VENOM V
10-25-2013, 01:49 PM
Okay all, at risk of plagiarising myself, I thought I would re-post my experience tracking my Gen V Viper against the Corvettes - all of them - C6s and the new C7 Z51. I originally posted this on another forum a couple of days ago and think it's worth sharing again on the new VOA forum. I wanted one of my first posts to be about something I am truely passionate about: The Gen V Viper is absolutely world class on the road course! And what a better way to find out than driving it against another car that Americans should be proud of - the Corvette. This is the golden age of the supercar, and the Americans are on top of the world.
As a birthday present, I treated myself to a fun-filled week at Ron Fellows Corvette School at Spring Mountain. I took the Level 2 Corvette School, and tacked on an extra day in a ZR1. When I had completed the Level 1 ZR1 course a while ago, they invited me back and said that they'd let me track my Viper after the school ended with a dash of professional instruction, I couldn't pass that up! And the chance to compare all of the Corvettes to my Viper on the track? Twist my arm.
On Wednesday, I tracked ZR1s all day. On Thursday and Friday, Z06s and Grand Sports. They also let us track the new C7. You learn so much about the nuances of tracking your car correctly- balance braking, throttle steer, the hows and whys of weight transfer, heel-toe shifting, driving the correct line, turn-in locations, apex, Etc. Etc. Then you get a chance to open track against your buddies in the class with transponders to see how well you were able to put it all together.
In between the Level 1 and 2 schools, I completed a number of track days in both my Camaro and Viper to put to practice what I learned. If you're thinking about taking a professional class, I highly recommend it. After taking the Level 1 class, I went to Thunderhill for my Viper's maiden voyage. The instruction really works. I was the fastest car that day, besting a number of exotics including a pair of Ferraris, a McClaren, a Saleen S7 and a spattering of ZR1s and Z06s. It's fair to say that I'm addicted to tracking now, what a blast! Okay, back to the school...
Comparing the cars:
C6 Corvettes:
The ZR1 and Z06 are damned fast on the track, very well balanced and easy to drive at the limits. Same with the Grand Sport, but it really feels like it runs out of steam in 4th and is clearly not in the same league as it's two faster siblings. Although a blast to throw around on the track, the C6s are not without some glaring annoyances. The seats are horrible in the Vettes unless they have the seats that have the inflatable bolsters. Those will keep you planted, otherwise you are squishing all over the place. And I burned my right hand a couple of times in different Vettes on the transmission tunnel. The carpet commonly pulls away from the center console, leaving hot exposed metal. I was fairly hard on the brakes, I'm trying to brake a little lighter and longer to remedy that. I boiled the brake fluid on three of my sessions in the Grand Sports, nearly losing all of my braking. But chalk that up to the school perhaps not flushing often enough. Not a problem with the ZR1 or Z06. Absolutely love the carbon ceramic brakes in the ZR1, no fade, consistent braking hot or cold, quiet, no pedal pulse, good on the street or track, and they last for about 6,000 track miles. Much longer than my Camaro brakes, which were totally worn down after two track weekends. This is the one thing that I would like to see on the Viper in the future, carbon ceramic brakes.
C7 Corvette:
Now on to the C7 with the Z51 package. Chevy was doing their C7 launch event on the other Spring Mountain track, so we got to turn a few hot laps in them. There were literally 100 C7s at the event! Funny story- the cars were built but you can't get replacement brake pads yet! So when the brakes wore out on the first group of C7s, they rotated in the second group simply because they had new pads. Sounds like SRT isn't the only one with a few early production issues and parts shortages. The interior is beautiful and high quality, a huge improvement over the C6. The seats are supportive enough, but not nearly as good as the Sabelts in my Viper. Chevy has a performance seat option that will be out soon that should give improved support. Power felt good, maybe a little torquier than the C6 Grand Sport but nothing like the Z06 or ZR1. As for the handling, I was expecting to be impressed based on what I had read. I was honestly underwhelmed. The big disappointment was the electronic differential. We were instructed to do all of our braking before the corner, then be completely off of the brake through the corner. If you brake at all during the corner, the diff locks and causes the understeer. This is opposite of any other car, where you would balance brake to transfer weight to the outside front corner, which improves turn-in. The electronic differential artificially induces oversteer to improve turn-in, but only works with your foot off of the brake! I can't drive like that. For the first time, I know what people mean by not wanting nannies to drive the car for you. One instructor ensured me that the one I drove was a production model and that behavior was here to stay, whereas another thought that it was a pre-production model, and the GM engineers would improve this on the production model. In any case, I would not buy a Corvette unless they fix this. Another nanny that I thought I would like but didn't is the rev matching. The learned skill of heel-toe shifting can really improve lap times when mastered. But the C7 does automatic rev-matching. Kinda cool in concept, but it takes the fun out of driving for me.
Gen V Viper:
At the end of the day, they let me take the Viper out on track! Acceleration is similar to the ZR1 but the power comes on smoother at the lower RPM in the Viper, it feels more controlled and smooth. The pedal placement is superior to my Camaro and better than the Vettes too. The aluminum flywheel allows you to effortlessly blip the RPM quickly for an easy execution of heel-toe shifts. The Viper is noticeably stiffer than the Vettes, it feels more connected to the road. The turn in on the Viper is absolutely razor sharp and precise, it goes exactly where you point it. It feels faster than the Corvettes, driving it is more engaging. And that noise- the exhaust sings on the track, sounds bad ass. The big difference between the Viper and the Vettes is how it behaves when pushed near it's limits. When the rear end steps out, it steps out more quickly and you need to be ready to feather the throttle. If you lift, you can get into a tank-slapping fishtail or worse can spin. With the Vettes, you can lift and typically the car is forgiving enough that you can slowly bring the car back to straight without drama. Interestingly, the C7 is more Viper-like in this respect, the ass-end will step out much easier than on the C6. But this is an advantage because these cars turn very well. You do have to know what you're doing when you drive them hard.
Lap Times:
We ran the newly opened 2.1-mile second track at Spring Mountain. My best time in the Grand Sport was a 1:38.0, and my friend turned the fastest lap of our group at 1:37.3. This is after tracking Corvettes a total of 6 days at Spring Mountain and knowing how to master the car. I didn't have transponders in the cars when I drove the Z06 or ZR1, but my friend's GoPro showed his best Z06 lap of 1:34.66. In my Viper, I was literally just warming up and getting a feel for it at the track. I ran five laps. My last lap was a 1:34.3. Given more time, I would have been able to shave a few seconds off of my lap, so I was pleased with this time! I had worn-out, chunked P Zero Corsas, whereas the Vettes were just running PS2s.
Conclusion:
So what was my take-away? That the Viper is the car for me. It feels so much faster than the Vettes, even though the ZR1 should be able to run fairly competitive times with equal tires. The Viper is raw, loud, explosively fast and precise. It is a race car that you can street. The Corvette is civilized, isolated, but also explosively fast. It is a street car that you can track. I'll take the race car!
As a birthday present, I treated myself to a fun-filled week at Ron Fellows Corvette School at Spring Mountain. I took the Level 2 Corvette School, and tacked on an extra day in a ZR1. When I had completed the Level 1 ZR1 course a while ago, they invited me back and said that they'd let me track my Viper after the school ended with a dash of professional instruction, I couldn't pass that up! And the chance to compare all of the Corvettes to my Viper on the track? Twist my arm.
On Wednesday, I tracked ZR1s all day. On Thursday and Friday, Z06s and Grand Sports. They also let us track the new C7. You learn so much about the nuances of tracking your car correctly- balance braking, throttle steer, the hows and whys of weight transfer, heel-toe shifting, driving the correct line, turn-in locations, apex, Etc. Etc. Then you get a chance to open track against your buddies in the class with transponders to see how well you were able to put it all together.
In between the Level 1 and 2 schools, I completed a number of track days in both my Camaro and Viper to put to practice what I learned. If you're thinking about taking a professional class, I highly recommend it. After taking the Level 1 class, I went to Thunderhill for my Viper's maiden voyage. The instruction really works. I was the fastest car that day, besting a number of exotics including a pair of Ferraris, a McClaren, a Saleen S7 and a spattering of ZR1s and Z06s. It's fair to say that I'm addicted to tracking now, what a blast! Okay, back to the school...
Comparing the cars:
C6 Corvettes:
The ZR1 and Z06 are damned fast on the track, very well balanced and easy to drive at the limits. Same with the Grand Sport, but it really feels like it runs out of steam in 4th and is clearly not in the same league as it's two faster siblings. Although a blast to throw around on the track, the C6s are not without some glaring annoyances. The seats are horrible in the Vettes unless they have the seats that have the inflatable bolsters. Those will keep you planted, otherwise you are squishing all over the place. And I burned my right hand a couple of times in different Vettes on the transmission tunnel. The carpet commonly pulls away from the center console, leaving hot exposed metal. I was fairly hard on the brakes, I'm trying to brake a little lighter and longer to remedy that. I boiled the brake fluid on three of my sessions in the Grand Sports, nearly losing all of my braking. But chalk that up to the school perhaps not flushing often enough. Not a problem with the ZR1 or Z06. Absolutely love the carbon ceramic brakes in the ZR1, no fade, consistent braking hot or cold, quiet, no pedal pulse, good on the street or track, and they last for about 6,000 track miles. Much longer than my Camaro brakes, which were totally worn down after two track weekends. This is the one thing that I would like to see on the Viper in the future, carbon ceramic brakes.
C7 Corvette:
Now on to the C7 with the Z51 package. Chevy was doing their C7 launch event on the other Spring Mountain track, so we got to turn a few hot laps in them. There were literally 100 C7s at the event! Funny story- the cars were built but you can't get replacement brake pads yet! So when the brakes wore out on the first group of C7s, they rotated in the second group simply because they had new pads. Sounds like SRT isn't the only one with a few early production issues and parts shortages. The interior is beautiful and high quality, a huge improvement over the C6. The seats are supportive enough, but not nearly as good as the Sabelts in my Viper. Chevy has a performance seat option that will be out soon that should give improved support. Power felt good, maybe a little torquier than the C6 Grand Sport but nothing like the Z06 or ZR1. As for the handling, I was expecting to be impressed based on what I had read. I was honestly underwhelmed. The big disappointment was the electronic differential. We were instructed to do all of our braking before the corner, then be completely off of the brake through the corner. If you brake at all during the corner, the diff locks and causes the understeer. This is opposite of any other car, where you would balance brake to transfer weight to the outside front corner, which improves turn-in. The electronic differential artificially induces oversteer to improve turn-in, but only works with your foot off of the brake! I can't drive like that. For the first time, I know what people mean by not wanting nannies to drive the car for you. One instructor ensured me that the one I drove was a production model and that behavior was here to stay, whereas another thought that it was a pre-production model, and the GM engineers would improve this on the production model. In any case, I would not buy a Corvette unless they fix this. Another nanny that I thought I would like but didn't is the rev matching. The learned skill of heel-toe shifting can really improve lap times when mastered. But the C7 does automatic rev-matching. Kinda cool in concept, but it takes the fun out of driving for me.
Gen V Viper:
At the end of the day, they let me take the Viper out on track! Acceleration is similar to the ZR1 but the power comes on smoother at the lower RPM in the Viper, it feels more controlled and smooth. The pedal placement is superior to my Camaro and better than the Vettes too. The aluminum flywheel allows you to effortlessly blip the RPM quickly for an easy execution of heel-toe shifts. The Viper is noticeably stiffer than the Vettes, it feels more connected to the road. The turn in on the Viper is absolutely razor sharp and precise, it goes exactly where you point it. It feels faster than the Corvettes, driving it is more engaging. And that noise- the exhaust sings on the track, sounds bad ass. The big difference between the Viper and the Vettes is how it behaves when pushed near it's limits. When the rear end steps out, it steps out more quickly and you need to be ready to feather the throttle. If you lift, you can get into a tank-slapping fishtail or worse can spin. With the Vettes, you can lift and typically the car is forgiving enough that you can slowly bring the car back to straight without drama. Interestingly, the C7 is more Viper-like in this respect, the ass-end will step out much easier than on the C6. But this is an advantage because these cars turn very well. You do have to know what you're doing when you drive them hard.
Lap Times:
We ran the newly opened 2.1-mile second track at Spring Mountain. My best time in the Grand Sport was a 1:38.0, and my friend turned the fastest lap of our group at 1:37.3. This is after tracking Corvettes a total of 6 days at Spring Mountain and knowing how to master the car. I didn't have transponders in the cars when I drove the Z06 or ZR1, but my friend's GoPro showed his best Z06 lap of 1:34.66. In my Viper, I was literally just warming up and getting a feel for it at the track. I ran five laps. My last lap was a 1:34.3. Given more time, I would have been able to shave a few seconds off of my lap, so I was pleased with this time! I had worn-out, chunked P Zero Corsas, whereas the Vettes were just running PS2s.
Conclusion:
So what was my take-away? That the Viper is the car for me. It feels so much faster than the Vettes, even though the ZR1 should be able to run fairly competitive times with equal tires. The Viper is raw, loud, explosively fast and precise. It is a race car that you can street. The Corvette is civilized, isolated, but also explosively fast. It is a street car that you can track. I'll take the race car!