Gen 2 brakes 2001

[Josrocket]

I got SS lines, EBC yellow race pads, and fresh Motul 600 fluid and Im still having pad fade. For example at CMP I would hit 120mph+ 3 or 4 times in a lap and brake hard. I would hit 155mph in the straight at roebling and i would lose the brakes on turn 1. I think I may be out driving the stock brakes. Has anyone ever had this issue and what did you upgrade too? I need some advice because I feel unsafe for how I want to drive.

[99RT10]

Doesn't sound right, is the pedal pushing close to the floor? Is it POSSIBLE Your Master Cyl might be failing?

Edit: I have to defer to the guys that have ABS, but on my 99 and 97, drove them hard, only time I had an issue was when my pads got thin.

[thetalonguy]

Yep, brake fade seems to be a common issue on Gen 2 brakes . I'm in the same boat...upgraded pads, rotors, lines and fluid and have some issues when hard braking at 140+. I almost rear ended a Z06 last year who jammed on the brakes way too early on the straight away. That enticed me to upgrade.

I plan on upgrading my rotors / calipers/ pads before next race season. I also already purchased the new ACR Brake Cooling Ducts which fit our Gen.

There are actually a lot of Brake threads in the Gen 2 section regarding options. Take a look through some of the more recent threads. As this section can be somewhat quiet at times. I'm still exploring what I want to do myself.

Luckily, there are a lot of options such as the SRT upgrade, Brembo upgrade, StopTech upgrade, RacingBrake.com upgrade, etc. Then there's talk about brake bias; but be happy that you already have ABS.

[Josrocket]

Doesn't sound right, is the pedal pushing close to the floor? Is it POSSIBLE Your Master Cyl might be failing?

Edit: I have to defer to the guys that have ABS, but on my 99 and 97, drove them hard, only time I had an issue was when my pads got thin.

No, pedal stays firm just nothing happens. It happens at high speed braking. No matter how much I lay into them it just wont stop but it wont go to the floor either. It just tries.

[Josrocket]

Yep, brake fade seems to be a common issue on Gen 2 brakes . I'm in the same boat...upgraded pads, rotors, lines and fluid and have some issues when hard braking at 140+. I almost rear ended a Z06 last year who jammed on the brakes way too early on the straight away. That enticed me to upgrade.

I plan on upgrading my rotors / calipers/ pads before next race season. I also already purchased the new ACR Brake Cooling Ducts which fit our Gen.

There are actually a lot of Brake threads in the Gen 2 section regarding options. Take a look through some of the more recent threads. As this section can be somewhat quiet at times. I'm still exploring what I want to do myself.

Luckily, there are a lot of options such as the SRT upgrade, Brembo upgrade, StopTech upgrade, RacingBrake.com upgrade, etc. Then there's talk about brake bias; but be happy that you already have ABS.

So you havent figured out what to do yet either? Glad to know I wasnt the only one who has out driven the brakes.

[Timnineside]

How long have you been tracking? Have you ever rode with an instructor? You may be on the brakes too often. Although the Gen 2 doesn't have great brakes its something to think about. The Gen 3/4 brake upgrade is killer for your car and worth the investment. Old wise man once said "make it stop before you make it go".

[Fatboy 18]

You need cooling ducting :)

[ViperTony]

On my GenII stock brakes, rotors, cooling duct hoses, pads, ss lines and Motul 600 no fade issues, yet. But I am finding it harder to stop quicker with the horsepower upgrade. Will most likely do a BBK upgrade this spring.

[Fatboy 18]

When I track my 2000 GTS, when I start to brake I normally pump the brakes really hard when approaching the corners, what I'm trying to say is I dont just put my foot on the pedal and hold it there. I figure by pumping the brakes I'm simulating ABS.

Do you guys do this?

[The Stig]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/3663-Viper-Big-Brake-Upgrade-Gen-2-Viper

For your reading - Just note when you do the upgrade it uses 2 (two) sets of front rotors from 2003 and up. I did it this summer with stop tech single piece rotors(budget and yes they are heavier than the 2 pc) works great with Blue EBC pads

[speedtactics]

I had similar problems on my 2000 gts. I upgraded to the Stoptech BBK, never had an issue again. They are built correctly for the car. If you go with the Gen 3 brakes they work well but be sure you use a proportion valve or you will have big problems with rear lock up. There are threads on this subject.

[Josrocket]

I had similar problems on my 2000 gts. I upgraded to the Stoptech BBK, never had an issue again. They are built correctly for the car. If you go with the Gen 3 brakes they work well but be sure you use a proportion valve or you will have big problems with rear lock up. There are threads on this subject.

Did you do the complete 4 wheel upgrade. Which ones?

[Bill Pemberton]

Fatboy said it all. Frankly I would ditch the EBC pads also, but the trick with the Gen IIs was to do brake ducting . Bob Woodhouse designed a system, which Henry Cone then built kits of after asking Bob if he could build off his idea, and most of us racing Gen IIs stopped having brake issues. The laminar flow of air over a Gen II never really allowed much air to get to the rotors and the idea of doing it through the driving lights ( deleted on ACRs ) did nothing to improve as the air was not captured there. Jon B. bought some Henry Cone's kits years ago , but not sure if they are still being done. We did a bunch here , initially, since it was Bob's idea , and the success rate was fantastic ---- I went from using three sets of pads ( fronts ) at Mid Ohio in 2000, to never replacing them for 2.5 weekends once the ducts were installed.

[red heat]

I got SS lines, EBC yellow race pads, and fresh Motul 600 fluid and Im still having pad fade. For example at CMP I would hit 120mph+ 3 or 4 times in a lap and brake hard. I would hit 155mph in the straight at roebling and i would lose the brakes on turn 1. I think I may be out driving the stock brakes. Has anyone ever had this issue and what did you upgrade too? I need some advice because I feel unsafe for how I want to drive.

the gen 2 stock brakes are absolute junk (for purposes of road racing). there's no way anyone can track a gen 2 car consistently without doing a big brake upgrade. the brake systems for those cars are under-technologied.

I experienced this after my third track day in my 02 RT/10. once you do a big brake upgrade (i.e. 4 piston brembo calipers - gen 3 brake system) problem will be solved.

[Bill Pemberton]

Politely disagree with Red Heat , as one can always get different rotors and better pads , with the standard system , but if you don't do ducting you can still have issues if you are fast. Fatboy brought up the fix all of us figured out years ago with Gen IIs and sure a big brake kit will help , but it is not a cure all.

[XSnake]

You need ducting. Start with the Gen 5 ACR ducts. Cheap and easy.

[The Stig]

Careful XSnake.. I resemble that comment Cheap and easy .... I did the ACR ducts..let you know in the spring. But I have BBK 14 all around with EBC Blues

[Josrocket]

Fatboy said it all. Frankly I would ditch the EBC pads also, but the trick with the Gen IIs was to do brake ducting . Bob Woodhouse designed a system, which Henry Cone then built kits of after asking Bob if he could build off his idea, and most of us racing Gen IIs stopped having brake issues. The laminar flow of air over a Gen II never really allowed much air to get to the rotors and the idea of doing it through the driving lights ( deleted on ACRs ) did nothing to improve as the air was not captured there. Jon B. bought some Henry Cone's kits years ago , but not sure if they are still being done. We did a bunch here , initially, since it was Bob's idea , and the success rate was fantastic ---- I went from using three sets of pads ( fronts ) at Mid Ohio in 2000, to never replacing them for 2.5 weekends once the ducts were installed.

Im not really following what you are talking about brake ducts not going through the fog lights. Where else would you mount them? Could you show me what you are talking about. I would rather not do a brake upgrade if I dont have to. Its really expensive as Im sure you know. Should I call JonB?

[Josrocket]

You need ducting. Start with the Gen 5 ACR ducts. Cheap and easy.

Can I put these on my 2001?

[The Stig]

yes Josrocket I have them on mine the ACR ones

[AZTVR]

Im not really following what you are talking about brake ducts not going through the fog lights. Where else would you mount them? Could you show me what you are talking about. I would rather not do a brake upgrade if I dont have to. Its really expensive as Im sure you know. Should I call JonB?

I did the brake duct upgrade that Bill is talking about; however, it was at a time when JonB did not have access to parts, so, I got my hands on a copy of the "Cone duct" instructions, and some other DIY posts from the other club's archives and put a setup together.

The Cone Cooling kit is still on JonB's website, so, he may have it again, or just never took down the page: http://www.viperpartsrack.com/cone-brake-cooling-kit

PM sent

[Bill Pemberton]

Sorry, many folks thought doing brake ducting hoses through the area where the driving lights were would work , but it was discovered quite early that the air did not direct itself there due to the shape of the front fascia ,etc. The ducting that everyone found to work involved cutting a hole in the radiator support in the grill area and directing a hose back that direction. A lot of wasted money went into trying to make the driving light area function for ducts and the only one semi successful was the legendary Paul Mumford , who built what looked like giant airhorns coming out of each area to capture air. At the present time the new thing to try would be the ACR duct extention pieces , which could work similar to the old Porsche deflectors that many tried for awhile and then abandoned as they became useless as one became faster. The new ACR parts are much larger and may be a much less costly way to alleviate the problem , but Gen IIs frankly need ducting more than anything else imho.

[Fatboy 18]

Im not really following what you are talking about brake ducts not going through the fog lights. Where else would you mount them? Could you show me what you are talking about. I would rather not do a brake upgrade if I dont have to. Its really expensive as Im sure you know. Should I call JonB?

Brake ducting starts off by fitting rectangular air ducts to the inside of the lower front fascia
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5781/23161677076_a1821bffb9_c.jpg


You then cut a hole for the ducting through the fibreglass radiator shroud
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/712/21023563431_fd3d790e57_c.jpg

Then you can use cable ties to angle the ducting towards the caliper
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7616/16655327837_1065438415_c.jpg

[red heat]

There seems to be a huge emphasis on brake ducting here. The stock braking system on gen 2 vipers unfortunately is a 2 piston caliper on the front brakes and a large one piston caliper on the back. Brake cooling is very important. However, There is no way you a gonna participate in a real track day event without a 4 piston caliper system.

[Redsled]

The stock braking system on gen 2 vipers unfortunately is a 2 piston caliper on the front brakes and a large one piston caliper on the back.

Wrong. Stock Gen 2 calipers are 4 piston Brembo.

[Josrocket]

http://www.manciniracing.com/vifrbrcopa.html

Anyone use this kit? This looks nice

[Fatboy 18]

I have never seen that, I have no idea how that would fit into the car or how those carbon parts would fit?

Looks a bit Sledgehammer to crack a nut!

[Josrocket]

A friend on FB showed me how it hooks to the caliper. It seems very classy but he has never had it on the track and with stock brakes. I call the manufacture and he didnt know much about it as the kit has been in their warehouse since 2001.

[Longdaddy]

Before you invest into upgrades, it will help if you get a baseline - get yourself a bottle of brake temperature paint (many racing supplies retailers carry it), and put it on your rotors (areas not swept by pads, obviously). Apologies if this was already mentioned.

After a track session, you will be able to tell max. temperatures of those areas by the paint color. From then on, you will be able to both make a plan on how to address the issue (ducting, different pad compound, etc) and to gauge your progress (by reapplying the paint after making changes, and re-assessing the temperatures).