Fast shifting!

[ViperPete]

Many thanks to NinjaKris for telling me how to shift like this.

Makes me giddy every time I run through the gears at WOT now.

I took this vid yesterday of me shifting the Viper to about 165 mph.

I am so happy that I finally learned how to shift this car. Gas flat on the floor and tapping the clutch. Runs like a champ. I love this car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wJlG-qIQ88&feature=youtu.be

(can a mod or admin, convert the youtube link into an actual movie right in my post please?)

[7TH_SIGN]

Well done!

[Junkie]

Exactly how they are meant to be driven! Good job

[TA Two Oh]

Wow; you were flying!!! Nothing but clouds out the windshield! But seriously... that looked really smooth and fast. Nice work, Pete!

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Sweet shifting! Can you explain what you mean by tapping the clutch?

[ViperPete]

Sweet shifting! Can you explain what you mean by tapping the clutch?

That's just it. Tapping the clutch, in and out instantly. I need to take a vid with a camera by the pedals.

[venum4u]

Are you letting up on gas pedal when shifting, or are you power shifting by keeping gas pedal down while shifting ?

[harley56]

Looks like he is speed shifting, but interested to know as well.

[ViperPete]

Gas pedal is flat the entire time.

[Nine Ball]

Very nice job. Glad to see your hand positions changed for each shift, that is critical.

[ViperJon]

Great job. I always rotate my hand a little more counter clockwise on the 3rd to 4th shift....that money shift mistake scares me..:drive:

[bogdan]

Great shifting! It's amazing how different the Viper is when it's no-lift-shifted.


Great job. I always rotate my hand a little more counter clockwise on the 3rd to 4th shift....that money shift mistake scares me..:drive:

I agree. Try to rotate your palm towards 10 o'clock on the sift knob with your thumb pointing towards the shift boot. That way, if you miss a gear, you''' shift into 6th and not second. :)

[ViperPete]

Great job. I always rotate my hand a little more counter clockwise on the 3rd to 4th shift....that money shift mistake scares me..:drive:

The shift that frustrates me most is 4th to 5th. At the WannaGoFast even I ruined 3 of my runs because I kept missing 5th gear and seeing the damn backup camera come on. After that I just sat in the starting line and practiced, 4th-5th, 4th-5th, 4th-5th, 4th-5th like to train my arm or whatever. After I did that a few times I didn't miss 5th anymore but its so far over to the right. Way different than my SRT10 shifter.

I appreciate the compliments guys, I absolutely LOVE being able to drive the car this way now.

[pdv25]

Nicely done!!

[ViperPete]

Nicely done!!
You're driving was my inspiration!

[pdv25]

You're driving was my inspiration!

HAHA, That's cool brother.

[Leslie]

Very nice!
Shifting was good too:)

[Leslie]

Gas pedal is flat the entire time.

Power shifting

[ViperPete]

Power shifting

It doesn't feel natural that's for sure. But it sure is fun at WOT.

[donk_316]

Nine ball has a really good post about this sort of thing on his blog.

[Sticky]

Nine ball has a really good post about this sort of thing on his blog.

Link please?

[Leslie]

It doesn't feel natural that's for sure. But it sure is fun at WOT.

And you are full throttle shifting at the optimal point for each gear-in the power band, which isn't necessarily redline!

I do more speed shifting, where I quickly lift the throttle, definitely more on the roadcourse. Granny shifting pretty much on the street, haha.

Nice job!!!

[venum4u]

And you are full throttle shifting at the optimal point for each gear-in the power band, which isn't necessarily redline!

I do more speed shifting, where I quickly lift the throttle, definitely more on the roadcourse. Granny shifting pretty much on the street, haha.

Nice job!!!

This is my style also, really would hate to experience the dreaded missed shift while attempting power shifting

[ViperPete]

This is my style also, really would hate to experience the dreaded missed shift while attempting power shifting

Been there... lol... Just bounces on the rev-limiter.

Practice, practice, practice.

[Nine Ball]

Link please?

I'm happy to help my fellow Viper owners win more races :)

http://nineballgarage.com/2015/05/precision-shifting-a-manual/

Tony

[jtc]

Nice write up Tony

[ViperPete]

I'm happy to help my fellow Viper owners win more races :)

http://nineballgarage.com/2015/05/precision-shifting-a-manual/

Tony

Man that's a great writeup! I wish I read that before I started powershifting but I tell you what, I knew exactly where to put my hand on the shifter without reading about it. Just made sense you know?

[Nine Ball]

Man that's a great writeup! I wish I read that before I started powershifting but I tell you what, I knew exactly where to put my hand on the shifter without reading about it. Just made sense you know?

Sure, it is logical. But, those "money shifts" typically happen because of wrong hand or elbow positioning. Some people just hold the shifter the exact same (pistol grip) on every gear change, which is an awful habit.

Pistol grip during a 2-3 shift, can sometimes result in a 2-1 shift. Kaboom!

Pistol grip with elbow in, during a 3-4 shift, can sometimes cause a 3-2 shift. Kaboom!

We've all seen it happen ;)

[venum4u]

Been there... lol... Just bounces on the rev-limiter.

Practice, practice, practice.

Yes, good to know. Seems like practice time. Thanks for the info.

[Boba Fett]

nice shifting Pete!!

[Jdmuscle]

Awesome shifting!!

[Dave292]

Back in my drag racing days we called it speed shifting. Nicely done.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

I want to thank the OP and Tony for sharing this info again.
I practiced this technique yesterday and I must say it rocks!! The Viper loves it! You get a nice chirp from the tires in between shifts and the power is explosive! I need to rematch my friend's GTR now haha

[early13viper]

Very nice job. Glad to see your hand positions changed for each shift, that is critical.

I was always told not to change your hand positions. When I use to instruct at HPT Roadcourse this was the first thing I use to tell my students. The reason being was it was harder to miss a gear if you shifted the same way every time. That's how I always learned it. Not saying your wrong just trying to understand your different technique. :)

[Dan Cragin]

Speed shifting works great when you got it down, but when you make a mistake its hell on the syncro's. Dont ask me how I know this.

[Leslie]

I instruct my students to use a different hand position, same as Nineball.
I 'palm' for 3rd and 5th, rotate wrist inward towards my feet using 4 fingers for 4th.

[Nine Ball]

I was always told not to change your hand positions. When I use to instruct at HPT Roadcourse this was the first thing I use to tell my students. The reason being was it was harder to miss a gear if you shifted the same way every time. That's how I always learned it. Not saying your wrong just trying to understand your different technique. :)

This makes no sense, sorry. Every single gear change is a different motion, and a different hand position makes it more efficient and accurate. On the road course it is not as critical as drag racing, since we tend to just use gears 3 and 4 on the road course. Very few tracks use 2nd, none use 1st, and rarely we use 5th. So, just going 3-4-3-4-3-4 is pretty easy.

[Jack B]

In addition, very seldom (road course) are you aggressively banging the gears at peak rpm with the foot to the floor. If you grip the shifter tightly, you will miss a fair share of the 2-3 shifts, that gate is too narrow, you have to let the shifter guide itself.


This makes no sense, sorry. Every single gear change is a different motion, and a different hand position makes it more efficient and accurate. On the road course it is not as critical as drag racing, since we tend to just use gears 3 and 4 on the road course. Very few tracks use 2nd, none use 1st, and rarely we use 5th. So, just going 3-4-3-4-3-4 is pretty easy.

[Jack B]

What is interesting, that is exactly how i shift and I had not read Nineball's post till tonight.


I instruct my students to use a different hand position, same as Nineball.
I 'palm' for 3rd and 5th, rotate wrist inward towards my feet using 4 fingers for 4th.

[victoryman100]

I'm happy to help my fellow Viper owners win more races :)

http://nineballgarage.com/2015/05/precision-shifting-a-manual/

Tony
Thanks Tony ! Great write up and video! Gives me something to practice here in the garage while the snow is flying outside! Look out spring! :car-smiley-003:

[ViperPete]

The only reason to power shift is drag racing IMO

Or you want to show off to a passenger.

[sadil]

So....first money shift happened yesterday. Scary as hell. Anything I can check to see if all is well with the motor? Did the 3-2 while trying to get into 4th at 6k rpm on the front stretch and it scared the life out of me. Car was not happy for those 0.5 seconds....I continued to run the session, ran another and then drove 2 hours home. I have not heard any odd sounds or anything. Just really pissed that I lost that concentration for one moment and was so close to kaboom.

[Anton28]

I'm happy to help my fellow Viper owners win more races :)

http://nineballgarage.com/2015/05/precision-shifting-a-manual/

Tony

Anyway to get this link to work again?

[cubeman]

Anyway to get this link to work again?

If I'm correct the page basically said to just change your hand to the opposite side that you are moving it. For 1-2 your hand should be on the side of the radio/hvac controls. For 2-3 your hand should be on the side of the back of the car. 3-4 once again radio side. This method eliminated any chance of questionable gear changes for me.

[sharmut]

Can't recall who in this forum suggested it. When I want to shift from 3rd to 4th, I move my right elbow up and out to the right. It rotates my hand on the left side of the knob.

[cubeman]

Can't recall who in this forum suggested it. When I want to shift from 3rd to 4th, I move my right elbow up and out to the right. It rotates my hand on the left side of the knob.

Yeah I think this is how mine is also on the 3 to 4, it looks awkward but it works.

[Steve M]

Yeah I think this is how mine is also on the 3 to 4, it looks awkward but it works.

You can also do the ol' "thumbs down" method...that motion with your hand naturally moves your elbow out for the 3-4 shift.

[texasram]

So....first money shift happened yesterday. Scary as hell. Anything I can check to see if all is well with the motor? Did the 3-2 while trying to get into 4th at 6k rpm on the front stretch and it scared the life out of me. Car was not happy for those 0.5 seconds....I continued to run the session, ran another and then drove 2 hours home. I have not heard any odd sounds or anything. Just really pissed that I lost that concentration for one moment and was so close to kaboom.

You would notice significant valvetrain racket and or a knock under throttle if you did any real damage. As many 5's that have reported a money shift on this forum and have had no ill effects means it has to come down to the forged rotating assembly that keep mainly the connecting rod bolts from stretching? also i think a fully stock car has a little room for a mechanical over rev considering the arrow controller raises the limiter some?

[Arizona Vipers]

So....first money shift happened yesterday. Scary as hell. Anything I can check to see if all is well with the motor? Did the 3-2 while trying to get into 4th at 6k rpm on the front stretch and it scared the life out of me. Car was not happy for those 0.5 seconds....I continued to run the session, ran another and then drove 2 hours home. I have not heard any odd sounds or anything. Just really pissed that I lost that concentration for one moment and was so close to kaboom.

You should be ok. Just think how many missed shifts the Bondurant Viper's had from the thousands of newbs that drove them? I think there were only 1 or 2 engine failures from all the time those cars were out there getting abused.

[serpent]

I upgraded to the short throw barrel shifter and its amazing.

My only gripe is that it is so short I have smashed my pinky finger between the barrel and the shifter bezel. I wish they made a taller barrel shifter, maybe just another inch so I dont smash when im going WOT and shift fast.

[13COBRA]

I upgraded to the short throw barrel shifter and its amazing.

My only gripe is that it is so short I have smashed my pinky finger between the barrel and the shifter bezel. I wish they made a taller barrel shifter, maybe just another inch so I dont smash when im going WOT and shift fast.

I have the cure for you.

I installed the MGW short throw, plus the barrel shifter, loved them, but hated how physically short it was.

I ordered IPSCO 2" shifter knob adapter, BINGO! Works perfect, great height and feels firm. I couldn't be happier.

[serpent]

I have the cure for you.

I installed the MGW short throw, plus the barrel shifter, loved them, but hated how physically short it was.

I ordered IPSCO 2" shifter knob adapter, BINGO! Works perfect, great height and feels firm. I couldn't be happier.
+1

Gonna have to sit in the car and decide between 1 1/4" or 2".

[13COBRA]

+1

Gonna have to sit in the car and decide between 1 1/4" or 2".

I have big hands, and decided I'd rather it be a little tall, than a little short.

It worked out great. I'll go snap a picture in a few for you.


EDIT:

32791

[texasram]

I have big hands, and decided I'd rather it be a little tall, than a little short.

It worked out great. I'll go snap a picture in a few for you.


EDIT:

32791
Nice steering wheel

[MellowYellow_GTS]

Wait so you can no lift shift these cars just by tapping the clutch?
Is this a factory feature like they have on some GM cars?

[Viper.954]

I can see this is a old thread that has been revived. My nemesis has always been 3rd gear in the Viper. It's 50/50. It's terrifying when I hit the gate instead of 3rd gear. I had the same issue in my Gen 2 and an 03 Terminator with the same transmission. I ever missed with a small block and a T5 or a Top Loader.

[13COBRA]

Nice steering wheel

Thanks! DCT Motorsports made it for me. You can see more of it in the video below.


I can see this is a old thread that has been revived. My nemesis has always been 3rd gear in the Viper. It's 50/50. It's terrifying when I hit the gate instead of 3rd gear. I had the same issue in my Gen 2 and an 03 Terminator with the same transmission. I ever missed with a small block and a T5 or a Top Loader.

Best thing I can say is to shift like this. Go forward to 3:55 (but disregard anything after the 9:00 mark haha)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrWqutY9NDI

[pdv25]

My no lift shifts. Just takes some practice.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ui43i6H09Q

[MellowYellow_GTS]

But you guys are literally keeping the throttle pinned the whole time?

[SRT_BluByU]

Pete - How have your transmission and differential held up?

[Anton28]

I just tried this no lift shit and almost killed myself lol car kicked out so hard 1st to 2nd with full traction on. Then after finding my balls i tried 2nd to 3rd and that wasn’t very “safe” feeling either. Maybe it’s my tires? I’m running a 21” with a 355.

[Steve M]

I just tried this no lift shit and almost killed myself lol car kicked out so hard 1st to 2nd with full traction on. Then after finding my balls i tried 2nd to 3rd and that wasn’t very “safe” feeling either. Maybe it’s my tires? I’m running a 21” with a 355.

I'll never attempt a hard 1-2 shift on the street on anything less than a drag radial, and even then it's questionable.

[MellowYellow_GTS]

I just tried this no lift shit and almost killed myself lol car kicked out so hard 1st to 2nd with full traction on. Then after finding my balls i tried 2nd to 3rd and that wasn’t very “safe” feeling either. Maybe it’s my tires? I’m running a 21” with a 355.

Haha!! Other than the tire blow out, did the car seem to be okay with it? I'm not trying to blow out my clutch or something.

Btw I think you recently liked a picture of mine on Instagram haha, it's OFF2theGYM

[Steve M]

Haha!! Other than the tire blow out, did the car seem to be okay with it? I'm not trying to blow out my clutch or something.

Btw I think you recently liked a picture of mine on Instagram haha, it's OFF2theGYM

You won't blow your clutch unless you try launching hard at the drag strip, kinda like this:


https://youtu.be/oR7G2MTyDH8

The RPM hang off the line was not tire spin, it was the clutch slipping. That was my 4th pass on drag radials, and the clutch was toast.

As long as you aren't doing that, you'll be fine.

[MellowYellow_GTS]

You won't blow your clutch unless you try launching hard at the drag strip, kinda like this:


https://youtu.be/oR7G2MTyDH8

The RPM hang off the line was not tire spin, it was the clutch slipping. That was my 4th pass on drag radials, and the clutch was toast.

As long as you aren't doing that, you'll be fine.

Dang! Thanks for sharing lol

[nwa_viper]

Dang! Thanks for sharing lol

Darin, get out there and bang some gears!

[sadil]

I just tried this no lift shit and almost killed myself lol car kicked out so hard 1st to 2nd with full traction on. Then after finding my balls i tried 2nd to 3rd and that wasn’t very “safe” feeling either. Maybe it’s my tires? I’m running a 21” with a 355.

I haven’t tried the no lift shift from 1-2 or 2-3, I was doing 3-4 on the main straight away during a track day and it worked like a charm. I have no doubts that it would work for other gears but you have to be full throttle commited. Not really something you should be trying on the street unless it’s totally empty. Were you full pedal down commited? How did you clutch? Anything short of a lightning fast tap’n’go is too slow. Try 2-3 before you try 1-2.

[MellowYellow_GTS]

Darin, get out there and bang some gears!

Hahaha have you tried the no lift yet Richard?!

[nwa_viper]

Hahaha have you tried the no lift yet Richard?!

I’ve thought about it several times but never done it. I’ll have to do it now that it sounds like the cars like it so much.

[Steve M]

I’ve thought about it several times but never done it. I’ll have to do it now that it sounds like the cars like it so much.

I wouldn't say "like it"...they tolerate it, but don't kid yourself into thinking it doesn't wear parts out faster.

[Anton28]

Haha!! Other than the tire blow out, did the car seem to be okay with it? I'm not trying to blow out my clutch or something.

Btw I think you recently liked a picture of mine on Instagram haha, it's OFF2theGYM



Everything else seemed fine. It shifted smooth and proper. Cool!

[Anton28]

I haven’t tried the no lift shift from 1-2 or 2-3, I was doing 3-4 on the main straight away during a track day and it worked like a charm. I have no doubts that it would work for other gears but you have to be full throttle commited. Not really something you should be trying on the street unless it’s totally empty. Were you full pedal down commited? How did you clutch? Anything short of a lightning fast tap’n’go is too slow. Try 2-3 before you try 1-2.

I was definitely full pedal down lol Im going to keep playing around with it. I can see how 3-4 and 4-5 shifts would be safer and better utilize this strategy.

[kriskyk]

No lift shifting doesn't necessarily mean having the pedal pinned to the floor, just means you not backing off it...

[John Baird]

Great way to shorten the life of your clutch and transmission.

[ViperPete]

Pete - How have your transmission and differential held up?

Tranny is perfect. Diff developed a slight whine before I ever learned how to shift like this. Diff replaced under warranty. I doubt that the diff whine was related to the shifting Speed shifting like this is completely smooth and there is zero jarring feeling. The drive train is under almost constant load.

Gas pedal is flat to the floor. I am basically "tapping" the clutch pedal between shifts for a slight moment. It's hard to describe - but the sound and the acceleration is incredible.

The drivetrain being under almost constant load is what makes it feel more stable honestly. No head bopping off the headrest between shifts. I can't imagine how shifting like this damages anything or adds increased wear.
You can hear in my video that the RPM's are fairly constant so the clutch isn't slipping anyway.

My Viper has 17,000 miles on it now by the way. Clutch engagement is perfect. Car drives perfect. Been to three 1/2 mile events and easily 40 runs down the track.

[SRT_BluByU]

very cool! missed ya at the amelia island airfield this year.. :)

[ViperPete]

very cool! missed ya at the amelia island airfield this year.. :)

Would have been there if I knew about it!

[SRT_BluByU]

evey year on the saturday of amelia island concour! ill shoot ya a text next year.. :)

[ViperPete]

evey year on the saturday of amelia island concour! ill shoot ya a text next year.. :)
cool! thanks!

[Stealth78]

Tranny is perfect. Diff developed a slight whine before I ever learned how to shift like this. Diff replaced under warranty. I doubt that the diff whine was related to the shifting Speed shifting like this is completely smooth and there is zero jarring feeling. The drive train is under almost constant load.

Gas pedal is flat to the floor. I am basically "tapping" the clutch pedal between shifts for a slight moment. It's hard to describe - but the sound and the acceleration is incredible.

The drivetrain being under almost constant load is what makes it feel more stable honestly. No head bopping off the headrest between shifts. I can't imagine how shifting like this damages anything or adds increased wear.
You can hear in my video that the RPM's are fairly constant so the clutch isn't slipping anyway.

My Viper has 17,000 miles on it now by the way. Clutch engagement is perfect. Car drives perfect. Been to three 1/2 mile events and easily 40 runs down the track.

What's your best 1/4 mile time and trap speed?

[ViperPete]

What's your best 1/4 mile time and trap speed?

I took the car to the 1/4 mile track when I first got it (1/2 mile racing wasn't a "thing" yet). Had no idea how to slip the clutch to launch it. I honestly can't remember. I'm pretty sure I broke into the 11's but I don't remember the trap speed. It was 95+ degrees that night and insanely humid.
One of these days i'll make it up to Gainesville and see what the car can do with better tires and a more experienced driver ;)