Help with buying a Viper

[Enzo101]

Good morning members,
I recently joined the VOA because I have been looking a Viper and would like to get some information before I make a serious inquiry. I do apologize if these topics have all been covered. This car will be for my dad, he is looking for a retirement celebration vehicle. I let him drive my 2016 GT350 and he said it was too raw for him, that and finding another one at sticker is near impossible. He likes the Corvette but is not a GM fan. Thankfully, there is a certified SRT dealer near our hometown so a Viper looks much more appealing. The car in question is a "Used" 2013 SRT Viper Launch Edition. It has 132 miles on it and the dealership is asking $83,995 for it. I saw a 2013 down in Texas brand new sell for $70,000 under sticker but it was yellow. So here are my questions.

1) What is a good price to pay for the vehicle listed above? I was thinking half of sticker.
2) What are service cost like? (oil changes, filters cost, oil cost, ect.)
3) Are there any issues with it being a 13 and first year of production?
4) Are there any ways to keep the bottom of the seats from wrinkling? I've seen a few V gen Vipers with this issue.
5) How raw is it compared to the GT350? (I understand it is a totally different car but he wants something that is comfortable and can perform well)
6) Is the front bumper low enough that is scrapes on speed bumps or parking curbs?
7) What is sticker of a launch edition Viper?
8) Do you think because it is 1 of 150 it may be valuable one day? This doesn't have an affect on the purchase, just curiosity.
9) Do the side pipes cause a lot of in cabin heat? If so, are there aftermarket ways to fix this?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and any and all help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
-G

[13COBRA]

If he thinks the GT350 is too raw, he won't like a Viper.

I had my GT350 for less than 36 hours, decided it wasn't exciting enough, then sold it and purchased my ACR within a week.

[Enzo101]

I was afraid it was going to be to hardcore for him.

[Policy Limits]

1.) Wholesale is 60k, retail 75-80k 2.) Change oil twice per year, 300 bucks. 3) yes 5 recalls make sure they were addressed. 4) not really 5) can't comment haven't driven both, different leagues I suspect 6) 5 inches of clearance. Angle it and you're fine 7) 140k loaded 8) no 9) no again but careful exiting with shorts on

Great time to buy, 50 pennies on the dollar is a deal.

[Enzo101]

Thank you! This is very helpful. I was going to start negotiating at 60k and hope to be in the low 70s.

[98intrigue]

1) What is a good price to pay for the vehicle listed above? I was thinking half of sticker. I think the listed price is already a fantastic deal for a launch edition. I'm actually surprised at the prices I've been seeing LEs listed for. Six months ago, they were still in the upper $80Ks to low $90Ks and now I've seen a couple listed in the low $80Ks. If you don't care about mileage, I saw one listed at $69K with 22k miles on it.
2) What are service cost like? (oil changes, filters cost, oil cost, ect.) It's a relatively low maintenance car. Oil changes, if done yourself, can be done for around $60.
3) Are there any issues with it being a 13 and first year of production? There's a handful of recalls that you'll need to check on. http://recalls.mopar.com/
4) Are there any ways to keep the bottom of the seats from wrinkling? I've seen a few V gen Vipers with this issue. The laguna leather seats on the GTS are known for this. The standard sabelt leather seats, alcantara insert seats, and ballistic nylon seats don't seem as bad.
5) How raw is it compared to the GT350? (I understand it is a totally different car but he wants something that is comfortable and can perform well) I haven't driven/ridden in a GT350, but I don't think the Viper is anything to concerning.
6) Is the front bumper low enough that is scrapes on speed bumps or parking curbs? You'll be fine. I haven't scraped my TA once, which has the front splitters reduces clearance by about 2.5".
7) What is sticker of a launch edition Viper? It was $140,490, but that was before the $15,000 price reduction.
8) Do you think because it is 1 of 150 it may be valuable one day? This doesn't have an affect on the purchase, just curiosity. Maybe one day...but not anytime soon. The '96 blue/white cars are fetching good money for being 20yrs old, but they still haven't caught up to their original MSRP.
9) Do the side pipes cause a lot of in cabin heat? If so, are there aftermarket ways to fix this? Nothing compared to Gen 3/4 cars, but you can feel a good amount of heat if you stick your hand between the seat and side sill. You can purchase high flow cats or remove the cats all together, which greatly reduces the amount of heat caused by the 2 cats on each side of the car.

[13COBRA]

If he wants a neat car that is comfortable, a Challenger HC would probably be more up his alley.

[ViperSmith]

While I haven't driven a 350. I'd have to assume on the "raw" scale it is a 5.5/10 - the Viper is probably more a 8/10.

Those are good prices for those vehicles. Taking prices of what a 3 year old car sold as new on a dealer lot shouldn't indicate what they are going for price wise.

[swexlin]

If he wants a neat car that is comfortable, a Challenger HC would probably be more up his alley.


This was going to be my suggestion as well. Fast, comfy, can be had auto or stick. The Gen 5, while waaaay more comfy and composed than previous gens, is still a "raw" car compared to many.

[Enzo101]

Thank you! @98intrigue

[Enzo101]

We drove a 2016 SRT 392 and it was very nice! If the Viper doesn't work out that'll probably be the way to go. The Hellcat is a bit much and its impossible to test drive one. He likes the looks of the viper and the deals that they have right now.

[Enzo101]

It's actually pretty raw for a Mustang. This is coming from someone that hasn't had a real sports car. It'll be used for rallies and weekend trips so it being super raw may not be an issue. Have to drive one first.

[13COBRA]

The 13/14 GT500 was much more "raw".

[Enzo101]

Lol well yeah hahaha all that HP and a solid rear axel isn't the best for handling. Which is why he didn't buy one.

[TheKosherStogie]

^I believe you emailed me yesterday.

Goodluck with the search!

[lochnessmonster]

From what I can gather thus far, your father hasn't actually driven the Viper. I would suggest that he does the same with the Viper as he did with the GT350. Now, I haven't driven a GT350, but I can't imagine it being more "raw" than a Viper. There are many things about the Viper that make it both unique and unapologetic at the same time. Ingress and egress are issues for some people, and given that your father is purchasing this car as a retirement celebration car, I'm gathering he isn't in his 30's or 40's. I have absolutely no problem getting in and out of the car, but I would suggest that isn't going to be the case for everyone, and particularly someone further on in life. The GT350, I would imagine is much easier to get in and out of. Also, calling visibility out of the Viper "poor" is probably an understatement. He needs to drive the car to actually realize that, whenever you are trying to pull out of a parking lot etc., you must absolutely have the car at a 90 degree angle to the road you are going to pull out onto, or there will be no way you can see oncoming traffic from both directions. Does he want to drive a stick shift forever? The ride quality in my GTS is quite good in street mode for a car that is essentially a race car for the street, but by no means is it "comfortable." You still feel every bump, pebble, and imperfection in the road. Is he going to want to deal with this? Is storage capacity an issue? The Viper has a generous amount of storage for a supercar/racecar but by no means is it ample relative to other vehicles. Is he going to want to carry two golf bags or just one? If the answer is "two", forget it.

I would suggest that all of these issues be address before you or he even think about price, resale value, curb scraping, and service costs. Quite honestly, from what you've said, I don't think the Viper is the car for him. Like a woman, yes, it's absolutely gorgeous, and without question, it's going to make him want to take it out for dinner, and have a lot of fun afterwards, but is he really prepared to live with it on a daily basis?

[Dman]

Maybe you can get a test drive since it has miles on it.

Based on your #5, I'd have to agree, Viper probably isn't even a consideration. I've had 11 mustangs, including multiple GT500's, I have a '14 now and have driven a GT350, the GT350 is tame and easy compared to the GT500, and both are luxury cars by comparison to a viper, even a GTS. I'll take my wife out to dinner in the city or on a country multi-hour cruise in the GT500, the Viper, not so much, and I have a loaded GTS.

The wrinkle in the seats looks worse than it is IMO, I find in pics mine shows like it's wrinkled but in person it looks like rich leather, awesome.

As for rarity, actually the LE at 150 of them is one of the highest production numbers and is anything but rare, for example there are 53 black with silver stripe GTSs in 2013 which seems like a common combo, and 150 of the LE, 3 times as many of those, for a viper to be rare, you want under 50 made IMO, and 1of 1 is the ultimate, I personally see the LE as a bargain car, very early production so it can have bugs, but negotiating an extended warranty takes care of that.

I agree with the other posts above on other items, but unless he can test drive it, if the GT350 is too raw, I'd say pass big time on the viper. I would recommend a hellcat, especially a Challenger with 6 speed, what a blast of a car & you could drive those 24 hours & be comfy.

[Dman]

Lol well yeah hahaha all that HP and a solid rear axel isn't the best for handling. Which is why he didn't buy one.

You'd be surprised. On trackdays my '14 GT500 easily drives around 911s, race prepped WRXs, vettes, I driven around multiple Z06s and a calloway. The GT500 is hugely underestimated on the road course, I love taking it out there and the reaction of people after a few sessions and how they can't believe how it handles compared to the field. Yes, some of it is certainly the driver, and I run a much improved wheel/tire setup, and 703rwhp, but you know, that's it. lo

[kbench55]

We drove a 2016 SRT 392 and it was very nice! If the Viper doesn't work out that'll probably be the way to go. The Hellcat is a bit much and its impossible to test drive one. He likes the looks of the viper and the deals that they have right now.

You can adjust the horsepower on the Hellcat down to 500 hp. Once he gets comfortable with it at that level maybe it won't be too much for him to bump it to the 707 hp. This way you get the power of the SRT 392 but the benefit of having the extra power if or when he wants it.

I have driven both a 392 and a hellcat and the ride is not much different they are both nice in that respect.

[swexlin]

You can adjust the horsepower on the Hellcat down to 500 hp. Once he gets comfortable with it at that level maybe it won't be too much for him to bump it to the 707 hp. This way you get the power of the SRT 392 but the benefit of having the extra power if or when he wants it.

I have driven both a 392 and a hellcat and the ride is not much different they are both nice in that respect.

This exactly! Hellcat or nothing if going SRT8.

[darbgnik]

I think the wrinkling is because they used real leather with the Laguna interiors, not that fabric bonded "leather" you'll find in Escalades, Rams, etc. FWIW, I love the nylon seats, but for everyone that thought they wanted real leather, now you have it..... But I agree it looks less relevant in person.

Also, I love the Viper, but raw is an understatement. He should really drive one, an extended test drive, to know what he's in for. The Challenger is less "sportscar" than both the Viper and GT350, but it would still be a fun car.

[Coloviper]

Raw can mean different things to different people. For example, raw to me is how the car rides. A hopped and solid suspension race car is a raw car. The power, idle, gas mileage, interior features or lack there of, etc. might be raw to another individual.

So if raw to your Dad means how the car rides and a GT350 would qualify as raw, then I would make the following suggestion. Pick up a used GTS model car (13/14). Some can be had in low 70s with low miles. Then put on the Viper Exchange shock package so you can use the center console to change settings or a MCS suspension system dialed down on the softest settings. Plan on a new set of Pirelli tires and that will make the car ride like a boulevard cruiser. It just takes the harshness out of the car. As sound also contributes to a driving experience, find one with a stock exhaust and a 18 speaker stereo upgrade because then it gets the additional sound deadner from the factory. The only other potential dial in for comfort or less rawness is to consider to have the seats redone by Venzano. Some complain about the bottoms and backs not having enough padding. Venzano can fix that. I rode in one with the Venzano fix and it was very, noticeable in a good way.

Most Vipers owners like to brag about their rawness Viper, but the GEN V is a pussy cat in rawness factor compared to a GEN I. Hope it helps! It sounds like your Dad has already been attracted to the Viper based upon your comments but the cost new is what has held him back. In the end, if that is the case, you can get a GT-350 for him but remember he will still want a Viper. The Viper owners and Viper family contribute to 1/2 of the enjoyment of the car, when you look at the overall ownership experience. Being born a Blue Oval boy and owning a ton of Mustangs over the years, I eventually worked up to a Viper. Truth be told, I don't even look twice at a Mustang now. I still have a place in my heart for them (and own a few collector Saleens) but owning a Viper and interacting with the Viper passionate owners, is a whole other experience entirely. I think your Dad will value that experience beyond the car itself.

[Enzo101]

From what I can gather thus far, your father hasn't actually driven the Viper. I would suggest that he does the same with the Viper as he did with the GT350. Now, I haven't driven a GT350, but I can't imagine it being more "raw" than a Viper. There are many things about the Viper that make it both unique and unapologetic at the same time. Ingress and egress are issues for some people, and given that your father is purchasing this car as a retirement celebration car, I'm gathering he isn't in his 30's or 40's. I have absolutely no problem getting in and out of the car, but I would suggest that isn't going to be the case for everyone, and particularly someone further on in life. The GT350, I would imagine is much easier to get in and out of. Also, calling visibility out of the Viper "poor" is probably an understatement. He needs to drive the car to actually realize that, whenever you are trying to pull out of a parking lot etc., you must absolutely have the car at a 90 degree angle to the road you are going to pull out onto, or there will be no way you can see oncoming traffic from both directions. Does he want to drive a stick shift forever? The ride quality in my GTS is quite good in street mode for a car that is essentially a race car for the street, but by no means is it "comfortable." You still feel every bump, pebble, and imperfection in the road. Is he going to want to deal with this? Is storage capacity an issue? The Viper has a generous amount of storage for a supercar/racecar but by no means is it amble relative to other vehicles. Is he going to want to carry two golf bags or just one? If the answer is "two", forget it.

I would suggest that all of these issues be address before you or he even think about price, resale value, curb scraping, and service costs. Quite honestly, from what you've said, don't think the Viper is the car for him. Like a woman, yes, it's absolutely gorgeous, and without question, it's going to make him want to take it out for dinner, and have a lot of fun afterwards, but is he really prepared to live with it on a daily basis?

You bring up some very good points! He loves manuals and it is becoming harder and harder to find. He is 65 and getting in and out is an issue. We have been unable to locate one, nearest one is about 200 miles away besides the one mentioned. I asked about service because we were looking into a GTR but service was way to expensive for his taste so it is something to consider. I have yet to see the trunk of one but I will be in Memphis tomorrow to take a look at one at a dealer and be able to answer some of the questions that you asked. I really appreciate the response!

[Enzo101]

Maybe you can get a test drive since it has miles on it.

Based on your #5, I'd have to agree, Viper probably isn't even a consideration. I've had 11 mustangs, including multiple GT500's, I have a '14 now and have driven a GT350, the GT350 is tame and easy compared to the GT500, and both are luxury cars by comparison to a viper, even a GTS. I'll take my wife out to dinner in the city or on a country multi-hour cruise in the GT500, the Viper, not so much, and I have a loaded GTS.

The wrinkle in the seats looks worse than it is IMO, I find in pics mine shows like it's wrinkled but in person it looks like rich leather, awesome.

As for rarity, actually the LE at 150 of them is one of the highest production numbers and is anything but rare, for example there are 53 black with silver stripe GTSs in 2013 which seems like a common combo, and 150 of the LE, 3 times as many of those, for a viper to be rare, you want under 50 made IMO, and 1of 1 is the ultimate, I personally see the LE as a bargain car, very early production so it can have bugs, but negotiating an extended warranty takes care of that.

I agree with the other posts above on other items, but unless he can test drive it, if the GT350 is too raw, I'd say pass big time on the viper. I would recommend a hellcat, especially a Challenger with 6 speed, what a blast of a car & you could drive those 24 hours & be comfy.

I had no idea the viper was that raw of a car. The previous gen yes but not the new one, not that there's anything wrong with that. That's the appeal of the Viper. I'm hoping to test drive one soon to make a final decision on it. Again idc about if it'll appreciate over time. It was more of a curiosity thing but thank you for your insightful input!

[Enzo101]

You can adjust the horsepower on the Hellcat down to 500 hp. Once he gets comfortable with it at that level maybe it won't be too much for him to bump it to the 707 hp. This way you get the power of the SRT 392 but the benefit of having the extra power if or when he wants it.

I have driven both a 392 and a hellcat and the ride is not much different they are both nice in that respect.

Totally forgot about being able to change the horsepower. The dealer right down the road just got a white on tan. If it had a stick I probably would not have posted anything on this forum and it would be sitting pretty next to the 350.

[lochnessmonster]

You bring up some very good points! He loves manuals and it is becoming harder and harder to find. He is 65 and getting in and out is an issue. We have been unable to locate one, nearest one is about 200 miles away besides the one mentioned. I asked about service because we were looking into a GTR but service was way to expensive for his taste so it is something to consider. I have yet to see the trunk of one but I will be in Memphis tomorrow to take a look at one at a dealer and be able to answer some of the questions that you asked. I really appreciate the response!

I wouldn't be surprised for one second that one or more of the members in the VOA would gladly let you guys check their car out, and maybe even take your father for a spin. I doubt they'd let him drive it, but who knows. You might want to query the guys here and see what you can arrange. :)

[Enzo101]

Raw can mean different things to different people. For example, raw to me is how the car rides. A hopped and solid suspension race car is a raw car. The power, idle, gas mileage, interior features or lack there of, etc. might be raw to another individual.

So if raw to your Dad means how the car rides and a GT350 would qualify as raw, then I would make the following suggestion. Pick up a used GTS model car (13/14). Some can be had in low 70s with low miles. Then put on the Viper Exchange shock package so you can use the center console to change settings or a MCS suspension system dialed down on the softest settings. Plan on a new set of Pirelli tires and that will make the car ride like a boulevard cruiser. It just takes the harshness out of the car. As sound also contributes to a driving experience, find one with a stock exhaust and a 18 speaker stereo upgrade because then it gets the additional sound deadner from the factory. The only other potential dial in for comfort or less rawness is to consider to have the seats redone by Venzano. Some complain about the bottoms and backs not having enough padding. Venzano can fix that. I rode in one with the Venzano fix and it was very, noticeable in a good way.

Most Vipers owners like to brag about their rawness Viper, but the GEN V is a pussy cat in rawness factor compared to a GEN I. Hope it helps! It sounds like your Dad has already been attracted to the Viper based upon your comments but the cost new is what has held him back. In the end, if that is the case, you can get a GT-350 for him but remember he will still want a Viper. The Viper owners and Viper family contribute to 1/2 of the enjoyment of the car, when you look at the overall ownership experience. Being born a Blue Oval boy and owning a ton of Mustangs over the years, I eventually worked up to a Viper. Truth be told, I don't even look twice at a Mustang now. I still have a place in my heart for them (and own a few collector Saleens) but owning a Viper and interacting with the Viper passionate owners, is a whole other experience entirely. I think your Dad will value that experience beyond the car itself.

I totally agree with your statement about rawness. Ride and sound are the two main factors. Getting him a GT350 is out of the question. It took 6 months to get mine and a lot of hair pulling out from dealers saying they want X amount over. Honestly, he could have cared less about the new Viper. He was working at the time and didn't have a need for one but now it's a different story. Plus, with them not selling as well as expected you can get great deals on new ones or very low mile ones. It's hard to say no to $60,000 off sticker price for what is basically a new car. I'll have to do some research into the modifications you suggested. I love the Viper family atmosphere. I personally have not owned a Viper but talking to a few people that do they all seem to be the most wonderful type of car enthusiast. Not so much with some Corvette and Shelby owners I've met. Thank you for your help!

[Enzo101]

I wouldn't be surprised for one second that one or more of the members in the VOA would gladly let you guys check their car out, and maybe even take your father for a spin. I doubt they'd let him drive it, but who knows. You might want to query the guys here and see what you can arrange. :)

I would very much appreciate that! Being new on the forum I realize there are some trust issues but if there are any members that would be so gracious as to meet my father and I and get a ride I would very much appreciate it. And heck we can go for a nice long cruise......if they can keep up hahahaha!

[Terminator02]

Hey OP, why would the car appreciate over time when you want to get the car at 50% value and it's not even old yet? Clearly your 350 GT is not 50% value because the community that supports that car really helps keep values up... Even on terminators. Only here do people bash the car and the values so much and penny pinch for every dime. Classic 96 blue and white are 20 years old and not even at sticker for non driven ones. No this likely won't appreciate but it's only the communities problem. The car is hand built and the best bang for for the buck in the Super car world but lately it's a lot of people who can't afford the cars that buy them and downplay their worth. It's easily worth much more than its given credit for. Sorry for the rant, it's not your fault but it's amazing how a new person comes here and already knows to negotiate for half price on a car 5x superior to the 350 Mustang and they go over sticker.

[BRACR]

Hellcat. Multiple colors.....even plum crazy with carbon fiber stripes!

[Enzo101]

Hey OP, why would the car appreciate over time when you want to get the car at 50% value and it's not even old yet? Clearly your 350 GT is not 50% value because the community that supports that car really helps keep values up... Even on terminators. Only here do people bash the car and the values so much and penny pinch for every dime. Classic 96 blue and white are 20 years old and not even at sticker for non driven ones. No this likely won't appreciate but it's only the communities problem. The car is hand built and the best bang for for the buck in the Super car world but lately it's a lot of people who can't afford the cars that buy them and downplay their worth. It's easily worth much more than its given credit for. Sorry for the rant, it's not your fault but it's amazing how a new person comes here and already knows to negotiate for half price on a car 5x superior to the 350 Mustang and they go over sticker.

I'm not claiming anything at all. I've been paying attention to the Viper market recently and have found some incredible deals with some Vipers. Half of sticker for a 2013 "used" Viper is just a starting point. I payed sticker for my 350 because I felt that's what it is worth and it was a car I desperately wanted and I have not been disappointed. I honestly could care less if the 350 or the Viper appreciate overtime. Cars, for me, are not investments but something to get from point A-B.......in a timely mater. I agree that for the money it is the best car you can get. My dad is not one of those people that cannot afford the vehicle, thankfully through years of hard work, he is able to purchase a car like a Viper and not think twice. However, just because he can does not mean he should. I want him to be happy with the purchase and came here to get info from actual owners instead of reading reviews from car magazines. Also, just because I am new to the forum does not mean I have not done my research. Validating it through owners is the best way to get answers to questions I am unsure of.

- - - Updated - - -


Hellcat. Multiple colors.....even plum crazy with carbon fiber stripes!

When did they come out with carbon fiber stripes!? Is that new for 2016?

[ViperSmith]

They are Vinyl

[Terminator02]

I'm not claiming anything at all. I've been paying attention to the Viper market recently and have found some incredible deals with some Vipers. Half of sticker for a 2013 "used" Viper is just a starting point. I payed sticker for my 350 because I felt that's what it is worth and it was a car I desperately wanted and I have not been disappointed. I honestly could care less if the 350 or the Viper appreciate overtime. Cars, for me, are not investments but something to get from point A-B.......in a timely mater. I agree that for the money it is the best car you can get. My dad is not one of those people that cannot afford the vehicle, thankfully through years of hard work, he is able to purchase a car like a Viper and not think twice. However, just because he can does not mean he should. I want him to be happy with the purchase and came here to get info from actual owners instead of reading reviews from car magazines. Also, just because I am new to the forum does not mean I have not done my research. Validating it through owners is the best way to get answers to questions I am unsure of.

- - - Updated - - -



When did they come out with carbon fiber stripes!? Is that new for 2016?

Respectfully, you are missing my point. It wasn't an attack on you. But how can one ask a question on car appreciation whilst also going for a vehicle that sells with a heavy discount. We can't read the future but can definitely go off the present and as you pointed out, the cars sell quite cheap. So it likely won't appreciate any faster than the 96 bw manual v10 with the classic and timeless lines. I'm glad I didn't collect a 96 because 20 years is a long time and they haven't appreciated to MSRP with 50 miles of them.

Again, appreciation speculation and negotiating heavy discounts on a car people aren't buying are counterintuitive thoughts. My response has nothing to do with you doing anything wrong nor was I questioning paying sticker on a stang. They are sticker because they have a community that backs the value of their vehicles better than ours. I'm knocking people on this forum not you. I've been a viper member on various forums for over 12 years and I have never seen a group try so hard to devalue another members car. So I was not surprised you already knew how to approach pricing because you are a PERFECT example of why prices are low. You research the forum as any smart Internet person would do and see this price talk and then value based on what you read. I always said we the community are negatively impacting pricing.

And we wonder why people who pay for the Viper a steal of a deal cry when they go to sell it. Well it's because every post is someone bragging about why the car is worth X Y OR Z.

To your topic. Your father won't like the Viper. Plain and simple. It's riding position, it's more raw than the stang, is all hood and bumpy (I have the GT) . Hellcat is an outstanding option. I really think that he would love.

[Enzo101]

They are Vinyl

I figured that lol. Cool option though! Thanks for letting me know!

[Enzo101]

Respectfully, you are missing my point. It wasn't an attack on you. But how can one ask a question on car appreciation whilst also going for a vehicle that sells with a heavy discount. We can't read the future but can definitely go off the present and as you pointed out, the cars sell quite cheap. So it likely won't appreciate any faster than the 96 bw manual v10 with the classic and timeless lines. I'm glad I didn't collect a 96 because 20 years is a long time and they haven't appreciated to MSRP with 50 miles of them.

Again, appreciation speculation and negotiating heavy discounts on a car people aren't buying are counterintuitive thoughts. My response has nothing to do with you doing anything wrong nor was I questioning paying sticker on a stang. They are sticker because they have a community that backs the value of their vehicles better than ours. I'm knocking people on this forum not you. I've been a viper member on various forums for over 12 years and I have never seen a group try so hard to devalue another members car. So I was not surprised you already knew how to approach pricing because you are a PERFECT example of why prices are low. You research the forum as any smart Internet person would do and see this price talk and then value based on what you read. I always said we the community are negatively impacting pricing.

And we wonder why people who pay for the Viper a steal of a deal cry when they go to sell it. Well it's because every post is someone bragging about why the car is worth X Y OR Z.

To your topic. Your father won't like the Viper. Plain and simple. It's riding position, it's more raw than the stang, is all hood and bumpy (I have the GT) . Hellcat is an outstanding option. I really think that he would love.

I think I did misinterpret what you were saying and did not mean to come off with a negative view towards you or your opinion. Normally I would not have asked but since it has the word "Edition in it I figured I would ask. I've been amazed at how "cheap" the Viper sells for, even a 2016 model on a dealer lot. I, along with people like myself, do not mean to devalue the Viper. I just want the best deal possible on a truly astonishing vehicle. A main reason the Viper is even being considered is the upcoming regulations on vehicles. Unfortunately, cars like the Viper are not meant for this world much longer, mainly the engine and inability to put side curtain airbags on it. That's why I got the 350, thinking it is one of if not the last N/A big V8 Mustangs to be produced. I see that with the Viper and think it would be a great time to buy such a vehicle. I think in a way he will like the Viper mainly because of what he expects from a vehicle. You expect a Challenger to have good power and ride like a couch, you expect a Rolls to drive like you a separate from the outside world and make you feel drowned in opulence, you expect a Viper to be hardcore and 'Murican as F***. We drove a late model Gen 4 with the ACR areo package. He loved it but they wanted a stupid amount of money for it. I think $100,000ish and it had heavy mileage. And he would prefer to have some of the new safety features that are available on the Gen V. Anyway I do appreciate the help!

[swexlin]

If he drove a Gen4 ACR and liked it, then he may indeed like the Gen 5.

[lochnessmonster]

Two words: backup camera. I wouldn't own this car without it. I believe it is only available on the GTS, but I could be mistaken.

[ClayR]

Two words: backup camera. I wouldn't own this car without it. I believe it is only available on the GTS, but I could be mistaken.

It's in the GT as well. I know because I'm driving one now.

[TheKosherStogie]

Two words: backup camera. I wouldn't own this car without it. I believe it is only available on the GTS, but I could be mistaken.

my TA has it ...

[swexlin]

Don't have one on the Viper, but now that I've experienced it on the Ram, I really am seriously considering having one retrofitted on the Viper.

[Enzo101]

Two words: backup camera. I wouldn't own this car without it. I believe it is only available on the GTS, but I could be mistaken.

For sure!

[darbgnik]

Two words: backup camera. I wouldn't own this car without it. I believe it is only available on the GTS, but I could be mistaken.

All 2015s and up have it.

[evomind]

I think some owners kinda "shoot the messenger" with this stuff.
You cant fault a guy for seeking out a good deal and negotiating strongly on the price of a car.
Any car.
Most buyers have walked into the show half way through the movie and the market for used Vipers is what it is. They have always depreciated very heavily the first few years and then hold steady. True for every Viper gen.
The "community" of owners for a certain car hardly set the market. Many factors determine resale price.
Aside from all the nuances of limited production vehicles, generally speaking owners do not set the market, buyers do.

[ViperSmith]

I think some owners kinda "shoot the messenger" with this stuff.
You cant fault a guy for seeking out a good deal and negotiating strongly on the price of a car.
Any car.
Most buyers have walked into the show half way through the movie and the market for used Vipers is what it is. They have always depreciated very heavily the first few years and then hold steady. True for every Viper gen.
The "community" of owners for a certain car hardly set the market. Many factors determine resale price.
Aside from all the nuances of limited production vehicles, generally speaking owners do not set the market, buyers do.

Everyone wants the best possible sale price. Yet, get upset when people want the best possible selling price. We've seen in here. People have gotten cars $50k off MSRP then upset when they also get beaten down on price. They then bemoan prices are "garbage."

You can't have it both ways.

[darbgnik]

Everyone wants the best possible sale price. Yet, get upset when people want the best possible selling price. We've seen in here. People have gotten cars $50k off MSRP then upset when they also get beaten down on price. They then bemoan prices are "garbage."

You can't have it both ways.

It's true. You see a guy post about getting his new car for X dollars a year ago, then you see them try to sell it for the same price, plus the full cost of paint protection........... weird.

Don't get me wrong, it's great if you can do that, but don't complain that all of a sudden your car is hard to sell.

[ClayR]

It's true. You see a guy post about getting his new car for X dollars a year ago, then you see them try to sell it for the same price, plus the full cost of paint protection........... weird.

Don't get me wrong, it's great if you can do that, but don't complain that all of a sudden your car is hard to sell.

A car is one of the only items people brag about getting it the cheapest. No one brags about how cheap their house cost. It's weird.

[evomind]

It's true. You see a guy post about getting his new car for X dollars a year ago, then you see them try to sell it for the same price, plus the full cost of paint protection........... weird.

Don't get me wrong, it's great if you can do that, but don't complain that all of a sudden your car is hard to sell.

I think some people get upset when they buy an expensive car brand new, maybe put very few miles on it and then see people buying the same low mile car for 2/3rds the price.
IDK, but thats how it goes. Were on the 5th gen now so there shouldnt be any surprises.

Anyway, if the gt350 is too raw the Viper isnt the car I would recommend.
Maybe a Corvette? Still cool, still kinda fast but easier to live with and he can DD it if he wants.
The Hellcat or something is a good idea or maybe even one of the supercharged Cadillacs?

[Aspirations57]

It's true. You see a guy post about getting his new car for X dollars a year ago, then you see them try to sell it for the same price, plus the full cost of paint protection........... weird.

Don't get me wrong, it's great if you can do that, but don't complain that all of a sudden your car is hard to sell.

You really dont get it drab, ALL 13,14,15...Viper resale will always be hurt from the multiple recalls on ALL Viper models because of POOR quality control on Dodges part! Iam asking full price plus clear-bra but why not? Find a 156.4K GTS with every option like my car. The fact that this Gen. has many issues, most minor and one major, one will make it impossible to get a fair resale unless sold to someone who does not do their homework..My car only calls for R29 but I have absolutely no faith in Dodge that my engine is "safe",lol..


A car is one of the only items people brag about getting it the cheapest. No one brags about how cheap their house cost. It's weird.
I will be the first then, my California home is worth more than double of what we paid for it which was close to 2 mil....You do know there are people who make a living buying homes and selling them,lol, we just got lucky and dont plan to sell but everything has a price.

[Enzo101]

I think some people get upset when they buy an expensive car brand new, maybe put very few miles on it and then see people buying the same low mile car for 2/3rds the price.
IDK, but thats how it goes. Were on the 5th gen now so there shouldnt be any surprises.

Anyway, if the gt350 is too raw the Viper isnt the car I would recommend.
Maybe a Corvette? Still cool, still kinda fast but easier to live with and he can DD it if he wants.
The Hellcat or something is a good idea or maybe even one of the supercharged Cadillacs?

Here's the list I made incase the Viper doesn't work.
Corvette Z06/ maybe wait for the Grand Sport
Hellcat/392
Mercedes AMG GT S
Cadillac CTS V

[evomind]

Here's the list I made incase the Viper doesn't work.
Corvette Z06/ maybe wait for the Grand Sport
Hellcat/392
Mercedes AMG GT S
Cadillac CTS V

He might even like a GTR.

[Aspirations57]

15 CTS-V Coupe with a MT6......556HP

[serpent]

Here's the list I made incase the Viper doesn't work.
Corvette Z06/ maybe wait for the Grand Sport
Hellcat/392
Mercedes AMG GT S
Cadillac CTS V
Not sure about the AMG GT S, that would be my choice though. Not sure about because Benz resale plummets fast. But if you have the funds by all means!

[str8boss]

I was afraid it was going to be to hardcore for him.

I have a few video reviews https://youtu.be/kh00BpKWm5o on my viper. Maybe they will help answer some questions

[Enzo101]

He might even like a GTR.

The GTR was my first choice and I was going to get one instead of the 350 but the service is just way too much. A friend owns one and sent me a list. The tranny fluid alone is 800ish and the tranny fluid change itself is around $1800.

[Enzo101]

Not sure about the AMG GT S, that would be my choice though. Not sure about because Benz resale plummets fast. But if you have the funds by all means!

Personally, I think it will be the best option. From what Motortrend said, taken with a grain of salt, it's an awesome machine.

- - - Updated - - -


I have a few video reviews https://youtu.be/kh00BpKWm5o on my viper. Maybe they will help answer some questions

Thanks! I will watch them now. Subscribed as well!
Just watched your first impressions, 5 things you loved, 4 things you hate, and the exhaust comparison. Awesome videos! Really helped out a lot. I did notice it was quite loud in the cabin and the sounds is so unique and muscular.

[lochnessmonster]

It seems to me that resale value may not be much of a consideration given that it's a retirement car, and if I was your father, I'd likely be looking at putting the car in my will, rather than dealing with the hassle of selling it at some point.

As others have mentioned, it sounds like the GT and TA also have backup cameras. I'm not sure if this is standard equipment on those cars, or if it had to be added as an option. In any event, I would suggest that you factor in the inclusion of this feature as a priority if you get serious about the car. I agree that the Merc AMG GT S is probably a better way to go. But I would suggest that the Merc is going to set your father back in the neighbourhood of $40-50K above a Viper. It may be more, but I don't think it would be less. Is it worth that kind of cash? One thing I have heard a lot of people commenting about is the "daily driver" aspect of the Viper. I have to say, I use mine as a daily driver when winter has passed, and I don't have any problems. Actually, the Viper has a surprising amount of ground clearance in the front if the suspension and wheels are kept stock. It's quite livable.

Edit - Another thought: What are the maintenance costs on the Merc? You had indicated that the GTR has significant maintenance costs. I can't even imagine what the Mercedes shops are charging................

[swexlin]

If I lived in a warm weather area (like Florida) I would semi-daily drive mine.

As an aside, if you read the original 2013 Viper brochure, backup cameras were to be standard on all trim levels, and then that was changed at the last minute, I believe they are now though. As I mentioned above, I didn't really miss it (although it would make getting out of my TIGHT garage less nerve-wracking). But now that my new Ram has one, wow, I agree, it is almost a must have. Not a deal breaker, but good to have none the less.

[kbench55]

My 2014 SRT has the backup camera. I thought that I read some where that from 2014 up all models had the back up camera.

[swexlin]

My 2014 SRT has the backup camera. I thought that I read some where that from 2014 up all models had the back up camera.

I think this is correct.

[lochnessmonster]

If I lived in a warm weather area (like Florida) I would semi-daily drive mine.

As an aside, if you read the original 2013 Viper brochure, backup cameras were to be standard on all trim levels, and then that was changed at the last minute, I believe they are now though. As I mentioned above, I didn't really miss it (although it would make getting out of my TIGHT garage less nerve-wracking). But now that my new Ram has one, wow, I agree, it is almost a must have. Not a deal breaker, but good to have none the less.


There is one key advantage about the backup camera that has to be emphasized. It is when you are backing out of a parking spot, into traffic, and there is a vehicle parked on your passenger side. One of the biggest problems with the Viper is the lack of visibility out of where the "C" pillar is/would be. With the backup camera, as you are pulling out of the parking space, you can see all the way down the street for oncoming traffic, rather than just pulling out until you can see past that car on your right, and hoping that the oncoming traffic stops for you. Essentially, there is no way to see the cars coming until you get past that car on the right and can see down the street out of the passenger window. I wouldn't like that at all. Backing into parking spaces is also made so much easier when lining up the directional indications in the camera. As I said before Enzo101, this is the kind of thing you really don't appreciate or expect until you actually drive the car. It sounds like the backup camera comes standard on '14 models and up......there's a reason for that.............

[swexlin]

There is one key advantage about the backup camera that has to be emphasized. It is when you are backing out of a parking spot, into traffic, and there is a vehicle parked on your passenger side. One of the biggest problems with the Viper is the lack of visibility out of where the "C" pillar is/would be. With the backup camera, as you are pulling out of the parking space, you can see all the way down the street for oncoming traffic, rather than just pulling out until you can see past that car on your right, and hoping that the oncoming traffic stops for you. Essentially, there is no way to see the cars coming until you get past that car on the right and can see down the street out of the passenger window. I wouldn't like that at all. Backing into parking spaces is also made so much easier when lining up the directional indications in the camera. As I said before Enzo101, this is the kind of thing you really don't appreciate or expect until you actually drive the car. It sounds like the backup camera comes standard on '14 models and up......there's a reason for that.............

Exactly! I am finding that out first hand in the Ram, and I've been driving pickup trucks for 20 years (including a dually!). Those directional indications make life much easier! This is definitely on the "mod" list for the Viper. Will actually be the first mod, since my car is bone stock (except for the updated R29 of course).

[Enzo101]

It seems to me that resale value may not be much of a consideration given that it's a retirement car, and if I was your father, I'd likely be looking at putting the car in my will, rather than dealing with the hassle of selling it at some point.

As others have mentioned, it sounds like the GT and TA also have backup cameras. I'm not sure if this is standard equipment on those cars, or if it had to be added as an option. In any event, I would suggest that you factor in the inclusion of this feature as a priority if you get serious about the car. I agree that the Merc AMG GT S is probably a better way to go. But I would suggest that the Merc is going to set your father back in the neighbourhood of $40-50K above a Viper. It may be more, but I don't think it would be less. Is it worth that kind of cash? One thing I have heard a lot of people commenting about is the "daily driver" aspect of the Viper. I have to say, I use mine as a daily driver when winter has passed, and I don't have any problems. Actually, the Viper has a surprising amount of ground clearance in the front if the suspension and wheels are kept stock. It's quite livable.

Edit - Another thought: What are the maintenance costs on the Merc? You had indicated that the GTR has significant maintenance costs. I can't even imagine what the Mercedes shops are charging................

I called a few months ago on a Merc GT S and the maintenance costs are much more reasonable. I think the service A was between 200-300 and service B was 700ish, don't quote me on that. Do you feel as though you are making sacrifices when you drive? I went to go look at one about 2 hours ago and it had sold that weekend. Kinda sucks because I want to at least see how getting in and out is. Did look at a 2017 911.........quite good looking in white.

[lochnessmonster]

[Exactly! I am finding that out first hand in the Ram, and I've been driving pickup trucks for 20 years (including a dually!). Those directional indications make life much easier! This is definitely on the "mod" list for the Viper. Will actually be the first mod, since my car is bone stock (except for the updated R29 of course).]

Right on. It's so much more confidence inspiring pulling out and not cringing waiting for someone to either lay on their horn, slam on their brakes, or drive around you :) That is definitely a mod worth doing. Another mod worth doing, for me at least, was performed on the weekend with the lowering of the seat. I found Mark's post on how to remove the two silver hex posts located on the rear of the seat rails to give yourself about 1" further drop in the seat. It has really helped forward visibility in the car for me. I lowered the steering wheel a bit as well. That was a quick easy fix and it was free!!! Win Win. I'm not sure how tall your father is Enzo101, but I'm 5'11" and this really helped out, so it might be something to consider if he doesn't feel that he can see out of the windshield well enough.

[lochnessmonster]

I called a few months ago on a Merc GT S and the maintenance costs are much more reasonable. I think the service A was between 200-300 and service B was 700ish, don't quote me on that. Do you feel as though you are making sacrifices when you drive? I went to go look at one about 2 hours ago and it had sold that weekend. Kinda sucks because I want to at least see how getting in and out is. Did look at a 2017 911.........quite good looking in white.

I think the main thing about driving the Viper, in terms of "sacrifices" is that I have to be sooooooooooo much more careful about soooooooooooo many things when I drive it versus when I drive my S2000 or STi. They aren't necessarily "Viper" things, but "expensive/exotic car" things. I have to really watch speed bumps/driveway entrances, parking lot entrances, pot holes, road imperfections, parking lot exits, etc etc, because as I said, although the clearance on the Viper is terrific by "supercar" standards, it isn't terrific relative to "everyday car" standards. Also, I park the Viper way out in the parking lot not near anyone and walk the extra 100 feet or so to ensure my door doesn't get smacked by some careless kid, or because a gust of wind comes up and flings open the driver's door, etc The Viper also gets a heck of a lot of attention, so I think even more than a Porsche or a Merc you have to be ready for people to ask questions and give you props for driving the car almost every time you take it out. This might be a "sacrifice" for some, but I don't mind chatting about the car for a couple minutes. It's pretty cool to see the enthusiasm. My wife and I were down in the city this last weekend, and we were stopped at least 4 times by different guys asking about the car. No problemo. None of these things are really "Viper" specific. I guess your father has to be prepared for the fact that this is not your average car, and it requires an above average level of attention and consideration when you're out in it.

[Enzo101]

I think the main thing about driving the Viper, in terms of "sacrifices" is that I have to be sooooooooooo much more careful about soooooooooooo many things when I drive it versus when I drive my S2000 or STi. They aren't necessarily "Viper" things, but "expensive/exotic car" things. I have to really watch speed bumps/driveway entrances, parking lot entrances, pot holes, road imperfections, parking lot exits, etc etc, because as I said, although the clearance on the Viper is terrific by "supercar" standards, it isn't terrific relative to "everyday car" standards. Also, I park the Viper way out in the parking lot not near anyone and walk the extra 100 feet or so to ensure my door doesn't get smacked by some careless kid, or because a gust of wind comes up and flings open the driver's door, etc The Viper also gets a heck of a lot of attention, so I think even more than a Porsche or a Merc you have to be ready for people to ask questions and give you props for driving the car almost every time you take it out. This might be a "sacrifice" for some, but I don't mind chatting about the car for a couple minutes. It's pretty cool to see the enthusiasm. My wife and I were down in the city this last weekend, and we were stopped at least 4 times by different guys asking about the car. No problemo. None of these things are really "Viper" specific. I guess your father has to be prepared for the fact that this is not your average car, and it requires an above average level of attention and consideration when you're out in it.

Thank you man! This and your post above really helps. He is about 5 foot 10 but 65 and not as limber as once lol. As soon as I can find one near me he and I will go take a look at it. As of right now the closest is about 2 hours one way which isn't bad. There is a GT that is dark grey on tan and the pics look terrific for it. It's about 4 hours away. Hopefully when I get back I can talk with him and go from there. I think driving one will be the ultimate test for him.

[lochnessmonster]

Thank you man! This and your post above really helps. He is about 5 foot 10 but 65 and not as limber as once lol. As soon as I can find one near me he and I will go take a look at it. As of right now the closest is about 2 hours one way which isn't bad. There is a GT that is dark grey on tan and the pics look terrific for it. It's about 4 hours away. Hopefully when I get back I can talk with him and go from there. I think driving one will be the ultimate test for him.

Good to hear!! Also, be aware that there is a "technique" to getting in and out of the car gracefully that I think takes a little time to master. I'm able to get in and out without any of the "theatrics" I've seen by motor journalists like Jason Camissa (sp?) et. al. One thing I learned is that it is much easier to get out of the car if the door is fully opened. You'll find it requires a little "extra effort" to get it to go beyond what I would call "the first detent". But, it's well worth doing. Then it's just a matter of putting your left foot out of the car and hoping out all in one motion. When getting in, the key is to get your foot as far to the right as possible (I personally try to avoid touching the seat with my heel or the door sill as a "challenge") and then just getting down into the seat and swinging your left leg in. It takes a little practice, but once you've got it mastered, it isn't really that big a deal.

[Enzo101]

So here's a question, can a Viper be fitted with a trailer hitch? I'm thinking it would make a cool transporter for one of our race bikes.

[darbgnik]

You really dont get it drab, ALL 13,14,15...Viper resale will always be hurt from the multiple recalls on ALL Viper models because of POOR quality control on Dodges part! Iam asking full price plus clear-bra but why not? Find a 156.4K GTS with every option like my car. The fact that this Gen. has many issues, most minor and one major, one will make it impossible to get a fair resale unless sold to someone who does not do their homework..My car only calls for R29 but I have absolutely no faith in Dodge that my engine is "safe",lol..

Oh I do get it. I just don't care. This isn't my first Viper, so crappy resale value wasn't a surprise to me, and I bought it anyway. And if this was my first Viper, if I were even the least bit observant, I would notice resale values of the newer ones, and the discounts leftovers could be had for. I also think that your purchase was the smarter one overall compared to mine. Much more car for the money. And if you can sell it for what you've got into it, more power to you. But I'm also pretty sure that the loaded up cars depreciate more than the base cars as well, so even though you stole your car, sadly it will still depreciate as much as mine.........

[ViperSmith]

So here's a question, can a Viper be fitted with a trailer hitch? I'm thinking it would make a cool transporter for one of our race bikes.


http://i.imgur.com/2RB9kmr.gif

[ViperSmith]

Oh I do get it. I just don't care. This isn't my first Viper, so crappy resale value wasn't a surprise to me, and I bought it anyway. And if this was my first Viper, if I were even the least bit observant, I would notice resale values of the newer ones, and the discounts leftovers could be had for. I also think that your purchase was the smarter one overall compared to mine. Much more car for the money. And if you can sell it for what you've got into it, more power to you. But I'm also pretty sure that the loaded up cars depreciate more than the base cars as well, so even though you stole your car, sadly it will still depreciate as much as mine.........

You have to love after all the whining - he isn't even open on the engine recall.

lol

[Voice of Reason]

Very few 13s came without the backup camera and most of them were the 100 red Track Pack cars. Even then it's something that can be added relatively easily, I did it on my old 13. All 14+ have it.

[Enzo101]

http://i.imgur.com/2RB9kmr.gif

Hahaha it was worth a shot.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--F3oKkeud--/18na0xesdlukojpg.jpg

Like this.