Tracking with Six Vipers at Buttonwillow Raceway

[VENOM V]

Ok, this was cool. Jonathan "RedSled" and I met up at Buttonwillow Raceway last weekend to track along with my friend Mike in his Ferrari 458 and Kirk in his Camaro 1LE. RedSled has a bad ass 2002 GTS-R, and happens to be the Viper featured on Buttonwillow's T-shirt. Needless to say, he's one of the top hot shoes at Buttonwillow, and was a wealth of knowledge and help to me. A pleasant surprise was to find four other Vipers tracking with us that weekend, including 3 Comp Coupes!!! Not only was this the first time that I tracked with another Viper, but 4 of them were race cars. Lee Walters had his black Gen 3 out there. Lots of knowledge there too, Dan Cragin of Specialty Performance and Ross Murray of Exoticraft were there supporting the race cars.

However, this was a particularly challenging track weekend for me. I struggled to figure out the best way to drive Buttonwillow. You need to drive it differently in a Viper than I did in my Camaro. The track is very flat, almost no banking anywhere, and plenty of bumps and tight corners. The Viper has so much more torque to weight as compared to my Camaro, which is no slouch at 560 HP at the flywheel. But the Viper's 600 Ft-Lbs and 3300 pound weight makes it a handful in 2nd gear. I now track the car in Track Mode, which leaves stability control at a reduced level but turns traction control completely off. This is good and bad. The good: You can use throttle to get yourself out of trouble when the car gets loose. The bad: 600 Ft-Lbs means you are constantly trying to find the optimum throttle when in a low gear.

Freezing Temperatures
The temperature was 32 degrees in our first session. It was so cold that my friend spun his new Ferrari getting on the freeway onramp, on the way to the track! And Mike is one of the most talented drivers I know, so it was SLICK. Luckily no damage.

Hitting the Track
I absolutely could not get any traction on my new Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in the cold morning sessions. I spun it the second session after fighting it for a while. Luckily I stayed on track so no harm done. But I won't sugar coat it, I struggled much of the weekend. Either I was over driving it and going off track or under driving it and turning slow times. My friend Mike had no such challenges. He was turning consistent 2:00s and 2:01s all day in his 100% stock Ferrari on street tires. I could not believe that he turned a couple of 1:59s. I was also happy to see first-timer Kirk in his Camaro start out running 2:29s and end the weekend clicking off a 2:06! Amazing for a 100% stock Camaro SS 1LE on his first time tracking!

However, I continued to struggle. My best time on the first day was a 2:02.02, not much better than the 2:02.9 that I turned in my modded Camaro. The car was capable of more, I was not tapping it as well as I had at Laguna Seca and Thunderhill.

Getting Sideways
The next day after struggling, I finally was humbled enough to take Jonathan up on his offer for him to ride with me. Man, that guy knows his stuff. But his ride with me was not without drama. I had been taking this sweeping corner called Riverside in the mid to high 90s, and tried to go a little faster with Jonathan because I thought the Viper would hold. We got loose at over 100mph and slid off into the dirt. I was able to gather it up without incident, but I had gone off in an area of the track that is known for high speed rollovers. Whew.

Learning
Jonathan gave me a number of tips about which curbing, rumble strips and bumps to avoid, and how I was losing gobs of time on turn 1. Another tip that really helped me- I was downshifting into 2nd on many corners. Jonathan suggested leaving it in 3rd for all corners but turn 2. This paid huge dividends. Now I was smoother, and the back end was more planted because I wasn't upsetting the car due to engine braking or wheel spin.

UPDATE: I wanted to add a word about Ross wheeling the white Comp Coupe. There was a white BRZ that I had just passed, so when I saw white in my peripheral vision I didn't realize it wasn't the BRZ coming back but Ross flying up to me like a bat out of hell. A Comp Coupe in the hands of the right driver is wicked fast, it was impressive to watch. Even with the 20% world challenge legal restrictor still installed, he pulled off a 1.46.5 lap. That is the fastest lap I have personally witnessed at Buttonwillow. Ross also drove a 100% stock Gen IV ACR Hardcore to a 1:54.5 lap, which beats the production car record shown on fastestlaps.com.

My next session, I demoted myself from the Red Group to the Green Group, which is the slower of the two advanced groups with open passing. The Red Group was particularly fast this event and was dominated by race cars that came in on trailers. In Green Group, I went out with the gorgeous SSG Comp Coupe and Lee's black Gen 3 Viper. Man, Jonathan's lessons paid off. I was able to catch both of the other Vipers, and turned the fastest time of the group and my personal best of 2:01.06.

Lap Time Summary

1:46.50 Ross in the white Comp Coupe
1:54.50 Ross in the Gen IV ACR Hardcore, 100% stock
1:55.70 Production Car Record, Gen IV ACR
1:59.48 Mike's Ferrari 458 100% stock on street tires
2:01.06 My Gen V Viper GTS, 100% stock on MPSCs
2:01.90 SSG Compe Coupe on Hoosier R6s
2:02 Lee's Gen III on Hoosier R6s
2:02.9 My Camaro 1LE with coilovers, 560HP, Nitto NT-01s
2:06 Kirk's Camaro SS 1LE, 100% stock on street tires

Final Thoughts
Buttonwillow is a challenging track for me in the Viper. It was a humbling experience. I took lots of notes on what I learned and can't wait to return. I didn't hit my personal goal of a sub-2:00 lap, but think I now know how to get there. The Viper rewards skill, finesse and patience at the track. I need more of all three, LOL.

I'm not sure I like the MPSCs any better than the Corsas. I didn't think I'd say this, but in fact maybe I like the Corsas better than the Michelins. I will be running MPSCs for a while, then will switch to Hoosiers. Every Viper at the track was on either Hoosier R6s or full slicks but me, and had very high praise for the Hoosiers.

Speaking of tires, Mike chunked his brand new Michelin Pilot Super Sports on his Ferrari. The chunking was so bad that entire blocks were missing all the way down to the chord. He is fortunate that he didn't have a tire come apart as he was hitting speeds well over 130mph, and had to call the weekend quits after just one day. Mike is an advanced driver, his last car was a 2007 Porsche Cup car on slicks so perhaps he exceeded the street tire's limits. Never the less, I won't ever run Super Sports on the track after seeing that.

Many thanks to Jonathan for his invaluable coaching and Lee for being my sparring partner on the track!

Merry Christmas to my Viper brothers and sisters :very_drunk:

[V10LEE]

You mentioned that the temps on the 1st session was 32 degrees. Did it warm up at all after that? Don't give up on the Cup tires bro they're good tires IMO. They're just finicky when it's cold. Did you start with 25psi fronts and 27psi rears?

Excellent write up, pictures,and wow at Mike's new toy! :dude3: Glad you guys had a great time!

[kdaviper]

i don't believe you're supposed to use PSC's in temps below 40 degrees... they're pretty much glass at that point!

[VENOM V]

You mentioned that the temps on the 1st session was 32 degrees. Did it warm up at all after that? Don't give up on the Cup tires bro they're good tires IMO. They're just finicky when it's cold. Did you start with 25psi fronts and 27psi rears?

Thanks Lee, the last session on the final day was a blast. It took the whole weekend to sort out how to drive it, but in the end was an awesome experience.

The first two sessions each day the temps were in the 30s, and by the last session it warmed up to around 60 the first day and low 60s the second. The later sessions were my best, the tires had decent grip. I haven't done a same-track tire comparo, so I'll keep an open mind on the MPSCs. I will be using them at Spring Mountain in March as well, and likely another event before then.

I ended up running cold pressures of 26 psi on my left (outside) front and 27 psi everywhere else. Tires heated up to 35 psi left front, 34 psi right front, 33 psi both rears.

Todd

- - - Updated - - -


i don't believe you're supposed to use PSC's in temps below 40 degrees... they're pretty much glass at that point!

Yes that is a fact! I verified that first-hand, LOL

[V10LEE]

Thanks Lee, the last session on the final day was a blast. It took the whole weekend to sort out how to drive it, but in the end was an awesome experience.

The first two sessions each day the temps were in the 30s, and by the last session it warmed up to around 60 the first day and low 60s the second. The later sessions were my best, the tires had decent grip. I haven't done a same-track tire comparo, so I'll keep an open mind on the MPSCs. I will be using them at Spring Mountain in March as well, and likely another event before then.

I ended up running cold pressures of 26 psi on my left (outside) front and 27 psi everywhere else. Tires heated up to 35 psi left front, 34 psi right front, 33 psi both rears.

Todd

- - - Updated - - -





Cool man ..
Eh bro karting season opens up in Feb. You should come out to Marina Airport,and drive one of my karts . You will be surprised how much it will improve your driving skills..:drive:

[VENOM V]

Cool man ..
Eh bro karting season opens up in Feb. You should come out to Marina Airport,and drive one of my karts . You will be surprised how much it will improve your driving skills..:drive:

Thanks for the invite, I may just join you!

[RedTanRT/10]

Todd, good times on stock tires. Jonathan wrote on the SoCal board he was impressed with your G5. Get some R-6's and see what happens I went in October, hadn't been there in 5 years, and had a good time, hoping to get there in the spring. Mike

[VENOM V]

Todd, good times on stock tires. Jonathan wrote on the SoCal board he was impressed with your G5. Get some R-6's and see what happens I went in October, hadn't been there in 5 years, and had a good time, hoping to get there in the spring. Mike

Thanks Mike, my car's more capable than it's driver, LOL. As soon as I wear out my MPSCs (I have two new sets), I plan on getting some Hoosiers. Let me know when you go in the Spring, I'll try to join you.

[rw99]

Great write-up, Todd! Nice to run with that group, too...

PSCs cold, boy, look out.

[MtnBiker]

Nice write up. I run Mich Super Sports and have not seen any chunking. But I know I can't run as hard as Mike anyway. Anyway, I have just put on new tires and will be tracking in Jan. Your comment about the chunking makes me nervous.

[ViperSmith]

I am jealous of you CA guys.

Hopefully your state splits into 6 and there will be some more conservative areas I can move to :)

[V10LEE]

I am jealous of you CA guys.

Hopefully your state splits into 6 and there will be some more conservative areas I can move to :)

Lol Smith. It's not bad here in Cali. There's "pros and cons" in ANY state you live in..

[ViperSmith]

Lol Smith. It's not bad here in Cali. There's "pros and cons" in ANY state you live in..
I like my guns too much LOL

[ieem01172]

"1:46.50 Ross in the white Comp Coupe"
Is there going to be a Comp coupe for the gen V ? Was there one for the gen IV ?

[RedTanRT/10]

"1:46.50 Ross in the white Comp Coupe"
Is there going to be a Comp coupe for the gen V ? Was there one for the gen IV ?

Saw Ross's time on the SoCal site, he is super quick driver and knows vipers very well, coached for a couple of guys in the X series.

The Gen IV race car was the ACR-X

Latest version from the Gen 5 is the GT3-R

http://www.drivesrt.com/racing/viper-gt3r/

[VENOM V]

Great write-up, Todd! Nice to run with that group, too...

PSCs cold, boy, look out.

Amen, brother Rich. I thought it was sufficient to just avoid the rain but with these cold temps we were ice skating. On the first session of the first day, I slid off on turn 1. On the second day I just skipped the first session altogether, and rode in Jonathan's GTS-R which was on full slicks. He slid off on turn 1 too, so I felt better :-P

[VENOM V]

I like my guns too much LOL

Well I'm a gun toting conservative as well, although I will admit we are few and far between on the left coast, lol

[VENOM V]

Saw Ross's time on the SoCal site, he is super quick driver and knows vipers very well, coached for a couple of guys in the X series.

The Gen IV race car was the ACR-X

Latest version from the Gen 5 is the GT3-R

http://www.drivesrt.com/racing/viper-gt3r/

Used Viper race cars are bargains. One of the guys I tracked with had a Comp Coupe for sale for $85k. Viper Exchange has four race cars for sale in a variety of flavors, including a 2010 ACR-X that won two Viper Cup National Championships for $80k. Heck, I have $60k invested in my Camaro track car (including new price). It's nice to be able to drive to the track in a streetable car, but these Viper race cars make it awfully tempting to get a trailer.

First things first, I gotta master my stock Viper before thinking about a race car, haha. I guess I shouldn't be too disappointed because at the end of the day I was turning faster laps than one of the Comp Coupes.

[VENOM V]

Here's a shot of me flying off the track at turn 1 early in the morning. My friend that's associated with Cadillac took pleasure pointing me to this shot that's posted on the CadillacRace facebook page. That's ok, I'll continue to pass blame to the frigidly cold tires and brakes, LOL.

1999

[VENOM V]

Nice write up. I run Mich Super Sports and have not seen any chunking. But I know I can't run as hard as Mike anyway. Anyway, I have just put on new tires and will be tracking in Jan. Your comment about the chunking makes me nervous.

I don't know if it was the cold weather that caused the chunking, but yeah that was a scary sight. Just keep an eye on them after each session I'm sure you'll be fine.

[XSnake]

Sports Cups are VERY sensitive to outside temp and pressures. Were you making adjustments throughout the weekend trying to see if you could improve how they felt?

[Redsled]

You did great out there Todd, especially in a your new Gen V. Glad I could help you to shave some seconds off your lap times. Let me know when you're heading down this way again and I'd be happy to help you out again.

[Nine Ball]

Good write-up, I dig the details you shared about your weekend. MPSC tires in cold weather are pretty useless. Even on mild temp days they take a good hard lap just to warm up to where they work great. I'm betting the Corsas would have held a little better when cold, as they seem softer than the MPSC tires from the beginning.

Tony

[VENOM V]

You did great out there Todd, especially in a your new Gen V. Glad I could help you to shave some seconds off your lap times. Let me know when you're heading down this way again and I'd be happy to help you out again.

I should have taken you up on your offer earlier Jonathan, I could have saved myself a few sessions of frustration, LOL. In the end your guidance was right on, can't wait to get back out there again. Hopefully I can bring a few of the NorCal guys with me next time.

Merry Christmas guys

Todd

[VENOM V]

Good write-up, I dig the details you shared about your weekend. MPSC tires in cold weather are pretty useless. Even on mild temp days they take a good hard lap just to warm up to where they work great. I'm betting the Corsas would have held a little better when cold, as they seem softer than the MPSC tires from the beginning.

Tony

It was more of a growing experience than a fun weekend until the very end, Tony. But it was really cool to finally put down a few good laps in my final session. :dude3:



Sports Cups are VERY sensitive to outside temp and pressures. Were you making adjustments throughout the weekend trying to see if you could improve how they felt?

I was trying to, it was an elusive battle. I think you're right, I don't believe the Corsas are as sensitive. Mark Jorgensen mentioned the temperamental ways of the MPSCs in cold weather. I've driven the Corsas in 107 degree weather at Thunderhill and colder temps at an overcast Laguna Seca, they seemed more consistent and pretty damned grippy as compared to the Cups. But hey, I'm still learning so as Lee suggested I won't give up on the Michelins. In that last session it was probably 62 degrees out and they stuck very well.

[Bill Pemberton]

Venom V,

Don't be so hard on yourself , as this entire adventure can be summed up in one sentence ---MPSCs are not adept at cold or even cool weather. Have run them for years and even with the new
compounding they do not really start functioning well until 70 degrees or more. Unlike Hoosiers that work well in cool weather and get greasy when it is really hot, have found over the years that
Michelins work very, very well when it is really hot out, but cool temps just won't let the tires heat up.

When you go back , if the temperatures are alot warmer , you will swear you are on another set of tires. I imagine the runs were quite eventful at the chilly temps you were running at, but keep us
posted , since it will likely be alot warmer the next time you go track the Gen V!?

[Leslie]

those are some cold track temps!

I know at Mid OH, anything under 45 degrees and it's just not worth driving. Sounds like you really handle a Viper well!

I instruct with Porsche Club, still ask other instructors to ride with me every year just to see other ways to get around the tracks.

[ViperGeorge]

I've used MPSS for a while now and I am truly impressed with their endurance. Maybe the Ferrari uses a different compound than the ones we use on the Viper. Never had one chunk and High Plains, which is a fairly new track, has substantial elevation changes while turning. Very rough on left side tires. MPS2s have great traction but wear much faster. I would never use MPSCs at temps below 50, I've got too much to live for.

[VENOM V]

Bill, Leslie and 09viperacr, this is good info. I'm feeling less frustrated about the weekend now. Honestly most of the weekend I wasn't able to run times as fast as I do in my Camaro (I run Nitto NT-01s, which did better in the cold than the MPSCs), so the MPSCs were holding me back.

Could you elaborate on Hoosiers, and their ability to handle both cold and hot? Thunderhill and Buttonwillow often see temps between 100 and 110 in the summer, and as you saw as low as 30 degrees (or lower) in the winter.

[Bill Pemberton]

You have a PM Strker Red Racer!!

[Leslie]

Bill, Leslie and 09viperacr, this is good info. I'm feeling less frustrated about the weekend now. Honestly most of the weekend I wasn't able to run times as fast as I do in my Camaro (I run Nitto NT-01s, which did better in the cold than the MPSCs), so the MPSCs were holding me back.

Could you elaborate on Hoosiers, and their ability to handle both cold and hot? Thunderhill and Buttonwillow often see temps between 100 and 110 in the summer, and as you saw as low as 30 degrees (or lower) in the winter.

don't know how long you have been roadracing...? I have been for 11 yrs and can tell you I have had AWSOME seasons...and others where things just 'weren't in alignment'...didn't like my car set up, trying to get used to new tires, new track, whatever, haha.

I DO listen to my gut, and when it doesn't feel right I just back off, save the gas $ and go out when I feel good about everything. I have never had an accident, rarely if ever go off track when driving, but I DO err on the side of safety over driving 10/10ths. That's just me.

If I have a student that wants to go all out and they have the driving experience and equipment, I am game and don't sweat the 'john deere' moments if they have safety gear.

[VENOM V]

don't know how long you have been roadracing...? I have been for 11 yrs and can tell you I have had AWSOME seasons...and others where things just 'weren't in alignment'...didn't like my car set up, trying to get used to new tires, new track, whatever, haha.

I DO listen to my gut, and when it doesn't feel right I just back off, save the gas $ and go out when I feel good about everything. I have never had an accident, rarely if ever go off track when driving, but I DO err on the side of safety over driving 10/10ths. That's just me.

If I have a student that wants to go all out and they have the driving experience and equipment, I am game and don't sweat the 'john deere' moments if they have safety gear.

I'm fairly new to it, just over a year. However, I got bit by the track snake hard, and have 11 track days completed over the last year. I also took two levels of Ron Fellows Corvette School (5 days), and am going back for a private lesson in the Viper in March.

It's funny that you mentioned listening to your gut. When I lost it on the sweeping corner called Riverside at 100 mph, my gut was telling me it wouldn't stick. But other cars were sticking, so I should be able to. Well, those cars were on different tires and most had big wings. LOL, next time I will pay attention to my gut. I don't push it as hard at Laguna Seca as I do at Buttonwillow, because Buttonwillow has almost nothing to hit. Laguna has big scary walls and tire barriers. So I pushed it a little harder at Buttonwillow.

Agree with you on safety equipment. I run a 6-point harness and a HANS just in case. There was a guy at the track, Lee Walters, that had a gorgeous 4 point roll bar, fabricated by Ross of Exoticraft (the guy that laid down a 1:46.5 in a Comp Coupe that day). Tempting to get that 4 point for the Viper, very onubtrusive and integrates so well that the verticals are tucked inside the interior panels. It looks like a factory roll bar.

[Redsled]

Todd, the times you ran were great, given your experience at the track, the new car and the weather. As someone who was actually there and knows that track like the back of my hand and has run that track in every condition; the grip level was at a minimum. I've run that same configuration with similar temps and equipment 2-3 seconds a lap faster. The track was simply very green that weekend.


Bill, Leslie and 09viperacr, this is good info. I'm feeling less frustrated about the weekend now. Honestly most of the weekend I wasn't able to run times as fast as I do in my Camaro (I run Nitto NT-01s, which did better in the cold than the MPSCs), so the MPSCs were holding me back.

Could you elaborate on Hoosiers, and their ability to handle both cold and hot? Thunderhill and Buttonwillow often see temps between 100 and 110 in the summer, and as you saw as low as 30 degrees (or lower) in the winter.

[VENOM V]

Todd, the times you ran were great, given your experience at the track, the new car and the weather. As someone who was actually there and knows that track like the back of my hand and has run that track in every condition; the grip level was at a minimum. I've run that same configuration with similar temps and equipment 2-3 seconds a lap faster. The track was simply very green that weekend.

Well cool then, thanks!

[Leslie]

yeh I am with ya' on that gut feeling haha!

[RedTanRT/10]

Bill, Leslie and 09viperacr, this is good info. I'm feeling less frustrated about the weekend now. Honestly most of the weekend I wasn't able to run times as fast as I do in my Camaro (I run Nitto NT-01s, which did better in the cold than the MPSCs), so the MPSCs were holding me back.

Could you elaborate on Hoosiers, and their ability to handle both cold and hot? Thunderhill and Buttonwillow often see temps between 100 and 110 in the summer, and as you saw as low as 30 degrees (or lower) in the winter.


Todd, at those high temps the hooisers get greasy (slippery) pretty fast. Most folks I know around here draw the line at about 90 plus degrees on event selection. When it gets any hotter than that the tires don't stick and the motor doesn't make power. I hate to burn up tires and go through a ton of fuel for mediocre times. With all our desert tracks, any date between mid-May to mid-September is pretty iffy.

On the other hand, if the day starts at 30, it should get to 60-70, in the desert sun, vipers (and hoosiers) run great at those temps

By the way, check out; www.westcoastracinginc.com Jim Sexton and his wife put on a two day event at Willow twice a year, next event is March 1st and 2nd. they do a great job and the two day cost is something like $245.00 Usually there are 10 vipers there from SoCal and a few from PHX. Best wishes, Mike

[VENOM V]

Todd, at those high temps the hooisers get greasy (slippery) pretty fast. Most folks I know around here draw the line at about 90 plus degrees on event selection. When it gets any hotter than that the tires don't stick and the motor doesn't make power. I hate to burn up tires and go through a ton of fuel for mediocre times. With all our desert tracks, any date between mid-May to mid-September is pretty iffy.

On the other hand, if the day starts at 30, it should get to 60-70, in the desert sun, vipers (and hoosiers) run great at those temps

By the way, check out; www.westcoastracinginc.com Jim Sexton and his wife put on a two day event at Willow twice a year, next event is March 1st and 2nd. they do a great job and the two day cost is something like $245.00 Usually there are 10 vipers there from SoCal and a few from PHX. Best wishes, Mike

Thanks Mike, this confirms what Bill is recommending. So it looks like I'll hold on to my MPSCs for summertime, and switch to Hoosiers until then.

I'd be up for Willow Springs on March 1 - 2. Isn't that the event that Ralph Gilles attended? 10+ Vipers sounds good to me. Nothing on West Coast Racing's website yet, is this date confirmed?

[Policy Limits]

Todd is livin the dream! Screw the haters...do your thing! Sounds like great fun!

Enjoy!

[VENOM V]

Todd is livin the dream! Screw the haters...do your thing! Sounds like great fun!

Enjoy!

Amen brother Rick. A great life lesson was when I attended my last Ron Fellows driving school. Three of about twelve students dropped out of the class because they weren't able to complete the course physically. One was fatigued and two others had old injuries that were aggravated by the hard driving. These gentlemen waited until well into their retirement to fulfill their dream of tracking a sports car. I felt for these guys, you could see the frustration in their faces.

Life's short, enjoy it to the fullest and pursue your dreams now, not later. Don't put it off. One reason why I am a firm believer in livin the dream!

[RedTanRT/10]

I'd be up for Willow Springs on March 1 - 2. Isn't that the event that Ralph Gilles attended? 10+ Vipers sounds good to me. Nothing on West Coast Racing's website yet, is this date confirmed?

Todd, yes those dates good, Jim sent a "save the date" email about a month ago. He runs two events per year, spring and fall, after this it's October at Willow. Haven't been on his site but he's old school, sends mail invites and you mail a check to his house. He and his wife have been doing this for many years and it started out as the Pantera Club event. Send Jim a note an get on his mailing list, and let him know your a viper guy, he appreciates our support. Take a look at Lance's site, WSIR 11/13 link, and you'll see pictures from the last event. http://www.kouchicentral.com/

Ralph came to a special event last January that was hosted by Dan Cragin. I saw Lance last week at C&C Irvine when Ralph was in town. Lance said that he's working on a date with Dan, probably February but not confirmed. when I hear more I'll make sure to reach out to you. Mike

[TrackAire]

Amen brother Rick. A great life lesson was when I attended my last Ron Fellows driving school. Three of about twelve students dropped out of the class because they weren't able to complete the course physically. One was fatigued and two others had old injuries that were aggravated by the hard driving. These gentlemen waited until well into their retirement to fulfill their dream of tracking a sports car. I felt for these guys, you could see the frustration in their faces.

Life's short, enjoy it to the fullest and pursue your dreams now, not later. Don't put it off. One reason why I am a firm believer in livin the dream!

Same thing happened when I did Bondurant. Towards the end of the day, all the track time, physical demands and heat started getting to a few of the drivers and they just pulled the cars into the pits way before the end of the sessions and went into the air conditioned offices. Sad thing was most were way younger than me. For anybody thinking of going to a driving school, some basic endurance exercises would be wise to get prepared. I also suggest going to a kart track rental place a couple of time a week for at least 3 weeks before your driving school to get you body use to the G's, neck strain, upper body fatigue, etc. If going somewhere like Fellows or Bondurant (both in the desert), spending some time in a sauna a couple times a week for a month or so before going to the school would help your body cope a little better too.

George

[VENOM V]

Todd, yes those dates good, Jim sent a "save the date" email about a month ago. He runs two events per year, spring and fall, after this it's October at Willow. Haven't been on his site but he's old school, sends mail invites and you mail a check to his house. He and his wife have been doing this for many years and it started out as the Pantera Club event. Send Jim a note an get on his mailing list, and let him know your a viper guy, he appreciates our support. Take a look at Lance's site, WSIR 11/13 link, and you'll see pictures from the last event. http://www.kouchicentral.com/

Ralph came to a special event last January that was hosted by Dan Cragin. I saw Lance last week at C&C Irvine when Ralph was in town. Lance said that he's working on a date with Dan, probably February but not confirmed. when I hear more I'll make sure to reach out to you. Mike

Thanks for the heads up on both, I've sent an email to Jim and will be there. I've never driven Big Willow before so I'll track the Camaro Feb 15 - 16 to learn the lines.

Todd

[VENOM V]

Same thing happened when I did Bondurant. Towards the end of the day, all the track time, physical demands and heat started getting to a few of the drivers and they just pulled the cars into the pits way before the end of the sessions and went into the air conditioned offices. Sad thing was most were way younger than me. For anybody thinking of going to a driving school, some basic endurance exercises would be wise to get prepared. I also suggest going to a kart track rental place a couple of time a week for at least 3 weeks before your driving school to get you body use to the G's, neck strain, upper body fatigue, etc. If going somewhere like Fellows or Bondurant (both in the desert), spending some time in a sauna a couple times a week for a month or so before going to the school would help your body cope a little better too.

George

Good advice George. My biggest challenge is maintaining mental focus in the last session, my brain is more tired than my body at that point, lol.

FYI I'm headed to Wine Country Motorsports to try out various seats for the Camaro. I'll be getting my rollbar, seats and harness installed in it very soon. Join me if you're free this AM. I'll be there about 10:45, then heading home to see the Niners crush the Cardinals :D

[TrackAire]

Good advice George. My biggest challenge is maintaining mental focus in the last session, my brain is more tired than my body at that point, lol.

FYI I'm headed to Wine Country Motorsports to try out various seats for the Camaro. I'll be getting my rollbar, seats and harness installed in it very soon. Join me if you're free this AM. I'll be there about 10:45, then heading home to see the Niners crush the Cardinals :D

Ha, that's too funny. I'm heading to Tognotti's this morning in Sac to try some seats they have on the floor for the Mustang. Picked up an Autopower roll bar Friday and looking at getting the front half of the cage made by one of our fab shops.

Tony at Wine Country is very helpful....great store and group of guys. Have bought all my helmets and race suit and goodies there.

Have fun shopping for your Camaro.

Cheers,
George