegi Sidewinder 2 wheel is "rotary forged", not a true forged wheel. The spoke section is still cast aluminum, and the outer barrel is rotary forged, aka flow-formed. These can certainly be strong wheels, but not to be mistaken with a CNC milled 6061-T6 aluminum forged wheel, with forged spokes. I wrote a nice article explaining the differences between wheels, as I hope to educate my customers on why some things cost more than others, why some wheels are safer than others, etc..

https://www.dv8motoring.com/technical-articles/wheel-construction-types/ (http://nineballgarage.com/wheel-construction-types-explained/)

Tony

[Nemesis]

OP what corner balancing system are you using? Thanks.

[Aviator46]

Anyone know the weight difference of just the tires?

[Jack B]

Here is an interesting add-in, my front 18 in sidewinders with corsa's are 44.5 lbs. The tires are 50% worn.

interesting that they are heavier than your 19's, it must be the tires.


While swapping the ACR wheels back out from my TA sidewinders, thought I would weight them.

ACR wheels and Kuhmos
Front 53 lbs per
Rear 68 lbs per

Sidewinders with Pirellis
Front 39 lbs per
Rear 46 lbs per



http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/15C6E8FE-776C-428D-82F8-A81EBE2CAE8F_zpsidfqhnpz.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/6A7972E5-31FE-4069-9323-681EA38901A8_zpse0mjnbrz.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/9A038E52-C832-4BE4-8D20-5B5532DF1605_zps8tmerekw.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/B52E5F38-E52F-43A6-BBAE-DBC05EFF00DB_zpshpestihg.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/438EE915-C2CE-415F-B755-276A7CEC2C5D_zps1bispc18.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/E0B25C18-656B-47F2-9B06-C52D94717117_zpsluswdzur.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/8FFE37F7-69FB-4FFF-86C1-3D22900BBD96_zpsw4rvmnx1.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/lmcgrew79/Autos/2016%20Viper%20ACR/B5A71D6C-448D-4717-A5A8-73E265C55571_zpsnt6e7dyx.jpg

[lmcgrew79]

Be careful with the marketing buzz-word "forged". Not all forged wheels are created equal. The Motegi Sidewinder 2 wheel is "rotary forged", not a true forged wheel. The spoke section is still cast aluminum, and the outer barrel is rotary forged, aka flow-formed. These can certainly be strong wheels, but not to be mistaken with a CNC milled 6061-T6 aluminum forged wheel, with forged spokes. I wrote a nice article explaining the differences between wheels, as I hope to educate my customers on why some things cost more than others, why some wheels are safer than others, etc..

http://nineballgarage.com/wheel-construction-types-explained/

Tony
Wishing you would take my sidewinders in on even trade for the gtd1 :)

OP what corner balancing system are you using? Thanks.
Intercomp Wireless

[FLATOUT]

Great thread.

[mjorgensen]

Anyone know the weight difference of just the tires?

I weighed a rear ACR wheel at 26.5# bare, so the Kumho's are pretty darn heavy compared to Hoosiers or the Pirelli slicks, likely to support the extra DF easily without deforming or odd wear during testing.

[lmcgrew79]

I weighed a rear ACR wheel at 26.5# bare, so the Kumho's are pretty darn heavy compared to Hoosiers or the Pirelli slicks, likely to support the extra DF easily without deforming or odd wear during testing.

Wow they must be really heavy. I have some pirelli pzeros i can weigh. The pirelli slicks are generally ran on high df cars as well, and for the record the rear pirelli slicks are only 325s.

[greygt3]

For those of you that are interested the stock ACR wheel weights are:
front 26.0 lbs.
rear 27.8 lbs.
My RS 100 HRE's weigh:
front 24.2lbs
rear 25.6
I have a set of HRE race wheels coming, the RC line. Fronts are 22.8 and rears are 23.9.

[ACRucrazy]

Super accurate old bathroom scale weights. +/- with red cheese wrapping. YRMV.

[Arizona Vipers]

Wow, the Kumho's are HEAVY! This thread explains part of the reason the ACR is over 200 lbs heavier than my track pack car.

[ACRucrazy]

Tire Rack weights for reference:

P Zero Corsa
26 lbs for 295/30/18
34 lbs for 355/30/19

P Zero
27 lbs 285/35/18
37 lbs 355/30/19

Kumho v720
27 lbs 295/25/19
41 lbs 355/30/19

Michelin Super Sport
28 lbs 285/35/18
35 lbs 345/30/19

Sport Cup 2
26 lbs 295/30/18
35 lbs 345/30/19

Toyo Proxes R888
28 lbs 295/30/18
35 lbs 345/30/19

[serpent]

This thread should be a sticky, VERY USEFUL INFO!

I know the Side winder I on the gen IV ACR tuck in (different offset) but has anyone thought of using a spacer and running with those wheels? I wonder if they clear the front ACR brakes...

[VENOM V]

Yes they are heavy beasts! They beefed them up for the ACR after cracking Sidewinder IIs during testing. All those G's that you will be pulling with that big ass wing and splitter, haha


UPDATE: Rumor debunked by a reliable source. They did not crack any Sidewinder IIs during testing. Further, I've been informed that no small children nor animals were harmed either, except for a poor squirrel that got split by the splitter. Sorry for perpetuating this myth. Rumor has it that Donald Trump was the source of this mistruth, due to his bitterness of overheating in his C7 Z06
:t0135:

[GTSilver]

Tire Rack weights for reference:

P Zero Corsa
26 lbs for 295/30/18
34 lbs for 355/30/19

P Zero
27 lbs 285/35/18
37 lbs 355/30/19

Kumho v720
27 lbs 295/25/19
41 lbs 355/30/19

Michelin Super Sport
28 lbs 285/35/18
35 lbs 345/30/19

Sport Cup 2
26 lbs 295/30/18
35 lbs 345/30/19

Toyo Proxes R888
28 lbs 295/30/18
35 lbs 345/30/19

Great info thanks for sharing, have anyone tried michelin sport cup 2 yet ?

[Nine Ball]

This thread should be a sticky, VERY USEFUL INFO!

I know the Side winder I on the gen IV ACR tuck in (different offset) but has anyone thought of using a spacer and running with those wheels? I wonder if they clear the front ACR brakes...

If you meant running the Gen 4 Sidewinder 1 wheels on the Gen 5 ACR, that would require a 1/2-inch thick spacer to get the proper offset. Spacers are never recommended, especially any thicker than 1/4-inch, otherwise you will need to replace the lug studs to get the extra thread engagement.

If you meant running the Gen 5 ACR wheels on the Gen 4, they will certainly fit as-is. Fronts will be nearly sticking out, but will work.

[Arizona Vipers]

Great thread! Does anyone have the weights of the Hoosiers? I'll weigh next time I buy some!

[ek1]

For those of you that are interested the stock ACR wheel weights are:
front 26.0 lbs.
rear 27.8 lbs.
My RS 100 HRE's weigh:
front 24.2lbs
rear 25.6
I have a set of HRE race wheels coming, the RC line. Fronts are 22.8 and rears are 23.9.

greygt3 - few questions:

1. HRE RC1 seems to have a 5-lug not pattern how do you install them on the Viper, which has 6 lug nuts?
2. How much of a difference would 3.2/3.9 Lbs per corner make on a track?

[ACRucrazy]

Great thread! Does anyone have the weights of the Hoosiers? I'll weigh next time I buy some!

R7 & A7

25 lbs 295/30/18
30 lbs 345/30/19

[greygt3]

greygt3 - few questions:

1. HRE RC1 seems to have a 5-lug not pattern how do you install them on the Viper, which has 6 lug nuts?
2. How much of a difference would 3.2/3.9 Lbs per corner make on a track?

HRE can make certain wheels with a 5 or 6 lug design. It's a no cost option. Every wheel is custom built for each order so they aren't modifying an existing wheel.
As far as the weight goes, any reduction in unsprung weight makes a difference. Will someone of my skill level notice, probably not.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

While swapping the ACR wheels back out from my TA sidewinders, thought I would weight them.

ACR wheels and Kuhmos
Front 53 lbs per
Rear 68 lbs per

Sidewinders with Pirellis
Front 39 lbs per
Rear 46 lbs per

Thanks Luke. THIS IS EXACTLY why I tell HPDE and autocross guys that the unsprung rotating mass of these G5ACR wheels/tires WILL slow you down in your 20-30 minute track sessions and 1-minute X-sessions, not to mention drag racing. This is an endurance-racing wheel engineered primarily around downforce and session length.





[QUOTE=greygt3;213546]For those of you that are interested the stock ACR wheel weights are:
front 26.0 lbs.
rear 27.8 lbs..

Same weight as we first posted back in Sept 2014:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10453-2016-ACR-Wheels-and-Tires-In-Stock-at-PartsRack-2000-Off-MSRP?highlight=partsrack+MSRP

[stradman]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, however it was interesting to read the various weights. Although I do see that the ACR wheels/tires weight more than the sidewinders with slicks, I presume however that the sidewinders don't fit over the CCB's and therefore you will need to change brake discs too right? In that sense how much more or less do the steel rotors weigh and then what is the total unsprung weight per corner? As I gather unsprung weight incorporates wheels tires and brakes right?

[donk_316]

Someone did post that info before.

The ACR tires, wheels and CC brakes weigh more than SW2, p Zero and 2 piece brakes.

I think the CC calipers are much bigger and heavier plus the ACR rims and tires are heavier.

The CC rotor ofcourse is much lighter

[Nick TA]

Anyone know the weight savings of the CCB's on ACR? I wonder if the extra weight of the wheels counter acts the weight savings of the CCB's.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Keep in mind part of the heavy wheel is to handle the additional downforce load. The Forgeline GTD-1 is a lighter wheel that is rated for the additional load, I'm sure there are others.

1of1TA1.0 changed out the TA brakes for the ACR Carbon brakes, ACR setup was 3.4 lbs heaver due to the weight penalty of the wheels/tires but the brake package was 37.4 lbs lighter.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15131-ACR-CCB-s-on-non-ACR-Gen-V/page3?

In conclusion, find a lighter wheel that clears the brakes but can still handle the load (GTD-1, for example) and you’ll have the lightest overall package.

[Arizona Vipers]

I weighed my '16 ACR before and after I switched to 18" Finnspeeds/Hoosiers.
3351 lbs with factory wheels/tires, 3317 lbs with Finnspeeds/Hoosiers. Also keep in mind that the new front wheel is 12" wide and tire is 335. So much bigger tire up front and everything was still 34 pounds less.
Yes the factory wheels are super heavy to handle the 2000 lbs downforce rating at 177mph, but I'll never see above 153 on a track.

[serpent]

I weighed my '16 ACR before and after I switched to 18" Finnspeeds/Hoosiers.
3351 lbs with factory wheels/tires, 3317 lbs with Finnspeeds/Hoosiers. Also keep in mind that the new front wheel is 12" wide and tire is 335. So much bigger tire up front and everything was still 34 pounds less.
Yes the factory wheels are super heavy to handle the 2000 lbs downforce rating at 177mph, but I'll never see above 153 on a track.
Speaking of top speed, what is the highest speed acr owners have reached at Cota? What about road America?

All in all good info, I knew the sidewinder II were lighter, is there a 5 spoke wheel (like the one that's on the tw3rk viper) that's also ultra light? Looking for alternative wheels to the sidewinder IIs.

Edit: for got to mention this, some of the acrs came with the stock x-brace which are heavier than the carbon fiber ones.


Edit2: More wheel weights

Sidewinder II: F 18.7 lbs R 23.1
Venom: F 24 R 28