HANS Pro Ultra Lite vs. NecksGen REV

[ek1]

After realizing that getting a halo seat into a GEN 5 ACR without cutting door panels and/or floor is most likely never going to happen (I still haven't fully given up on it, but its starting to look like Mission: Impossible), I researched head restraint devices. Seems like most people go with either HANS or Necksgen. I have spent a few hours researching each device and came down to this:

* HANS is less comfortable to wear, has no lateral and angled impact protection, but has excellent front impact protection.
* Necksgen is more comfortable to wear, _claims_ to have lateral neck support, but does not stabilize the head in a frontal impact as well as HANS device does.

Looking at the following video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlmJHP2o90 I see that with Necksgen in a frontal impact scenario the driver's head goes WAAAY more forward and down than I would feel comfortable with. I have a herniated disc in my cervical spine, so having my head reach my belly button during a frontal collision sounds like a trip straight to an operating table. Looks like the Necksgen device does not have those vertical "fins" that go down the front of the torso and this is what allows the driver's head to dangle way too far forward. The irony of the video is that it's advertising a "RESTRAINT" device, yet the voice says that "Drivers will have a feeling of total freedom." Seems like they cant even make up their mind :)

On the other hand, having a HANS device without a halo seat would mean absolutely zero lateral impact protection.

What do you guys think? Looks like a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" scenario to me.

There are a few other wrinkles. One is that I will have a Teamtech 6-point harness installed in the car, so I need to make sure that 3" belts will work with the device I buy. I know that there are some methods for folding 3" belts into 2" size, but not sure how comfortable this is going to be. The second wrinkle is that I will retain all the airbags, which will inevitably go off during a collision. I have no idea what is going to happen in that scenario.

EDIT: Almost forgot, I also found one video that shows that HANS device still has some degree of protection in a 90 degree impact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1gLMXmdjfg

[TA Two Oh]

I used a HANS Sport 3 for the first time this past weekend. (Chuckwalla Viper Tracks, which was fantastic!) I've never had a head and neck restraint before, and I was curious to find out how it would affect my driving. The answer turned out to be: not at all. It took me a bit longer to get in and out of the car, and to do up my belts, but otherwise there were no negative effects. The sliding tether allowed for a full range of side to side motion, and I was able to look everywhere that I needed to. The Sport 3 is light, and it was unobtrusive; I was never conscious of it while driving. I believe that it does offer protection in side impacts, although perhaps not to the level of the Necksgen.

Teamtech made my belts with the straps that narrow at the top, and they fit perfectly into the groves on the HANS. They'll do the same for you if you request that spec. With their "across the entire chest" padding, and horizontal strap that locks the right and left belts together, there's no danger of the belts sliding off the HANS, unlike with many other belts.

Bottom line is that I'm very happy with both the HANS and the Teamtech belts.

[XSnake]

I have one of the first gen Hans Carbons. Just make sure you get sliding tethers.

[Simms]

Great info. Thanks

[The Stig]

the important factor is what you are really looking for. your base of your skull separating from your spine.. will hurt a lot but only for about one second.. after that ..its pretty dark. stopping the forward head motion is the best thing and unfortunately the biggest killer over many years.... Irwin. Petty, Mcduffie Earnhardt plus many more

[TrackAire]

I've got the NecksGen and once I'm driving, I do not realize I'm wearing any sort of head and neck restraint. I would think that once you're driving, the traditional HAN's would be similar, you forget it is there. One of the things that I noticed when I first used the NecksGen was that it did limit your heads lateral movement (good thing in a side impact). Until I tried one on, I thought HAN's devices only stopped the extreme forward head movement.

There is so much that goes into the effectiveness of a HAN's device like seat design, belt design and fitment, etc that this creates many variables that really, never can all be tested or proven. I think the key point is this, if you are using a race harness, you must use some sort of HAN's device, period. Other things to incorporate is the lightest weight quality helmet you can afford and starting some sort of neck strengthening and conditioning exercise routine to build strong yet flexible neck muscles.

[Drlee50]

Why doesnt anyone use the Teamtech Tucker one?

http://www.minicupchampionship.com/tucker.html

no special seat needed
They any good?

[ek1]

the important factor is what you are really looking for. your base of your skull separating from your spine.. will hurt a lot but only for about one second.. after that ..its pretty dark. stopping the forward head motion is the best thing and unfortunately the biggest killer over many years.... Irwin. Petty, Mcduffie Earnhardt plus many more

Stig, thanks for that nice graphic description :). Came in "handy" right after me reading a 20+ page thread about last year's deadly crash at Buttonwillow.

On a serious note, I want to make it clear that I am NOT making a decision of "To use a Head & Neck Restraint device or not". That's a done deal. I am just trying to decide between HANS and Necksgen and beyond each vendor's marketing and people saying that a particular device is/is not comfortable, there is very little information as far as how effective a HANS device is in side impacts and how effective a Necksgen device is in a frontal impact. I am trying to get a maximum amount of protection, front and side, given that I cant get a halo seat that fits in an unmodied Gen 5 ACR. I agree that stopping forward head motion is great, but at the same time the fatality at Buttonwillow was due to a side impact, so although the occupants were not wearing ANY HNR devices, I dont know how much a HANS device would have helped.

[ek1]

Trackaire - so can you pls tell me what happens if you try to jerk your head forward when you are strapped in and wearing a NecksGen? Do you feel any resistance?

Also, what version of NecksGen do you have? I know that the earlier version was similar to the HANS device (it had frontal yokes), but the modern one (REV) is completely different. Also, what harness and what belt width do you use and how well do belts stay on the NecksGen?

[TrackAire]

Trackaire - so can you pls tell me what happens if you try to jerk your head forward when you are strapped in and wearing a NecksGen? Do you feel any resistance?

Also, what version of NecksGen do you have? I know that the earlier version was similar to the HANS device (it had frontal yokes), but the modern one (REV) is completely different. Also, what harness and what belt width do you use and how well do belts stay on the NecksGen?

Sorry for the late response...did not notice the reply til now.

I do have the latest version. Once strapped in, yes it does limit your head from going forward. How much compared to a HANS brand I don't know. I do feel that it does limit lateral head movement also....but like I said, once the car is on the track you really don't notice it at all.

Everybody is worried about a frontal impact with the key word impact and not impacts. The last couple of HPDE track incidents that happened at events I was attending were not just a single run straight into the wall head on. Example, car hit a barrier, flipped vertical and over again on its wheels in a violent fashion....very much like a snap roll. I don't know what type of HANS would be best in the real world in a street based track car...but at this point I would think some sort of HANS is better than nothing when using harnesses. Regarding how far your head/neck is going to go forward during the initial frontal impact, I would hope the air bag supplements the HANS in case you do come forward.

[ek1]

Just wanted to update everyone. I was at a race shop recently and tried on a few devices. All the "original" HANS devices I tried (different models, sizes, etc) bothered the crap out of me when I tried them in a racing seat. They did NOT have Necksgen. In the end, I went with a new Schroth SHR Flex. The "fins" on the front of the yoke have hinges and pivot a little, giving you an optimal fit. It also has rigid belt guides and is designed to work with both 3" and 2" belts. It weights more than the carbon fiber HANS device, but again, the HANS device was unbearable to wear.

The Schroth device comes with it's own helmet posts. I wore it during five 20-minute sessions yesterday and did not even feel it on. The only issue is it does not work with my foam neck collar, so now I will need to find a smaller collar.

[38D]

the HANS device was unbearable to wear.

I've worn my Hans for years and I don't even notice it's there. What exactly was causing you discomfort?

[ek1]

I've worn my Hans for years and I don't even notice it's there. What exactly was causing you discomfort?

It seemed to be the angle between the "fins" sitting on my chest and the rear portion of the device that sits behind the helmet. If the fins were flush against my chest, the rear portion would cut into the back of my neck. If I repositioned the device so that the neck was comfortable, the "fins" would stick out. I also tried several sizes with similar results. Most likely your body has a chest/neck angle that matches perfectly with the angle that HANS has and mine does not. I guess this is why HANS just released an "adjustable" version, which has pivoting "fins" (just like Schroth), but the shop did not have that one in stock.

[Apxnv]

Thanks to all posting their thoughts...very helpful as I'm going to buy one of them soon.

Let's hear from others too!

[steve911]

I have been using a Hans Device and Team Tech Harnesses configured for the Hans for about 3 years.

[Special Ed]

It seemed to be the angle between the "fins" sitting on my chest and the rear portion of the device that sits behind the helmet. If the fins were flush against my chest, the rear portion would cut into the back of my neck. If I repositioned the device so that the neck was comfortable, the "fins" would stick out. I also tried several sizes with similar results. Most likely your body has a chest/neck angle that matches perfectly with the angle that HANS has and mine does not. I guess this is why HANS just released an "adjustable" version, which has pivoting "fins" (just like Schroth), but the shop did not have that one in stock.

You do know that HANS is made with different angles for various applications. One for stock and sports cars, one for drag type cars and one for open wheel cars. It depends on the lay back or lay down of your seat. Sound like you were trying on for a drag or open wheel rather the one for stock or sport car application.

[ek1]

You do know that HANS is made with different angles for various applications. One for stock and sports cars, one for drag type cars and one for open wheel cars. It depends on the lay back or lay down of your seat. Sound like you were trying on for a drag or open wheel rather the one for stock or sport car application.

Yes, I know there are different angles. I was trying the correct one on. Anyway, the fact that they came out with the "adjustable" version later just proves my point that the angle of "fins" does not work for some people.

I've been very happy with my SHR Flex though. Super comfortable and I even forget that it's there.

[Renn23]

+1 on the Schroth SHR Flex. Wish is had some padding when you really crank down on the shoulder straps but it's a lot less intrusive than the HANS.

[nrs1]

I have previously used a HANS and believe if you get the right angle for you application it would be fine. I now have the Simpson Hybrid, that does have lateral protection, along with good forward restriction. It does seem a bit more comfortable than the HANS, and easier to get into.

[Never2]

Okay, here we go. This is a very important subject and there is a lot of misunderstanding and incomplete information on the topic. Frontal head restraints as these are generically known, are designed and certified to prevent the head from continuing to move forward as its momentum would dictate in a sudden stop. This does not mean your head motion and ability to lower your head to your chest are affected under normal conditions. This also means that no device is certified to prevent injury from lateral hits. All manufacturers will at best say that their hybrid devices "help somewhat" in lateral impacts. Further, airbags are actually designed to prevent your body, including your head, from hitting stuff in the car. They are not specifically designed to prevent the kind of injury that killed Dale Earnhardt, et al. That was a basal skull fracture as explained below.

In a sudden deceleration the head will move directly forward, not down, and these devices are meant to limit that directly forward, horizontal motion so that it is arrested before it is limited by being attached to your body. Without such limitation your head would continue forward until your neck tries to stop it at which point it then would whip downward causing what is known as a basal skull fracture, essentially breaking your head off the spine. This is almost always fatal. AND, it can occur in sudden stops at as little as 42 miles per hour. Below is a link to a sled test that illustrates how a HANS device does what I have explained. Watch as the body moves forward stretching the belts and they hold the device in place which then halts the head's forward progress before it can whip downward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFOprqPmgqQ

The good news on the hybrid front is that though none are certified for lateral impact protection, Simpson alone has developed a hybrid that IS certified to work with the standard three-point seatbelt found in all passenger cars as well as racing harnesses. It is their Simpson Hybrid S.

So why am I so into all of this? I started doing HPDE's shortly after acquiring my (first) Viper. (No one told me this would be a serial affliction.) As I progressed and found "All you need is a helmet" to be the fourth biggest lie, and installed six-point harnesses I couldn't help but be concerned and perplexed as I watched instructors belt themselves into my harness in the passenger seat without a HANS. It doesn't take a genius to see that strapping the body in tightly while leaving the head loose is not a good plan. That really bothered me. It also bothered me that I couldn't buy a helmet in the entire St. Louis area. A couple years ago I decided to address my helmet concern and opened a tiny operation within our building called St. Louis Race Gear stocking racing helmets, gloves, shoes, trackday shirts, etc. so local folks would have a source. Ultimately that lead to the opportunity to address my concerns about HANS devices. Upon doing some rather extensive research and becoming involved with the Motorsport Safety Foundation through that research we are now making the Simpson Hybrid S HANS devices, which cost $1,103.00 on line, available on a rental basis for the HPDE crowd that just do a few events a year and don't want to spend that much money. Obviously, this is more a safety crusade that a "get rich quick" scenario but, again, this is a very important topic and if we can help keep drivers from serious injury our mission will be fulfilled.

Sorry to be so wordy but this is a big and very important topic,

[Mad Max]

I saw a device at the PRI show that I really liked. You might want to check it out.

https://zamp-inc.myshopify.com/collections/z-tech-head-neck/products/z-tech-series-4a-sfi-38-1?variant=41636001164

[ek1]

I saw a device at the PRI show that I really liked. You might want to check it out.

https://zamp-inc.myshopify.com/collections/z-tech-head-neck/products/z-tech-series-4a-sfi-38-1?variant=41636001164

Oh wow....FINALLY someone woke up and added PADS to a HANS device! And it's adjustable! Very cool! I'll check it out as soon as one of my local shops has it.

[stradman]

Oh wow....FINALLY someone woke up and added PADS to a HANS device! And it's adjustable! Very cool! I'll check it out as soon as one of my local shops has it.

My Schroth Hans is padded....

[TooBlue]

After reading a lot of reviews and checking the research on forward and lateral movement,I went with the Simpson Hybrid S


Here is a review of the popular brands FWIW...

http://www.racedaysafety.com/whhenere.html

[Turla]

After reading a lot of reviews and checking the research on forward and lateral movement,I went with the Simpson Hybrid S


Here is a review of the popular brands FWIW...

http://www.racedaysafety.com/whhenere.html

Yea I’m bumping an old thread. How comfortable is the hybrid S in a stock viper? Looking at one for this season but unsure if the longer back will be uncomfortable