Gen 5 supercharger???

[TAMPA-G5]

sorry if this is a topic already talked about............ I'm new to forums lol but I'm looking for info on best choice of supercharger for my gen 5 I heard arrow was building a sledgehammer but I called viper exchange and they say they are over a year out on having it ready

[Evan@D3PE]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13122-Greg-Miles-1000whp-PROSPEED750-F1X-Nitrous-Build-by-D3PE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0W7n9QMDWE

[donk_316]

The layout of this message board makes it best to just search before asking. There are tons of buried threads about product releases that aren't in the vendor forums.

[rlhay2]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13122-Greg-Miles-1000whp-PROSPEED750-F1X-Nitrous-Build-by-D3PE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0W7n9QMDWE

But what times does it run with the 6 speed manual transmission?:t0135:

[Evan@D3PE]

But what times does it run with the 6 speed manual transmission?:t0135:

But what does that have to do with a well designed and thoroughly tested/proven supercharger system? :p

[Nightstalker]

:smilielol: :smilielol:

Good one

[Voice of Reason]

Is the Stage 3 "Sledgehammer" Arrow supercharger officially shelved? I haven't heard peep about it since the initial teaser 1+ years ago.

[FLATOUT]

But what does that have to do with a well designed and thoroughly tested/proven supercharger system? :p

Evan do you guys have any 1/4 mile data with the kit at the 750-800rwhp range?

- - - Updated - - -


Is the Stage 3 "Sledgehammer" Arrow supercharger officially shelved? I haven't heard peep about it since the initial teaser 1+ years ago.

Not shelved.

[Coloviper]

Not shelved.

Ha! Ha! Are you under a gag order from the EPA? (Kidding) At least a full sentence of details might be a little more appropriate Andy. Very excited at the potential of that kit. Does it at least seem hopeful it might be released this year? I guess for starters does the kit actually exist or was it still just a concept? Hey we are all expecting a factory like attention to detail and reliability but realize that takes a lot of time effort and a little luck to put together and test. Maybe a thread all to itself is appropriate. If you do, I bet it gets lots of views and traffic, stirring excitement for VE as the initial announcement was a big deal to many. Non response in the fashion above, when you are very open on most all other responses causes concern for those even remotely interested.

[Voice of Reason]

Ha! Ha! Are you under a gag order from the EPA? (Kidding) At least a full sentence of details might be a little more appropriate Andy. Very excited at the potential of that kit. Does it at least seem hopeful it might be released this year? I guess for starters does the kit actually exist or was it still just a concept? Hey we are all expecting a factory like attention to detail and reliability but realize that takes a lot of time effort and a little luck to put together and test. Maybe a thread all to itself is appropriate. If you do, I bet it gets lots of views and traffic, stirring excitement for VE as the initial announcement was a big deal to many. Non response in the fashion above, when you are very open on most all other responses causes concern for those even remotely interested.

Maybe Dodge was able to get it EPA certified so for the final year of production they're going to offer a Hellcat option? That would be amazing if they did so that's the rumor I'm starting.

[rlhay2]

But what does that have to do with a well designed and thoroughly tested/proven supercharger system? :p

Nothing...and still almost everything.

How many of your potential customers are expected to opt for the TH400 transmission?
And how many of your potential customers will keep their manual transmission?

Perhaps you are trying to market to the smaller customer base.
It was your R&D, it is your product to market it as you choose.

[Evan@D3PE]

Nothing...and still almost everything.

How many of your potential customers are expected to opt for the TH400 transmission?
And how many of your potential customers will keep their manual transmission?

Perhaps you are trying to market to the smaller customer base.
It was your R&D, it is your product to market it as you choose.


Evan do you guys have any 1/4 mile data with the kit at the 750-800rwhp range?



Nope, but still not sure how that discredits our supercharger system or has anything to do with this thread? Our supercharger system works, has been used and abused for many miles of daily driving and racing, makes power, doesn't chunk belts, etc, etc. Does Procharger or Whipple have to put an expert driver in every car they make a kit for and run times at every setting to prove they work?

[rlhay2]

Nope, but still not sure how that discredits our supercharger system or has anything to do with this thread? Our supercharger system works, has been used and abused for many miles of daily driving and racing, makes power, doesn't chunk belts, etc, etc. Does Procharger or Whipple have to put an expert driver in every car they make a kit for and run times at every setting to prove they work?

You are being evasive and misdirecting or misinterpreting my statements.
I have not discredited the supercharger package you guys have designed.
So we can leave that stone unturned.

Just run one with the 6-speed transmission that is available to 95% of the Viper customer base.
Or perhaps you intended this system as a drag race package: to be sold with a 3 speed trans with no overdrive.


As for the OP's original question:
The Arrow positive displacement, twin screw supercharger on a large displacement 2-valve motor is going to be an exercise in throttle control and/or traction management.

[Evan@D3PE]

You are being evasive and misdirecting or misinterpreting my statements.
I have not discredited the supercharger package you guys have designed.
So we can leave that stone unturned.

Just run one with the 6-speed transmission that is available to 95% of the Viper customer base.
Or perhaps you intended this system as a drag race package: to be sold with a 3 speed trans with no overdrive.


As for the OP's original question:
The Arrow positive displacement, twin screw supercharger on a large displacement 2-valve motor is going to be an exercise in throttle control and/or traction management.

A supercharger has nothing to do with a transmission. We've shown what the system is capable of and that it can handle any abuse. If/when I decide to run it and try to dial in a 6spd number, or one of our customers does it, I'm sure someone will still have an issue with it and it still won't be the apple to apple comparison you guys are trying to get

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

We also have one that uses a Paxton Novi 2000. Has made 790whp on the 6.5 lbs pulley.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn196/mikewho2k4/IMG_0757_zpsm8prxj5f.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/mikewho2k4/media/IMG_0757_zpsm8prxj5f.jpg.html)

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn196/mikewho2k4/IMG_0808_zpsa1vrtc6f.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/mikewho2k4/media/IMG_0808_zpsa1vrtc6f.jpg.html)

[7TH_SIGN]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

[mjorgensen]

There are a lot of things happening at Arrow as a business whole and they are slammed with work. The S/C project is not over, but resources and politics do play major roles in this type of work since Arrow does have contracts. Also getting company's to make complicated parts for limited runs is not only hard, but expensive. Arrow really wants this S/C package to happen and they have every intension of seen it through there is just no hard timeline they can offer sorry.

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

The kits start at $10,999.00 and go up on there depending on fuel system and engine management options.

[FLATOUT]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

Heads, Cam, full exhaust, tuning, motor out, trans out installation. I could only post the price of the parts, minus exhaust and install to make it "look" much cheaper than it actually is. We advertise and sell everything complete and installed WITH a 12month/12000 mile warranty.

[IndyRon]

I think all the vendors that have posted have a quality product with excellent fit and finish. I get the desire to have times with a 6speed but the reality is we know the power output and can predict with pretty good certainty the timeslips. The 6speed will likely be within a few tenths in ET with a 3-5mph higher trap speed.

The only real question now is whether you want the driving characteristics and torque curve of a well thought out centrifugal system available now or a positive displacement system that may or may not be available anytime soon.

I appreciate the vendors bringing these products to market even if I'm not in the market for them LOL.

[Dman]

Is the Stage 3 "Sledgehammer" Arrow supercharger officially shelved? I haven't heard peep about it since the initial teaser 1+ years ago.

Dodge is really good at secrets, so not hearing anything could mean it's dead or could mean it's announced next week. The Hellcats and the ACR both came out of silence for the most part. It does seem like some teasing would be better than this try at shock & awe they use, I mean who's going to steal their thunder over a SC'd viper? It's not like it's a Camaro vs mustang battle.


As for the aftermarket, are we saying there's no one running one of these kits that has run at the track? The auto trans setup I don't discredit at all, it was a setup for marketing & to set a record & well done. But yea, I don't see that as a setup for the Viper community, and there are installed kits out there, which is awesome, are these guys getting these kits and putting their cars in the garage?? Again, I'm a HUGE fan of D3 / Calvo, etc., amazing stuff, but I agree, not to be taken as demanding or anything, but I'd assume there's track experience with these kits, which would be nice to hear about & see, since if I or 95% of buyers wanted to pull the trigger, the most trans change we'd do is the clutch upgrade. But this is no big deal to me right now, I'm still figuring out if I'm long timing my car, in which case I might be interested, or doing a '17 in which case I wouldn't for quite a while. Meanwhile I wait for my R28 results, lol.

[Evan@D3PE]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

Calvo still has plenty of work to do before his kit is tested and proven and it hasn't shown any promise on stock ECU so I doubt the price would be considered reasonable with a Motec. Just to be clear, there are many situations with stock ecu boosted options where the car has issues and will go into limp mode. It won't prevent the car from making a number on the dyno, which some have done, but it will be miserable to drive. We've tested and solved these issues but I don't know of anyone else who has honestly.

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

Calvo still has plenty of work to do before his kit is tested and proven and it hasn't shown any promise on stock ECU so I doubt the price would be considered reasonable with a Motec. Just to be clear, there are many situations with stock ecu boosted options where the car has issues and will go into limp mode. It won't prevent the car from making a number on the dyno, which some have done, but it will be miserable to drive. We've tested and solved these issues but I don't know of anyone else who has honestly.

Evan, the SC kit has been in a car and working for months now without an issue on Motec. We tried our first HP tuners car last week and had one day with it. Towards the end of the day on the street we were very close to figuring out the rest of the bugs. We do however suggest a good engine management system and the use of knock control which you guys have stated you turn off on everything you guys tune. I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you, nor did I knock your product when I posted to a thread about Gen V Sc's, I would appreciate if you did the same.

[aNinjaneer]

Calvo still has plenty of work to do before his kit is tested and proven and it hasn't shown any promise on stock ECU so I doubt the price would be considered reasonable with a Motec. Just to be clear, there are many situations with stock ecu boosted options where the car has issues and will go into limp mode. It won't prevent the car from making a number on the dyno, which some have done, but it will be miserable to drive. We've tested and solved these issues but I don't know of anyone else who has honestly.

Is this really necessary? We haven't pointed out the numerous issues you guys have had dealing with HPT, or the fact that you decided to gut the car to stuff an auto in there... Why is it so hard for shops to just point out their own accomplishments, instead of attempting to bash other shops? Personally, I wouldn't recommend HPT at all for the Viper, given its issues (that people have found band-aids for), especially if trying to make any amount of considerable power.

James has only had a few days to work on the couple of cars Antonio has built for stock PCM, one with the Novi 2000 and another turbo car. The first was a proof of concept that it could be done, and we drove it around on the street for over a week without any issues. The customer wanted the MoTeC, but it was tested on HPT just to see if it could be done, and it worked just fine, especially given the short window for testing before going MoTeC. Who knows how your car would do without the auto in there. You just did your first HPT s/c customer car recently, and it surely hasn't gotten enough miles for you to claim that it is perfect, and will never go into limp mode, like nearly every single HPT car does at some point. I don't blame any of the limp mode issues on tuners, from any shop, but on HPTs current lack of functionality. They simply haven't unlocked all of the tables required to PROPERLY run the car, especially in boosted applications. The product is still in its infancy.

Can we all just be civil, and not try to point fingers at everyone else? You have a product, that we've complimented plenty of times, and Antonio has products, as well. There is no need for anyone to bash anyone else. Antonio and I have both been completely transparent with everything, and are probably the only people who will be completely honest about the quirks we've run into. I'd rather tell someone we have issues we're sorting out than tell them we've figured everything out, and worry about figuring it out after they've brought in a car.

[FLATOUT]

The kits start at $10,999.00 and go up on there depending on fuel system and engine management options.

I'm trying to understand the pricing of the supercharger packages out there and what all you get for the advertised prices. This is in no way meant to piss anyone off I am just trying to understand.

Is the $10,999.00 inlcuding install, tune, exhaust, or is it the blower package itself minus everything else? And this question is to both shops that are advertising the kits. The base 750 kits out the door installed price is what?

[Dave1968]

There are a lot of things happening at Arrow as a business whole and they are slammed with work. The S/C project is not over, but resources and politics do play major roles in this type of work since Arrow does have contracts. Also getting company's to make complicated parts for limited runs is not only hard, but expensive. Arrow really wants this S/C package to happen and they have every intension of seen it through there is just no hard timeline they can offer sorry.

Perfect! That's all we wanted to hear. I am more than prepared to wait.

Thankyou.

[FLATOUT]

Perfect! That's all we wanted to here. I am more than prepared to wait.

Thankyou.

ViperExchange is funding the entire project with Arrow so whatever is posted by another dealer (no offense to Mark) is acurate to a point but is still a third parties view of what we are doing with our company and the products we (ViperExchange) are bringing to market with Arrow.

I did not elaborate earlier for a reason.

Andy

[Dman]

There are a lot of things happening at Arrow as a business whole and they are slammed with work. The S/C project is not over, but resources and politics do play major roles in this type of work since Arrow does have contracts. Also getting company's to make complicated parts for limited runs is not only hard, but expensive. Arrow really wants this S/C package to happen and they have every intension of seen it through there is just no hard timeline they can offer sorry.

So far they've made other things thought seem impossible happen, like the vert and the targa, so if I were a betting man, I'd put a chip on Prefix, and agree, if it's a "year" away for argument sake, I'd personally have to wait that out and see.

[Evan@D3PE]

Is this really necessary? We haven't pointed out the numerous issues you guys have had dealing with HPT, or the fact that you decided to gut the car to stuff an auto in there... Why is it so hard for shops to just point out their own accomplishments, instead of attempting to bash other shops? Personally, I wouldn't recommend HPT at all for the Viper, given its issues (that people have found band-aids for), especially if trying to make any amount of considerable power.

James has only had a few days to work on the couple of cars Antonio has built for stock PCM, one with the Novi 2000 and another turbo car. The first was a proof of concept that it could be done, and we drove it around on the street for over a week without any issues. The customer wanted the MoTeC, but it was tested on HPT just to see if it could be done, and it worked just fine, especially given the short window for testing before going MoTeC. Who knows how your car would do without the auto in there. You just did your first HPT s/c customer car recently, and it surely hasn't gotten enough miles for you to claim that it is perfect, and will never go into limp mode, like nearly every single HPT car does at some point. I don't blame any of the limp mode issues on tuners, from any shop, but on HPTs current lack of functionality. They simply haven't unlocked all of the tables required to PROPERLY run the car, especially in boosted applications. The product is still in its infancy.

Can we all just be civil, and not try to point fingers at everyone else? You have a product, that we've complimented plenty of times, and Antonio has products, as well. There is no need for anyone to bash anyone else. Antonio and I have both been completely transparent with everything, and are probably the only people who will be completely honest about the quirks we've run into. I'd rather tell someone we have issues we're sorting out than tell them we've figured everything out, and worry about figuring it out after they've brought in a car.

You don't know what you're talking about and should just stay out of it since you didn't build or tune any of the cars in discussion. You make a lot of claims based on assumption and have been corrected various times. Nothing I'm saying is based on anything other than facts. Where do you come off that my car is "gutted" lmao we unbolted one trans and bolted in another, made another shifter bezzle to clear the auto shifter, and the car rolled the scales at 3750lbs, at the same race y'all told me your S/C car would come out and line up and even said everyone would roll across the scales to compare, but nothing. I welcome you to point out any numerous issues we've had or have, my car hasn't gone into limp mode since Viper nationals and on the race tune at 15psi stock computer. Didn't at all at Tx2k after multiple burnouts and hasn't on the street since we first tuned the blower kit.

There is a learning curve for sure, and I've never said y'all wouldn't get it figured out, but my main point was that advertising a supercharger kit for $10,999 that won't work without investing plenty more money is just shady and that's the last thing this market needs

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

You don't know what you're talking about and should just stay out of it since you didn't build or tune any of the cars in discussion. You make a lot of claims based on assumption and have been corrected various times. Nothing I'm saying is based on anything other than facts. Where do you come off that my car is "gutted" lmao we unbolted one trans and bolted in another, made another shifter bezzle to clear the auto shifter, and the car rolled the scales at 3750lbs, at the same race y'all told me your S/C car would come out and line up and even said everyone would roll across the scales to compare, but nothing. I welcome you to point out any numerous issues we've had or have, my car hasn't gone into limp mode since Viper nationals and on the race tune at 15psi stock computer. Didn't at all at Tx2k after multiple burnouts and hasn't on the street since we first tuned the blower kit.

There is a learning curve for sure, and I've never said y'all wouldn't get it figured out, but my main point was that advertising a supercharger kit for $10,999 that won't work without investing plenty more money is just shady and that's the last thing this market needs

I have better things to do all day then to bicker with you Evan. Good luck with everything you guys do over there. The kit is 10,999 for the kit, like I said our price goes up from there depending on if you want drop in injectors and pumps or a complete fuel system. Do you want the kit shipped or installed here? Do you have your own tuner or would you like us to do it? I stated on Williams thread that Hp worked fine on the dyno but we had some issues we are working out on the street. I have never lied or bullshitted my customers. I do prefer Motec and will push it over HPT, but we see that some customers wanted HPT and we started to go into it. You can now stop trying to take what Collin or I say and twist it to make us look bad...... I am sure I can find plenty of statements that contradict what you have say now and what you have said in the past. Good day to you, I got some welding and customers to attend to who don't think we are shady.......

[aNinjaneer]

You don't know what you're talking about and should just stay out of it since you didn't build or tune any of the cars in discussion. You make a lot of claims based on assumption and have been corrected various times. Nothing I'm saying is based on anything other than facts. Where do you come off that my car is "gutted" lmao we unbolted one trans and bolted in another, made another shifter bezzle to clear the auto shifter, and the car rolled the scales at 3750lbs, at the same race y'all told me your S/C car would come out and line up and even said everyone would roll across the scales to compare, but nothing. I welcome you to point out any numerous issues we've had or have, my car hasn't gone into limp mode since Viper nationals and on the race tune at 15psi stock computer. Didn't at all at Tx2k after multiple burnouts and hasn't on the street since we first tuned the blower kit.

There is a learning curve for sure, and I've never said y'all wouldn't get it figured out, but my main point was that advertising a supercharger kit for $10,999 that won't work without investing plenty more money is just shady and that's the last thing this market needs

Come on, dude... Saying I don't know what I'm talking about because I wasn't the one tuning either of these particular cars? I was messing with HPT on Gen Vs before you guys did your first, and way before you owned one. The HPT stuff was passed to James because he can do it during the day time while I'm at work, so I focus only on the MoTeC stuff now. Even if I had no experience with HPT, I'd know just from talking to numerous owners of HPT cars that they all go into limp mode (from various tuners), including yours. Though yours isn't really an apples to apples comparison, given it's an auto, and most issues happen while letting off the throttle after a pull.

We would have loved for the yellow car to go to Viper Nationals, but ultimately, it is a customer's car and he decided not to come. Same reason you guys didn't want to race us at TI in James's car, despite it actually being at the event. I'm not here to point out issues you guys in particular have had, as it is not limited to just you. It's a problem with HPT, and I've never questioned D3's abilities. But, don't tell me your car never went into limp mode, when I've had numerous people tell me you personally told them your car went into limp mode often BEFORE upping the boost and adding the auto. The last person I heard from was AFTER Viper Nationals. It's not a big deal, and it happens to all cars, just don't claim otherwise.

I have no idea what the pricing structure of the kits is, but I would bet the $10,999 is for the kit without tuning, where a customer can choose HPT or MoTeC. Even with MoTeC, it'd still probably be around $25k, which is pretty damn cheap for what it is, especially considering the potential with increased boost. I do believe you guys also offer your kit without installation and tuning, correct? I really don't want to have to dig to find the posts that said so.

My only point was that we (the shop and I, as a third party) would love to be amicable with you, but it seems like every time there is a question of Calvo Motorsports' products, you are the first to publicly bash it. We've heard plenty of stories of experiences with D3, and don't bring them up because it is simply unprofessional. I (again, as a third party, and individual) ask you to please just stick to pointing out the successes of your own products and refrain from bashing other shops, including but not limited to Calvo Motorsports.

[KB Viper]

If I was interested in a supercharged GEN V, without a doubt it would be D3's and Calvo's setup. Tested and proven for a reasonable price. Their other projects speak enough for their quality of work. Still can't believe some people are charging $15k for heads and cam.

VE heads/cam installed and calibrated --14k
American racing headers with cats--3k
3 day install, NEVER going into limp mode and a 12k miles/12 month warranty--PRICLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Thanks Andy and VE!

[donk_316]

There's too much buried information and 3rd person mentions of prices and what packages consist of.

We have vendor forums that no one ever uses.
Maybe Calvo and D3 can detail all their packages there and then people can be pointed to those posts.

So many options out there now I really don't remember which one I was looking at and trying to sift through every thread for the information sucks. I lost interest and moved on to a shiny object on my desk.

[Evan@D3PE]

Come on, dude... Saying I don't know what I'm talking about because I wasn't the one tuning either of these particular cars? I was messing with HPT on Gen Vs before you guys did your first, and way before you owned one. The HPT stuff was passed to James because he can do it during the day time while I'm at work, so I focus only on the MoTeC stuff now. Even if I had no experience with HPT, I'd know just from talking to numerous owners of HPT cars that they all go into limp mode (from various tuners), including yours. Though yours isn't really an apples to apples comparison, given it's an auto, and most issues happen while letting off the throttle after a pull.

We would have loved for the yellow car to go to Viper Nationals, but ultimately, it is a customer's car and he decided not to come. Same reason you guys didn't want to race us at TI in James's car, despite it actually being at the event. I'm not here to point out issues you guys in particular have had, as it is not limited to just you. It's a problem with HPT, and I've never questioned D3's abilities. But, don't tell me your car never went into limp mode, when I've had numerous people tell me you personally told them your car went into limp mode often BEFORE upping the boost and adding the auto. The last person I heard from was AFTER Viper Nationals. It's not a big deal, and it happens to all cars, just don't claim otherwise.

I have no idea what the pricing structure of the kits is, but I would bet the $10,999 is for the kit without tuning, where a customer can choose HPT or MoTeC. Even with MoTeC, it'd still probably be around $25k, which is pretty damn cheap for what it is, especially considering the potential with increased boost. I do believe you guys also offer your kit without installation and tuning, correct? I really don't want to have to dig to find the posts that said so.

My only point was that we (the shop and I, as a third party) would love to be amicable with you, but it seems like every time there is a question of Calvo Motorsports' products, you are the first to publicly bash it. We've heard plenty of stories of experiences with D3, and don't bring them up because it is simply unprofessional. I (again, as a third party, and individual) ask you to please just stick to pointing out the successes of your own products and refrain from bashing other shops, including but not limited to Calvo Motorsports.

My car went into limp mode when we very first tuned it with the blower, we tested and found a solution, it never went into limp mode at 750whp again. We turned the boost up and made 900whp through the auto, it went into limp mode after a couple burnouts at Viper Nationals, has never gone into limp mode since and our standard kit does not and will not ever go into limp mode. I'm the only one who drives my car so nobody else can comment, or has any reason to, because what I've said is true. That's all I've got to say.

[Coloviper]

No dog in the hunt, until I finish pulling the trigger on the GEN V that I am negotiating on at the moment. However I have owned numerous Blown and Turbo'd "tuner cars" both from the tuner factory and after the fact, over the years from Saleens, to Lingerfelter, etc., etc. All I can say is my personal option on blowers in general.

Have had centrifugal blowers (Vortech, Powerdyne, Paxton, Procharger) and in the end, simply not interested in a centrifugal solution anymore. They are a bitch to get tuned and they are always compromising something to make the solution work. Put a lot of money into those solutions, they made good HP but fell short of expectations on just about all of them.

Now my experience with positive displacement blowers has been different. Whipple Blown trucks, Kenny Bell Mustangs, Eatons on New Edge Saleens and TVS on Jeeps. Those positive displacement blown solutions all ran factory like without CEL, without ripping out computers, just without issue. They may not have hit peak power like the rest but they were 100% reliable, no compromises and just simple.

Based upon my 28 years of owning modified cars and some unmodified factory (not tuner but the main manufacturer), I am tired of paying money to solve mine and other's issues. I will pay a premium for factory hot rodded solutions with that reliability, warranty and support. Glad there are some options out there for those who need it now. Works great for you guys. There are some that don't care about all that and just want more power without the drama and all that.

Given the extreme creativity, reliability and attention to detail of what I have seen to date from VE on the active shocks, the big brake package and the heads and cam package for example, it would fill me with ever bit of confidence that if the Sledge comes to light, they will have beat up on it with the miles and hard driving to a level far exceeding what I could do to it and hence deliver a no drama, zero issue package. I am okay with it taking longer to get to market if it delivers at levels that one would only accept from Dodge themselves. I just want to know it is still coming and an real option in the future. If emissions compliant but not certified on factory computer with not other compromises, (as in it would pass a test but they are not guaranteeing it will pass because they did not put money into certifying it.), it will be a huge winner because that will be a true bolt on solution. The heads and cam and these other VE options are true bolt on solutions.

The only troubling thing is why dodge the question again on the Sledge? I read it as Mark was trying to just say something positive or slightly informative to just not leave it 100% open ended. Yet a pissing match pursues and nobody gets to the heart. I feel like I am watching the political debates. Trump and Cruz! I could give a rats ass anything about their wives which is the media BS right now. There is no way I would listen to a Democratic solution as I do not see where it fits. This supercharger question seems to have such parallels to that.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

OP:
Pretty much no reliable turn key option out right now. D3 makes a kit but they have posted no times in a 6 spd or a 1/4 mile with the advertised power level. So in reality, while it works, we don't know how well. If a number is all you are chasing, then sure, go for it, and let us know!

Someone else has said in the thread "there are so many options" but that's not the case. The only reliable and proven option I see currently is the heads/cam but that will run you about 17k all said and done, which to me, is ridiculous.

Calvo makes a proven TT kit but that's going to be more expensive. I know they also have at least 1 SC Paxton option but when you price it out with all the bells and whistles you may as well take the leap to TT and make much more power.
That's just one dudes opinion anyway :)

Personally I would like to see a heads/cam option, or even a cam-only option, and make 650 WHP for under 10k said and done. SC would be nice too but these cars get SO hot already, even stock, I don't see that as an option for the kind of driving I do.

[HANKFAN]

ViperExchange is funding the entire project with Arrow so whatever is posted by another dealer (no offense to Mark) is acurate to a point but is still a third parties view of what we are doing with our company and the products we (ViperExchange) are bringing to market with Arrow.

I did not elaborate earlier for a reason.

Andy

The last I heard the Sledgehammer package was due out this year. Is that still the plan?

[FLATOUT]

Ok I will sum up the comment about VE, Woodhouse, and the Sledgehammer Supercharger so it makes more sense, and I understand your confusion.

Woodhouse has nothing to do with the Sledgehammer package. ViperExchange is behind it with Arrow 100% with no other parties involved. Both Mark and I talk to Arrow on a regular basis so I am sure he's passing on info based on what someone has told him.

I know this because I personally sit in on those conference calls and the meetings at Arrow. Mr. Keating actually made an announcement about the Sledgehammer development at the Sebring race this weekend to the owners that were in attendance discussing a pushed out timeline for bringing the product to market. I am not going into a lot of details because there are still a lot of things up in the air on our end and to comment on them wouldn't do you guys any good.

Andy





No dog in the hunt, until I finish pulling the trigger on the GEN V that I am negotiating on at the moment. However I have owned numerous Blown and Turbo'd "tuner cars" both from the tuner factory and after the fact, over the years from Saleens, to Lingerfelter, etc., etc. All I can say is my personal option on blowers in general.

Have had centrifugal blowers (Vortech, Powerdyne, Paxton, Procharger) and in the end, simply not interested in a centrifugal solution anymore. They are a bitch to get tuned and they are always compromising something to make the solution work. Put a lot of money into those solutions, they made good HP but fell short of expectations on just about all of them.

Now my experience with positive displacement blowers has been different. Whipple Blown trucks, Kenny Bell Mustangs, Eatons on New Edge Saleens and TVS on Jeeps. Those positive displacement blown solutions all ran factory like without CEL, without ripping out computers, just without issue. They may not have hit peak power like the rest but they were 100% reliable, no compromises and just simple.

Based upon my 28 years of owning modified cars and some unmodified factory (not tuner but the main manufacturer), I am tired of paying money to solve mine and other's issues. I will pay a premium for factory hot rodded solutions with that reliability, warranty and support. Glad there are some options out there for those who need it now. Works great for you guys. There are some that don't care about all that and just want more power without the drama and all that.

Given the extreme creativity, reliability and attention to detail of what I have seen to date from VE on the active shocks, the big brake package and the heads and cam package for example, it would fill me with ever bit of confidence that if the Sledge comes to light, they will have beat up on it with the miles and hard driving to a level far exceeding what I could do to it and hence deliver a no drama, zero issue package. I am okay with it taking longer to get to market if it delivers at levels that one would only accept from Dodge themselves. I just want to know it is still coming and an real option in the future. If emissions compliant but not certified on factory computer with not other compromises, (as in it would pass a test but they are not guaranteeing it will pass because they did not put money into certifying it.), it will be a huge winner because that will be a true bolt on solution. The heads and cam and these other VE options are true bolt on solutions.

The only troubling thing is why dodge the question again on the Sledge? I read it as Mark was trying to just say something positive or slightly informative to just not leave it 100% open ended. Yet a pissing match pursues and nobody gets to the heart. I feel like I am watching the political debates. Trump and Cruz! I could give a rats ass anything about their wives which is the media BS right now. There is no way I would listen to a Democratic solution as I do not see where it fits. This supercharger question seems to have such parallels to that.

[FLATOUT]

Not sure where you got 17K from I sell this kit fully installed for $13,999.00

You will pay taxes on the parts but none on the labor so it comes in well short of 17K at ViperExchange.



OP:
Pretty much no reliable turn key option out right now. D3 makes a kit but they have posted no times in a 6 spd or a 1/4 mile with the advertised power level. So in reality, while it works, we don't know how well. If a number is all you are chasing, then sure, go for it, and let us know!

Someone else has said in the thread "there are so many options" but that's not the case. The only reliable and proven option I see currently is the heads/cam but that will run you about 17k all said and done, which to me, is ridiculous.

Calvo makes a proven TT kit but that's going to be more expensive. I know they also have at least 1 SC Paxton option but when you price it out with all the bells and whistles you may as well take the leap to TT and make much more power.
That's just one dudes opinion anyway :)

Personally I would like to see a heads/cam option, or even a cam-only option, and make 650 WHP for under 10k said and done. SC would be nice too but these cars get SO hot already, even stock, I don't see that as an option for the kind of driving I do.

- - - Updated - - -


The last I heard the Sledgehammer package was due out this year. Is that still the plan?

That's the plan but I would say it has a long road ahead to make that happen at the moment.

[TAMPA-G5]

thanks bro I haven't really looked into tt but will do some research

[Evan@D3PE]

OP:
Pretty much no reliable turn key option out right now. D3 makes a kit but they have posted no times in a 6 spd or a 1/4 mile with the advertised power level. So in reality, while it works, we don't know how well. If a number is all you are chasing, then sure, go for it, and let us know!
.

It's completely ridiculous to say our supercharger system isn't proven or reliable because my customer and I haven't put up a 6spd 1/4 mile time.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Not sure where you got 17K from I sell this kit fully installed for $13,999.00

You will pay taxes on the parts but none on the labor so it comes in well short of 17K at ViperExchange.




- - - Updated - - -



That's the plan but I would say it has a long road ahead to make that happen at the moment.

Anyone who is going to spend money to do H/C will have to do headers... I mean you don't HAVE to but you'd be a fool not to. That's the 3k add on

[TAMPA-G5]

How do I get the first one when they do lol ?

- - - Updated - - -



That's the plan but I would say it has a long road ahead to make that happen at the moment.[/QUOTE]

[The_Ruski_Driver]

It's completely ridiculous to say our supercharger system isn't proven or reliable because my customer and I haven't put up a 6spd 1/4 mile time.

I never said that Evan, "So in reality, while it works, we don't know how well."
All I meant was we don't know what kind of times to expect... Lots of people don't even care about that stuff anyway, for me though, I'd like to know if I was going to spend the money

[FLATOUT]

Anyone who is going to spend money to do H/C will have to do headers... I mean you don't HAVE to but you'd be a fool not to. That's the 3k add on

$13,990 INCLUDES HEADERS. That price is completely done, installed out the door. I sould say that it includes full ARH exhaust so that's Headers, high flow cats, ARH Catback, and ARH tips.

[KB Viper]

Ok I will sum up the comment about VE, Woodhouse, and the Sledgehammer Supercharger so it makes more sense, and I understand your confusion.

Woodhouse has nothing to do with the Sledgehammer package. ViperExchange is behind it with Arrow 100% with no other parties involved. Both Mark and I talk to Arrow on a regular basis so I am sure he's passing on info based on what someone has told him.

I know this because I personally sit in on those conference calls and the meetings at Arrow. Mr. Keating actually made an announcement about the Sledgehammer development at the Sebring race this weekend to the owners that were in attendance discussing a pushed out timeline for bringing the product to market. I am not going into a lot of details because there are still a lot of things up in the air on our end and to comment on them wouldn't do you guys any good.

Andy

Andy--will the sledgehammer kit work with the heads/cam Vipers? I understand that it will make less boost due to overlap in the cam but will it be an option for us?
Kris

[FLATOUT]

Andy--will the sledgehammer kit work with the heads/cam Vipers? I understand that it will make less boost due to overlap in the cam but will it be an option for us?
Kris

Possibly if it ever gets done. Spray will come out much sooner for the Heads and Cam kits. We are working on that now.

Andy

[Evan@D3PE]

I never said that Evan, "So in reality, while it works, we don't know how well."
All I meant was we don't know what kind of times to expect... Lots of people don't even care about that stuff anyway, for me though, I'd like to know if I was going to spend the money

Right before that you said "there is no reliable option available" lol. 6spd times are largely dependent on driver and can sway quite a bit so trying to compare one car thats 400lb heavier with X tires and X driver will never be a true measurement compared to a different car, setup, drive. As more get out there I'm sure more times and results will be posted. We'll have the 6spd back in my car sometime next week maybe but haven't decided if I'm worried about chasing the 6spd stuff at X boost with X tire X traction X track, etc

[The_Ruski_Driver]

VE heads/cam installed and calibrated --14k
American racing headers with cats--3k
3 day install, NEVER going into limp mode and a 12k miles/12 month warranty--PRICLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Thanks Andy and VE!


$13,990 INCLUDES HEADERS. That price is completely done, installed out the door. I sould say that it includes full ARH exhaust so that's Headers, high flow cats, ARH Catback, and ARH tips.

Looks like some miscommunication from another member. Thanks for clearing that up Andy and keep making us Gen V owners proud! Looking forward to what you guys bring to the table in 2016!

[TwinVipers]

Blah blah blah blah.....is just shadyand that's the last thing this market needs

You mean the same shady post you first made about you taking the fastest gen 5 title, deliberately leaving out the fact that you had an auto and nitrous installed "for looks only I guess" while emphasizing that you are on the stock ecu? You mean that kinda of SHADY? You sure have the balls and lack of integrity to be calling another tuner that has never criticized you shady and trash their product in order to push yours. As a customer, I would never do business with a shop like yours. Your lack of integrity and etiquette is enough for me to run the other way! try letting your product speak for itself without being such a feminine hygiene product. You will get a better response....

[KB Viper]

Possibly if it ever gets done. Spray will come out much sooner for the Heads and Cam kits. We are working on that now.

Andy

you gona spray?

[NT-ACR]

:fpopcorn:

- - - Updated - - -


Looks like some miscommunication from another member. Thanks for clearing that up Andy and keep making us Gen V owners proud! Looking forward to what you guys bring to the table in 2016!

:t15150:

[Evan@D3PE]

You mean the same shady post you first made about you taking the fastest gen 5 title, deliberately leaving out the fact that you had an auto and nitrous installed "for looks only I guess" while emphasizing that you are on the stock ecu? You mean that kinda of SHADY? You sure have the balls and lack of integrity to be calling another tuner that has never criticized you shady and trash their product in order to push yours. As a customer, I would never do business with a shop like yours. Your lack of integrity and etiquette is enough for me to run the other way! try letting your product speak for itself without being such a feminine hygiene product. You will get a better response....

It was obvious to all, and with many members being there in person, that my car was not on our base supercharger system to run better than a 1100whp TT car and I never claimed it to be 750whp. I'm not going to get into a shit slinging competition but believe me you miss out on a lot that these other people are doing behind the scenes that I know from emails, screen shots, and seeing with my own eyes v.s. the front they put on. Time to start calling people out for what it is and hopefully spare some customers. I've never stated anything but facts that can be proven

[NT-ACR]

It was obvious to all, and with many members being there in person, that my car was not on our base supercharger system to run better than a 1100whp TT car and I never claimed it to be 750whp. I'm not going to get into a shit slinging competition but believe me you miss out on a lot that these other people are doing behind the scenes that I know from emails, screen shots, and seeing with my own eyes v.s. the front they put on. Time to start calling people out for what it is and hopefully spare some customers. I've never stated anything but facts that can be proven

I don't have a dog in the fight but you can't make claims like the ones you did that I've highlighted in bold and not provide evidence. I'm not saying your lying, I'm just saying that if you're going to make an accusation that strong (and potentially harmful) then you should at least back it up with physical evidence.

[TwinVipers]

It was obvious to all, and with many members being there in person, that my car was not on our base supercharger system to run better than a 1100whp TT car and I never claimed it to be 750whp. I'm not going to get into a shit slinging competition but believe me you miss out on a lot that these other people are doing behind the scenes that I know from emails, screen shots, and seeing with my own eyes v.s. the front they put on. Time to start calling people out for what it is and hopefully spare some customers. I've never stated anything but facts that can be proven

I wasn't referring to the added hp you were running but the tranny which wasn't obvious and the nitrous which is "not being used". You boasted a big # in order to sell kits leaving out the most important details! if that's not misleading and the definition of shady, what is? now as far as your beef with Calvo. You guys are not the first tuners in the game to ever clash and name call behind the scenes, steal customers or do other stupid shit to make a buck. This shit happens, But there is this little thing called etiquette and decorum. No one here cares as long as nothing is being done to cheat or hurt fellow members..

[Evan@D3PE]

I wasn't referring to the added hp you were running but the tranny which wasn't obvious and the nitrous which is "not being used". You boasted a big # in order to sell kits leaving out the most important details! if that's not misleading and the definition of shady, what is? now as far as your beef with Calvo. You guys are not the first tuners in the game to ever clash and name call behind the scenes, steal customers or do other stupid shit to make a buck. This shit happens, But there is this little thing called etiquette and decorum. No one here cares as long as nothing is being done to cheat or hurt fellow members..

I boasted a new record, not that our base system was capable of it

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

It was obvious to all, and with many members being there in person, that my car was not on our base supercharger system to run better than a 1100whp TT car and I never claimed it to be 750whp. I'm not going to get into a shit slinging competition but believe me you miss out on a lot that these other people are doing behind the scenes that I know from emails, screen shots, and seeing with my own eyes v.s. the front they put on. Time to start calling people out for what it is and hopefully spare some customers. I've never stated anything but facts that can be proven


Once again you are attacking us instead of answering questions about your business. We will choose not to lower ourselves to this level as it hurts all of us performance shops in the end, but will defend our name is your attacks continue. Like I said I never have once bashed your product. I have praised it and said good job. Not sure why you constantly feel the need to bash us?

[KB Viper]

Looks like some miscommunication from another member. Thanks for clearing that up Andy and keep making us Gen V owners proud! Looking forward to what you guys bring to the table in 2016!

To be clear I paid 3k for headers with cats back in Jan of 15, 11 months before I sent my car to VE for heads/cam. So what I posted is what I paid.

[socal]

Quick question Evan. What does the car dyno or run on the spray? Just curious, seeing how it's been on that car for a while. Cheers

[Evan@D3PE]

Quick question Evan. What does the car dyno or run on the spray? Just curious, seeing how it's been on that car for a while. Cheers

I have truly never sprayed it. The first time we ever filled the bottle was at the track for Viper Nationals and another racer actually ended up borrowing it and still has it till this day. I'm not interested in hurting the motor and we're already making a chunk of power and torque. We have a great relationship with nitrous outlet and before we did the auto swap and raised the boost I installed the nitrous kit with the intention of spraying on top of the 750whp the standard blower kit makes. I still plan on going back to that once the 6spd goes back in and now that we've improved the record a little more

[gmiles]

I own the car D3 just finished. It had a 250shot Nitrous Outlet kit running C16 tuned by Karger and installed by Anything Automotive... following what Will Dugas did.. HPT. Never hit limp mode.. 813whp/875tq. I Run Nt05R's.. I don't drag race much but I ran one N20 Pass and did a 10.3 @ 146.9.. Slips and vid posted on this site.

Wanted a bit more daily power that could be upgraded in stages. Visited Calvo, very impressed, but wasn't ready for the full TT setup. Saw D3's Supercharger thread on this site.. visited. Saw that I could move to 750-800 in budget.. and over 1000whp using my existing N20 setup and my Belanger headers and cat delete. Phase II would be ProEFI or Motec and fuel system additions when I need more. Probably move faster to phase II for better traction control.
The D3 setup met my needs in my situation. Evan and Chris were great and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.
I roll race.. I probably won't even run it from a dig so what time it runs the 1/4 in is irrelevant to me. But if I do I'll surely post it for the group.

So far the new F1X setup is phenomenal... Still breaking in the McLeod clutch. No limp mode. Great street manners.. heck, my wife drives it now and then.

The gen V viper community should be happy to have D3, Calvo, Karger, Anything Automotive, ViperExchange, etc in the mix. Competition breeds innovation.

G

[Coloviper]

Ok I will sum up the comment about VE, Woodhouse, and the Sledgehammer Supercharger so it makes more sense, and I understand your confusion.

Woodhouse has nothing to do with the Sledgehammer package. ViperExchange is behind it with Arrow 100% with no other parties involved. Both Mark and I talk to Arrow on a regular basis so I am sure he's passing on info based on what someone has told him.

I know this because I personally sit in on those conference calls and the meetings at Arrow. Mr. Keating actually made an announcement about the Sledgehammer development at the Sebring race this weekend to the owners that were in attendance discussing a pushed out timeline for bringing the product to market. I am not going into a lot of details because there are still a lot of things up in the air on our end and to comment on them wouldn't do you guys any good.

Andy

Thanks Andy, that is good news for now. Still being worked on and sounds promising but issues being addressed. The last thing anyone needs is a rush to market solution that is not vetted to the nth degree. For me anyway, when I take the plunge on these big dollar upgrades, I would expect only 100% reliability, support and satisfaction. Will wait as others for the no drama option. So close to finalizing my GEN V purchase.

Thanks again.
Rick

[Jdmuscle]

I own the car D3 just finished. It had a 250shot Nitrous Outlet kit running C16 tuned by Karger and installed by Anything Automotive... following what Will Dugas did.. HPT. Never hit limp mode.. 813whp/875tq. I Run Nt05R's.. I don't drag race much but I ran one N20 Pass and did a 10.3 @ 146.9.. Slips and vid posted on this site.

Wanted a bit more daily power that could be upgraded in stages. Visited Calvo, very impressed, but wasn't ready for the full TT setup. Saw D3's Supercharger thread on this site.. visited. Saw that I could move to 750-800 in budget.. and over 1000whp using my existing N20 setup and my Belanger headers and cat delete. Phase II would be ProEFI or Motec and fuel system additions when I need more. Probably move faster to phase II for better traction control.
The D3 setup met my needs in my situation. Evan and Chris were great and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.
I roll race.. I probably won't even run it from a dig so what time it runs the 1/4 in is irrelevant to me. But if I do I'll surely post it for the group.

So far the new F1X setup is phenomenal... Still breaking in the McLeod clutch. No limp mode. Great street manners.. heck, my wife drives it now and then.

The gen V viper community should be happy to have D3, Calvo, Karger, Anything Automotive, ViperExchange, etc in the mix. Competition breeds innovation.

G

Couldn't have said it better... Gents.. Can we all get along?

[ViperSmith]

Does everything on this site have to devolve into a dick measuring contest?

[Dave1968]

Ok I will sum up the comment about VE, Woodhouse, and the Sledgehammer Supercharger so it makes more sense, and I understand your confusion.

Woodhouse has nothing to do with the Sledgehammer package. ViperExchange is behind it with Arrow 100% with no other parties involved. Both Mark and I talk to Arrow on a regular basis so I am sure he's passing on info based on what someone has told him.

I know this because I personally sit in on those conference calls and the meetings at Arrow. Mr. Keating actually made an announcement about the Sledgehammer development at the Sebring race this weekend to the owners that were in attendance discussing a pushed out timeline for bringing the product to market. I am not going into a lot of details because there are still a lot of things up in the air on our end and to comment on them wouldn't do you guys any good.

Andy

Thanks very much for giving us what you can Andy. I'll wait 'till they have everything ironed out and do the complete install all at once.

Dave.

[Dman]

Does everything on this site have to devolve into a dick measuring contest?

"yes"

- Capt Obvious.

[donk_316]

Does everything on this site have to devolve into a dick measuring contest?

I would win so I stay out of these conversations to let everyone else feel good about themselves.

[FLATOUT]

Thanks very much for giving us what you can Andy. I'll wait 'till they have everything ironed out and do the complete install all at once.

Dave.

Absolutely, but honestly everyone needs to prepare themselves for the posibility that it might not ever come to market.


I would win so I stay out of these conversations to let everyone else feel good about themselves.

That made me laugh during a ver busy day :D

[rlhay2]

Does everything on this site have to devolve into a dick measuring contest?

It's a small pond with a sizable number of Alpha fish...it's going to happen.

[V10powerr]

its tough to disclose every single thing in any statement- maybe all claims should end with, "feel free to ask for details", lol

[NT-ACR]

I would win so I stay out of these conversations to let everyone else feel good about themselves.

:smilielol::Canada::smilielol:

[johnnybravo]

I would win so I stay out of these conversations to let everyone else feel good about themselves.

That's only because you start your measurement at the back of the balls. That's cheating. It's supposed to be shaft length only.

Oh yeah. And I have a Paxton Novi2500 on my Gen 2. So I can say I'm sort of staying on topic.

[ViperPete]

Sounds like VCA in here....

[Disturbed]

It's stuiped to be arguing over a 9sec pass. It would be great to focus that energy into getting a G5 into the 6's.

[7TH_SIGN]

It's stuiped to be arguing over a 9sec pass. It would be great to focus that energy into getting a G5 into the 6's.

Lol I agree. Or at least the 7s. 9s are so 15 years ago... :D

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

Lol I agree. Or at least the 7s. 9s are so 15 years ago... :D

Working on 8's.......Last few pieces of the puzzle showing up this weekend!

[Vipes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0W7n9QMDWE

Awesome vid!! :dude3:

[504voodoo]

Does everything on this site have to devolve into a dick measuring contest?

until someone comes out with really nice, quality parts that are expensive, but well worth it- then their "big dicks" turn in to "little vaginas" with complaints about the prices lol

[TwinVipers]

Working on 8's.......Last few pieces of the puzzle showing up this weekend!

Driver mod? :D