Why you 100% need a catch can

[KB Viper]

****my motor is not stock
i went with the dual sealed catch can set up from Doug Shelby Engineering, it's a top quality product and boy does it work well. this is after only 700 street miles. i will try to go 2k miles before checking it again to see how close to full the dirty side can gets. for those of you unfamiliar with the topic, this oil would be dumping back into your intake which will cause heat, pulled timing, caked up valves and possibly detonation. I checked it after 700 miles last month and i got a little more oil due to dyno pulls and some hard street driving.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooeOpJfTnxI

pictures added 3/12/16. this is the drivers side catch can before R29 recall after 1000 miles of street driving
http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii510/kristopherbush/image1_zpsqnv8jmwx.jpeg
http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii510/kristopherbush/image2_zpsvdd4itpe.jpeg

[Space Truckin]

Cheap insurance, :t1236:

[FLATOUT]

Yep it's catching a lot in my car as well. Sooooooo glad it's not going back in the motor.

[Dfunk]

Andy, is this something stocked at VE that you could install while doing heads and cam?

Derek

[Jack B]

I am surprised the drivers side can had that much oil.



i went with the dual sealed catch can set up from Doug Shelby Engineering, it's a top quality product and boy does it work well. this is after only 700 street miles. i will try to go 2k miles before checking it again to see how close to full the dirty side can gets. for those of you unfamiliar with the topic, this oil would be dumping back into your intake which will cause heat, pulled timing, caked up valves and possibly detonation. I checked it after 700 miles last month and i got a little more oil due to dyno pulls and some hard street driving.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooeOpJfTnxI

[KB Viper]

I am surprised the drivers side can had that much oil.
that was the passenger side can that had the oil. the drivers side barely had residue, drivers side was pretty clean

[PTP]

Thanks for the reminder, just placed my order. Bookmarked the catch can page a while back and forgot about it.

[Steve M]

A catch can was the first thing I did when I bought my '08 over 4 years ago...I learned my lesson when I had my '02 Camaro with an LS1 that loved to pull oil through the PCV system. Had Doug's system been available when I pieced mine together, I would have just gone that route...it's so much easier when you have everything you need in one nice, neat package. My Viper is exclusively street driven, and it still catches a fair amount of oil, so for those out there on the fence about adding a catch can, don't just think this is a track-only type of mod. IMO, all Vipers could benefit from a catch can.

[BJG32]

If I don't see any oil on my filter would this mean the type of driving i have been doing on my particular car is not putting oil in the intake?

[donk_316]

If the viper engine was direct injection I would tend to agree with you but since it's a conventional injector before the valve setup then the valve is getting washed, sure you will eventually get some varnish or residue in the intake but is it worth the $500-$900 (!!!) for this set up on a non boosted engine? I don't think so.

[KB Viper]

If I don't see any oil on my filter would this mean the type of driving i have been doing on my particular car is not putting oil in the intake?

the PCV system on the dirty side goes from the passenger side valve cover to right in-between the throttle bodies directly into the intake manifold. The clean side PVC lines are from the drivers side valve cover to the back of the intake box behind the air filter so in either case the oil would not show on the filter.

[Jack B]

The air filter (drivers side) should see very little oil, the passenger side is where most of the oil gets into the intake. The early G5 cars actually had a poor design (valve cover to air filter connection) on the drivers side, that was corrected on later cars. You have no way of telling oil is ingested on the passenger side unless you have a catch can.



If I don't see any oil on my filter would this mean the type of driving i have been doing on my particular car is not putting oil in the intake?

[7TH_SIGN]

Damn that's a lot of oil for such little miles. Especially for a stock motor.


but is it worth the $500-$900 (!!!) for this set up on a non boosted engine? I don't think so.

Not taking anything away from the product but $500 for a catch can is crazy. Then again it is the Viper tax. In my opinion it's not needed for stock motors.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Thanks for posting, KB! In my opinion this is a case of out of site out of mind until you see what is going back into your intake.



Damn that's a lot of oil for such little miles. Especially for a stock motor.



Not taking anything away from the product but $500 for a catch can is crazy. Then again it is the Viper tax. In my opinion it's not needed for stock motors.

His motor has the H&C package now, but stock motors have shown similar amounts of oil.

Not sure what Viper tax is, but lower volume manufacturing is indeed more expensive if you want a quality part. Also, it isn't just a catch can, it is a full bolt on kit that requires no modification to your car.

Thanks
Doug

[FLATOUT]

Yes we are going to stock these at ViperExchange. The machine work and design is top notch. I run the passenger side only and have been very happy with the product and results.

[7TH_SIGN]

Thanks for posting, KB! In my opinion this is a case of out of site out of mind until you see what is going back into your intake.




His motor has the H&C package now, but stock motors have shown similar amounts of oil.

Not sure what Viper tax is, but lower volume manufacturing is indeed more expensive if you want a quality part. Also, it isn't just a catch can, it is a full bolt on kit that requires no modification to your car.

Thanks
Doug

My fault I missed that he had H/C work. That is still a lot of oil imo. My Supra had a loosely built stroker motor and I wouldn't see nearly that much oil in my catch can. Something has to be happening to these cars when taking hard turns.

In regards to the catch can above, its a nice piece. I have made my own catch setups for less than $100. Not much to it. Granted mine didn't look as nice but got the job done performance wise.

I have no issue with people charging whatever they want for their products. Canards for $1000 and catch cans for $500, H/C for $15000. It's always been like that for Viper aftermarket.

[ACR Steve]

so do we need these on the 16' s ?

[Steve M]

If the viper engine was direct injection I would tend to agree with you but since it's a conventional injector before the valve setup then the valve is getting washed, sure you will eventually get some varnish or residue in the intake but is it worth the $500-$900 (!!!) for this set up on a non boosted engine? I don't think so.

The easiest way to tell if you need one is to either pull the throttle bodies and look inside the intake manifold with a flashlight, or pull the manifold and look in the intake ports. On my non-boosted, otherwise stock Gen 4, there was oil residue in the intake. The closest thing my car sees to a race track is the on-ramp to the interstate.

I pieced my own together for around $350-$400 when all was said and done, and it doesn't look anywhere near as nice as what Doug has put together. IMO, what you are buying with Doug's setup is an incredibly well-machined, well thought out part that has all of the mounting brackets and hoses you need to get the job done without having to drill any holes in your car, meaning you can put it back to stock without leaving a trace. That's a very important feature for some, especially when it comes time to sell.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

so do we need these on the 16' s ?

Short answer is yes. The difference to the 2016 PCV system was the driver side valve cover plumbing location change (side exit to top exit from the air filter). What that means for a 2016+ in theory you just need a passenger side catch can if you are going with a sealed type and the driver side is not needed. Many 2016 ACRs have had the single sealed system installed at Woodhouse and by their owners, a few have opted for the vented system.

[KB Viper]

Damn that's a lot of oil for such little miles. Especially for a stock motor.



Not taking anything away from the product but $500 for a catch can is crazy. Then again it is the Viper tax. In my opinion it's not needed for stock motors.

IMO the definition for the so called Viper tax should be explained because it gets thrown around unfairly anytime a owner sees a price for a product he or she believes is overpriced. I believe it is when a vendor offers a service or product to everyone for a certain price then raises that price when he/she finds out the product or service is for a Viper. This is not the case for the catch can, first of all Doug is one of us, he is a Viper owner and myself and many other members were asking Doug to modify his gen IV catch can kit to fit the gen V back in Jan of 2015. After taking preliminary measurements he decided to reengineer the whole kit including finding a better more efficent can and so for his time, energy, effort, material cost and profit margin (which he should make, no one works for free) Doug came up with a price. In that price I"m sure Doug took into account total projected sales and when you do the math; less than 2500 Gen V's sold, 1/4 of the owners are on the forum where he advertises and 1/2 of those owners mod their cars this price point is right in line for a complete plug and play kit that is specific for the Gen V and comes with instructions.


If the viper engine was direct injection I would tend to agree with you but since it's a conventional injector before the valve setup then the valve is getting washed, sure you will eventually get some varnish or residue in the intake but is it worth the $500-$900 (!!!) for this set up on a non boosted engine? I don't think so.
that's your choice and if you think that's not a lot of oil after only 700 miles, imagine how much it would be in-between oil changes or 4000 miles. but what do I know, hell you could be one that will drive your Viper the entire span of ownership 4k miles.

[7TH_SIGN]

Is this catch can baffled? A proper one should be.

KB I'm not taking anything from it. It's well built but I've been modifying cars for a while now, I'm talking 1500hp builds. It was just my honest opinion. Visit any Viper parts site. There are some redicously overpriced parts for our cars. Very thankful Doug offers this for our Vipers.

[KB Viper]

My fault I missed that he had H/C work. That is still a lot of oil imo. My Supra had a loosely built stroker motor and I wouldn't see nearly that much oil in my catch can. Something has to be happening to these cars when taking hard turns.

In regards to the catch can above, its a nice piece. I have made my own catch setups for less than $100. Not much to it. Granted mine didn't look as nice but got the job done performance wise.

I have no issue with people charging whatever they want for their products. Canards for $1000 and catch cans for $500, H/C for $15000. It's always been like that for Viper aftermarket.

every cammed or blower car i've had has had catch cans and they all had a lot of blow by. that really doesn't say much though because i've only had Vipers and Vettes so my experience is limited

[FLATOUT]

Guys I see the combustion chambers in the motors probably as much as anyone outside of Arrow. I can tell you that my 2015 with only 250 miles on it already had a good amount of baked on oil deposits on the piston tops.

Andy

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Is this catch can baffled? A proper one should be.

KB I'm not taking anything from it. It's well built but I've been modifying cars for a while now, I'm talking 1500hp builds. It was just my honest opinion. Visit any Viper parts site. There are some redicously overpriced parts for our cars. Very thankful Doug offers this for our Vipers.

Yes, there is a baffle. There is also a 50 micron filter.

15095

Air coming in is directed in a rotational pattern by the deflector on the input port to give it more time to condense on the baffle. The aluminum baffle promotes condensation but also serves to contain the liquid at the bottom of the can during track running. Finally the air exiting the can is filtered by a 50 micron bronze filter. All of the components are removable and washable.

The effectiveness of the can's ability to separate oil was tested extensively on the bench during the design process. I think the installed results of KB and others confirm it is working well on our Vipers.

As for price, the only way I can reduce that is volume. If someone wants to arrange a group buy with 15+ kits I can offer a lower price.

[CarolinaViper]

15095


As for price, the only way I can reduce that is volume. If someone wants to arrange a group buy with 15+ kits I can offer a lower price.

How much if we can get 15 to order...I will be the first.

Thx

Jeff

[Augdog1964]

I'm in if we do a group buy...single sealed passenger side!

[SSGNRDZ_28]

How much if we can get 15 to order...I will be the first.

Thx

Jeff

I can discount by $50 per can, so $100 on the dual kits.

Single can vented catch can kit P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-DVK $525.00 + $15 S&H
Dual can vented catch can kit P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-DVK $795.00 + $15 S&H
Single can sealed catch can kit P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-SSK $420.00 + $15 S&H
Dual can sealed catch can kit P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-DSK $785.00 + $15 S&H

More info on these kits here:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/11514-DSE-VP-CC-002-xxx-Gen-V-Viper-Catch-Can-Kits

Thanks all, especially KB for the video, Steve M, Flatout, and others for the kind words.

Thanks,
Doug

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I'm in if we do a group buy...single sealed passenger side!

I don't think I can ship it that far, I will need to see the car in person to evaluate. :)

[Augdog1964]

Hey Doug, you're always welcome... while you're here I'll give you a tank ride too... (provided its warmer than it is right now at 5 degrees, LOL)

How do we order? Just need to mention group buy on your website when ordering?

Thanks for the savings... it'll go in fuel!

[gatesy21]

count me in for a single sealed pass. side

[Junkie]

Just ordered dual catch cans and the intake heat shield for a car I don't even have yet lol

[cashcorn]

Hey Doug, If the quality is as good as your Heat Shield, sign me up for a sealed passenger side. I must have missed your e-mail the first go around on the catch can. btw (off topic) do you offer insulation for your shield? googled, came up empty handed. lol thanks!

[Peter99GTS]

Count me in for a dual sealed catch cans kit.

[CLS]

Put me down for a single sealed passenger side kit.

[docwviper]

What's the best way to install these on the passenger side of a 2016?

[cashcorn]

same as a 13 - 16.

[Jdmuscle]

What's really the benefit between the single and the double? Setting up the car for highway / strip use. Has anyone used one and routed the hoses appropriately from both the valve covers?

[Stealth]

Would a sealed passenger side catch can need to be removed for emissions testing in CA?

[Steve M]

What's really the benefit between the single and the double? Setting up the car for highway / strip use. Has anyone used one and routed the hoses appropriately from both the valve covers?

IMO, the double would be more for someone that tracks their car around a road course where you might be holding sustained Gs around a corner, or sustained heavy braking where the oil is really sloshing around inside the valve covers. FWIW, I run a single can on my street driven car, and don't get any oil coming out of the driver's side cover on my car.

If you route both hoses to a single can from each valve cover, you'd need to run a vented catch can...it wouldn't work right if you used a closed system (one that hooks back into the intake manifold).

[Steve M]

Would a sealed passenger side catch can need to be removed for emissions testing in CA?

I certainly would remove it before testing...a catch can is something the EPA and CARB would likely frown upon since they both want that garbage burned off by the engine instead of collecting it.

[BLUETA#1]

IMO the definition for the so called Viper tax should be explained because it gets thrown around unfairly anytime a owner sees a price for a product he or she believes is overpriced. I believe it is when a vendor offers a service or product to everyone for a certain price then raises that price when he/she finds out the product or service is for a Viper. This is not the case for the catch can, first of all Doug is one of us, he is a Viper owner and myself and many other members were asking Doug to modify his gen IV catch can kit to fit the gen V back in Jan of 2015. After taking preliminary measurements he decided to reengineer the whole kit including finding a better more efficent can and so for his time, energy, effort, material cost and profit margin (which he should make, no one works for free) Doug came up with a price. In that price I"m sure Doug took into account total projected sales and when you do the math; less than 2500 Gen V's sold, 1/4 of the owners are on the forum where he advertises and 1/2 of those owners mod their cars this price point is right in line for a complete plug and play kit that is specific for the Gen V and comes with instructions.


that's your choice and if you think that's not a lot of oil after only 700 miles, imagine how much it would be in-between oil changes or 4000 miles. but what do I know, hell you could be one that will drive your Viper the entire span of ownership 4k miles.


I never heard if the term "Viper tax." Off all the cars that I raced or tracked, the Viper is the cheapest to maintain or modify by far...except maybe my Golf R.

[donk_316]

If you route both hoses to a single can from each valve cover, you'd need to run a vented catch can...it wouldn't work right if you used a closed system (one that hooks back into the intake manifold).

This is incorrect. Always run sealed unless you change your oil often. Open systems let dust and moisture into the system. Run a single can from both banks can be and is done. Check out RX catch cans. They use check valves.

IA few drops in a can or even half a cup isn't a big deal. Hell, a 7-11 cup on a garden hose would catch that.

Here, read this site:

http://www.rxspeedworks.com/product/catch-can-kits/

[Nightstalker]

I'm running the VMS Universal Oil Catch Can GEN 2 With Breather & Media. When I purchased mine they didn't have one for the Viper from Doug.

http://www.vms-racing.com/productsinfo.php?CateID=4&ID=534

[Jdmuscle]

Thanks for the replies gents... Lots of good info on this thread.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Ok guys, there seems to be enough interest to offer a group buy on the sealed systems.

Group Buy
1. Website has been updated with group buy pricing for sealed systems
2. Prices are good through Jan 29th
3. If you would also like a heat shield with the catch can I will include it for $425 and no extra shipping. There is a link on the website for this in the catch can section.
4. Shipping will be immediate for the first few orders, the others will require a few weeks lead time while I replenish stock depending on quantities.
5. Please contact me for non-US shipping

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/Viper.html

Notes
1. A single passenger system is all the 2016+ Viper really needs
2. The dual sealed system is only required to correct a baffling / plumbing issue on the driver side valve cover. This issue was only on 2013-2015 cars and most commonly under high RPM, high G right hand turns on the track. 2016+ cars do not need the dual system. Depending on your use of the car, you may not need this on 2013-2015 cars.
3. Vented systems are not recommended for 95% of owners; they may add a bit of performance but are really for track only cars where the oil is changed after each event on a more frequent basis.

Thanks
Doug

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Hey Doug, If the quality is as good as your Heat Shield, sign me up for a sealed passenger side. I must have missed your e-mail the first go around on the catch can. btw (off topic) do you offer insulation for your shield? googled, came up empty handed. lol thanks!

Search for Dynaliner 11101

[SSGNRDZ_28]

What's really the benefit between the single and the double? Setting up the car for highway / strip use. Has anyone used one and routed the hoses appropriately from both the valve covers?

See my post above, the single passenger side is what is needed, the double is only to accommodate the issue on 2013-2015 where the baffling / plumbing allowed oil to get onto the air filter under certain circumstances, mostly high rpm high speed right hand turns on the track. You can see in KB's video some residue was collected and this for the most part is all that is expected unless you drive a track with those types of turns often.

[7TH_SIGN]

Thank you Doug for the discount. Very nice of you.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Hey Doug, you're always welcome... while you're here I'll give you a tank ride too... (provided its warmer than it is right now at 5 degrees, LOL)

How do we order? Just need to mention group buy on your website when ordering?

Thanks for the savings... it'll go in fuel!

See above post.... Definitely up for the tank ride once it warms up!!!!


Thank you Doug for the discount. Very nice of you.

No problem, I do what I can when I can. :)

[SSGNRDZ_28]

What's the best way to install these on the passenger side of a 2016?

- Install the can on the passenger sidebar, the "IN" port goes directly to the PCV valve (use boiling water to heat hose prior to pressing on PCV valve).
- The "OUT" port can be run a few ways, the best way is probably direct to the elbow under the intake manifold using the included splice. See the attached photo for a Woodhouse install.
- If you have a heat gun use Gates 32925 heat shrink clamps or other heat shrink for a tidy install. You can also opt for some billet hose separators but not necessary. For some examples of various installs or check this thread:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10880-DSE-VP-CC-002-Gen-V-Catch-Can-Kit-Group-Buy/page2?highlight=group+catch

15117

Also, I've updated the maintenance information:

Maintenance:

All parts are 100% removable, cleanable, and reusable.

- Check your catch can often during the first 1000 miles or after every track day to understand how often it will need to be drained.
- At 1000 miles remove, inspect, and clean the brass filter.
- Ongoing maintenance will be determined by your findings during the first 1000 miles, vehicle modifications, and usage.
- After each engine modification or change in how the vehicle is used (track, strip, etc.) keep a close eye on the catch can to understand the amount of oil collected.

Full installation instructions here:

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/uploads/DSE_Dodge_Viper_Gen_V_Non-Invasive_Vented_and_Sealed_Catch_Can_Kits_R9.pdf

[Peter99GTS]

Thank you Doug for the discount. Just placed an order for a dual sealed catch cans kit.

[timberwolf]

My 15 filter is still dry, no oil in mass air meter, throttle body or intake. Only 2k miles.

[7TH_SIGN]

My 15 filter is still dry, no oil in mass air meter, throttle body or intake. Only 2k miles.

Mine as well. No issues thus far.

[Augdog1964]

Order placed! Thanks so much!
How about a Gen V battery tender quick connect for the rear, something like a Gen IV solution?

[KB Viper]

I'm really glad to see you sell more of these awesome kits. I'll post another video when I do my 2k mile check to see the difference in blow by

[cashcorn]

Thank you Doug for the discount. Just placed an order for your single sealed catch can kit. (off topic)I've just turned 3k miles. Would a fuel injector cleaner help in removing the already residue in manifold/valves? STP FI cleaner or?

[Steve M]

I'd certainly be interested to hear some other opinions, but anytime I've used injector cleaner in the past, it's always been followed shortly thereafter by an O2 sensor failure. Granted, this was with another car, but I've not used injector cleaner since in any of my other vehicles.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I'm really glad to see you sell more of these awesome kits. I'll post another video when I do my 2k mile check to see the difference in blow by

KB,

Thanks again for the video and comments. I may have a performance "update" to these kits for you to test soon if you are interested.

All others - thanks for the orders.

[KB Viper]

KB,

Thanks again for the video and comments. I may have a performance "update" to these kits for you to test soon if you are interested.

All others - thanks for the orders.


I'm always down for a performance upgrade. Thanks Doug!

[cashcorn]

Would a fuel injector cleaner help in removing the residue in manifold/valves? The kind you put in your gas tank. STP FI cleaner or?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I've added an application note to my website which should better describe the differences between the kits from a performance perspective.

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/uploads/DSE_Dodge_Viper_Gen_V_Vented_and_Sealed_Catch_Can_ Kits_Application_Note.pdf

Single sealed catch can kit P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-SSK
Pros:

o Passenger side installation will condition gasses that enter the intake manifold
o Keeps the emissions system intact, including the PCV valve
o Cost effective
Cons:

o Only working when the PCV valve is open
o Does not address WOT condition where PCV valve can close (see below)
o PCV valve may close at Full Throttle / High RPM / High Load (when highest volume of blow by gas is generated):

 untreated blow by gasses are forced back into the airbox
 crank case pressure may build if airbox line is too restrictive, robbing performance
 Any modification that adds torque or HP will increase the odds of this scenario
Recommended for:

o Mild street driving for stock or mildly modified engines

Dual sealed catch can kit P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-DSK
Pros:

o Passenger side installation will condition gasses that enter the intake manifold
o Driver side installation will condition gasses that enter the airbox
o Keeps the emissions system intact, including the PCV valve
Cons:

o More expensive than the single kit
o Address the results of the WOT condition where PCV valve closes, but not the cause (see below)
o PCV valve may close at Full Throttle / High RPM / High Load (when highest volume of blow by gas is generated):

 blow by gasses are forced back into the airbox through driver side can
 crank case pressure may build if airbox line is too restrictive, robbing performance
Recommended for:

o All stock Vipers driven with a decent amount of spirited street or track driving
o All Vipers that have been more than mildly modified

Dual sealed catch can kit (PCV Delete) P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-DSPCV (coming soon)
Pros:

o Passenger side installation will condition gasses that enter the intake manifold
o Driver side installation will condition gasses that enter the airbox
o Address the cause of the WOT condition where PCV valve closes by removing PCV and changing airflow

 Crankcase pressure buildup at high RPM/throttle/load is reduced or eliminated

• Larger lines to airbox
• Both cans are actively cleaning each side of the engine via airbox vacuum
 Benefits of the vented system without being open to atmosphere
Cons:

o More expensive than the single kits
o PCV valve is removed, intake manifold is capped, airbox line is changed, therefore emissions system is modified
o IAT might be slightly higher as compared to the other systems
Recommended for:

o All stock Vipers driven with a decent amount of spirited street or track driving
o All Vipers that have been more than mildly modified
o Track cars not wanting to use a vented system

Single can vented catch can kit (OFFROAD ONLY) P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-SVK
Pros:

o No crankcase air is entering the intake manifold or airbox
o Cost effective way to reduce crankcase pressure build
o IAT will be lower than and of the sealed kits
Cons:

o Single can

 will not have the ability to flow or clean as much as a dual sealed PCV delete or vented setup
 lower capacity, more frequent emptying
 installation is not as clean as a dual vented setup as hoses cross the engine bay
o PCV valve is removed, intake manifold and airbox are capped, therefore emissions system is modified
o Open to atmosphere, recommend increased oil changes after every event
o Possible fumes / residue / smoke from filters
Recommended for:

o Offroad use only, track vehicles with regularly changed fluids

Dual vented catch can kit (2 cans, OFFROAD ONLY) P/N: DSE-VP-CC-002-DVK
Pros:

o Better flow and pressure reduction than the single vented kit
o Higher capacity than the single vented kit
o Cleaner installation than the single vented kit
o No crankcase air is entering the intake manifold or airbox
o IAT will be lower than any of the sealed kits
Cons:

o More expensive than the single vented kit
o PCV valve is removed, intake manifold and airbox are capped, therefore emissions system is modified
o Open to atmosphere, recommend increased oil changes after every event
o Possible fumes / residue / smoke from filters
Recommended for:

o Offroad use only, track vehicles with regularly changed fluids

[FrgMstr]

****my motor is not stock
i went with the dual sealed catch can set up from Doug Shelby Engineering, it's a top quality product and boy does it work well. this is after only 700 street miles. i will try to go 2k miles before checking it again to see how close to full the dirty side can gets. for those of you unfamiliar with the topic, this oil would be dumping back into your intake which will cause heat, pulled timing, caked up valves and possibly detonation. I checked it after 700 miles last month and i got a little more oil due to dyno pulls and some hard street driving.

Good stuff there brother. I made this post today in another catch can thread, but work here as well since Gen V an Gen IV are vastly similar in fabbing your own system.

I stumbled across this article today, which is a good read if you possibly looking at thread and going, "WTF is a catch can?"

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/ditch-that-pcv-system-before-it-is-too-late-1634156554

Anyway. Here is a DIY for a Gen IV that I documented from a VCA site member (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mp7VBMRmxLrMPqkKMlAExdBx7byaRI7BBYkIk_YNr24/edit?usp=sharing). I generally like doing things on the cheap and myself and this will give you some insight on what all is needed. I still have the whole kit I put together in my garage, but have not installed it yet.

[donk_316]

Ive asked RX to chime in here as their system incorporates check valves and a "clean side separator" that replaces the oil filler cap. This eliminates the issues that Doug mentions about the PCV valve.

Im not being a dick about this by constantly pushing RX when catch cans come up, I have used their gear and the difference their SYSTEM makes over a catch can add on is unreal. I used them on a twin turbo V6. 1 RX can, sealed system with check valves and a clean side separator. Would pull a coffee cup of garbage out of the system per 130 liters of fuel on an engine with less than 30,000 kms. When I know something works, I stand on the roof tops and scream it to whoever will listen.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I hear your screaming, lol. I’ve said before that RX makes good products; I actually contacted them a few years back when exploring the Gen IV catch can. And the clean side separator is an alternative approach to the driver side catch can I offer. I hope they chime in, the more information the better.

Comparing results on a different platform is sort of apples and oranges IMO. I do see a few problems with the installation of their can on a Viper which is overall size and fitting arrangement, and also the fittings and hose sizes are only up to half an inch. My kits address those issues.

Size / Layout
The cans used in my kits are small enough they can be put on the side near the gills which promotes condensation due to a cooler location. The fittings exit from the side of the can which helps with clearance to the hood and below for access to the can for drainage.

Fitting Size
The RX cans offer up to ½ hoses which would be more of a restriction on airflow than my kits which have 5/8 hoses. Smaller hoses speed up the airflow which makes it more difficult to separate the oil from the air. They also provide more of a restriction which can cause building CCV pressure under load as mentioned above.

Doug

[KB Viper]

Ive asked RX to chime in here as their system incorporates check valves and a "clean side separator" that replaces the oil filler cap. This eliminates the issues that Doug mentions about the PCV valve.

Im not being a dick about this by constantly pushing RX when catch cans come up, I have used their gear and the difference their SYSTEM makes over a catch can add on is unreal. I used them on a twin turbo V6. 1 RX can, sealed system with check valves and a clean side separator. Would pull a coffee cup of garbage out of the system per 130 liters of fuel on an engine with less than 30,000 kms. When I know something works, I stand on the roof tops and scream it to whoever will listen.

there are lots of catch can companies out there but only one forum supporting vendor/member/owner that offers a complete plug and play kit that actually works very well as evidenced in my 700 mile check in the video, which is DSE. Once DSE has their testing done on the clean side separator kit you should buy one then you can compare to the RX kit and give us your all important feedback.

[BLUETA#1]

My new set of "cans" just arrived! Installing this weekend.

[PTP]

My new set of "cans" just arrived! Installing this weekend.

Lucky...I was supposed to get mine today but the roads froze over :furious:

[donk_316]

I hear your screaming, lol. I’ve said before that RX makes good products; I actually contacted them a few years back when exploring the Gen IV catch can. And the clean side separator is an alternative approach to the driver side catch can I offer. I hope they chime in, the more information the better.

Comparing results on a different platform is sort of apples and oranges IMO. I do see a few problems with the installation of their can on a Viper which is overall size and fitting arrangement, and also the fittings and hose sizes are only up to half an inch. My kits address those issues.

Size / Layout
The cans used in my kits are small enough they can be put on the side near the gills which promotes condensation due to a cooler location. The fittings exit from the side of the can which helps with clearance to the hood and below for access to the can for drainage.

Fitting Size
The RX cans offer up to ½ hoses which would be more of a restriction on airflow than my kits which have 5/8 hoses. Smaller hoses speed up the airflow which makes it more difficult to separate the oil from the air. They also provide more of a restriction which can cause building CCV pressure under load as mentioned above.

Doug

Doug,
You seem like a pretty stand up guy and I by no means want to come across like I'm dissing your product. Thanks for the info. If the Canadian dollar wasn't at a 40% disadvantage at the moment I would grab one of your heatshields.

[sharmut]

The DSE total package is a well designed solution, from quality components to usability. To boot, Doug is fantastic to deal with, always very responsive and more than fair.

[Rapidrezults]

The DSE total package is a well designed solution, from quality components to usability. To boot, Doug is fantastic to deal with, always very responsive and more than fair.

I second this. Doug is the man!

[SSGNRDZ_28]

The DSE total package is a well designed solution, from quality components to usability. To boot, Doug is fantastic to deal with, always very responsive and more than fair.


Doug,
You seem like a pretty stand up guy and I by no means want to come across like I'm dissing your product. Thanks for the info. If the Canadian dollar wasn't at a 40% disadvantage at the moment I would grab one of your heatshields.


I second this. Doug is the man!

Thanks guys.

That Canadian dollar seems to be putting too many all important Viper projects on hold, I hope it recovers soon!! There was a time I traveled to Canada often and I've seen both extremes so I'm sure it will bounce back soon.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Just a reminder, special pricing on these kits is good through tomorrow, Friday Jan 29th.

Thanks to all who have purchased a kit so far, if you purchased a kit and it hasn't shipped yet it will very soon.

[KB Viper]

these pics are from the clean side (drivers side) can after 1k street miles right before i went in for R29.
http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii510/kristopherbush/image1_zpsqnv8jmwx.jpeg
http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii510/kristopherbush/image2_zpsvdd4itpe.jpeg

[donk_316]

Makes sense since the R29 corrects this issue.

[Viper Pit]

What about a gen IV street driven car? Any benefit?

[Not Some GUY]

Installed PCV Catch Can System with NO modifications to the vehicle.


1605216053

[Next Phase]

$500+ for a catch can???

I've run catch cans on many of my cars and that pricing is crazy... My JLT for my Hellcat was just over $100... Billet Technology is under $200.

Viper tax = engaged.

[KB Viper]

$500+ for a catch can???

I've run catch cans on many of my cars and that pricing is crazy... My JLT for my Hellcat was just over $100... Billet Technology is under $200.

Viper tax = engaged.

I hate when members throw that viper tax bullshit around with no regard. DSE is a for profit business and when you look at the numbers; 3,000 gen v's made, only 40ish% on forums where DSE advertises, of which maybe 10% mod their Viper which means sales are limited, so what should he charge??? Hell DSE has to pay a Viper Tax just to advertise on this forum. I'll say there are lots of catch can companies out there but only one forum supporting vendor/member/owner that offers a complete plug and play kit that actually works very well as evidenced in my 700 mile check in the video, which is DSE.

So how about you R&D, manufacture, produce and market a plug and play gen V catch can kit and let me know what you need to charge, to break even then make a profit.

[AZTVR]

I hate when members throw that viper tax bullshit around

I totally agree. It isn't a Viper tax at all if there are cheap alternatives readily available. What we have here is what happens in a capitalistic society. Seller makes a product and prices it as he deems appropriate to make a profit. NO ONE is forced, coerced or required, or needs to buy this particular product. The BUYER decides on whether the design, quality, functionality, visual aesthetics make it worth the price.

[KB Viper]

I totally agree. It isn't a Viper tax at all if there are cheap alternatives readily available. What we have here is what happens in a capitalistic society. Seller makes a product and prices it as he deems appropriate to make a profit. NO ONE is forced, coerced or required, or needs to buy this particular product. The BUYER decides on whether the design, quality, functionality, visual aesthetics make it worth the price.

Well said. We should have a glossary on this forum and Viper tax should be defined as a vendor offering a product or service to anyone at one said price, then when the same vendor finds out the product or service is for a Viper that vendor increases the price thus creating a Viper tax. Perfect example; when I was at the dealer getting the R29 recall done I saw a sign that said "monthly special, 4 wheel alignment $89". When I asked him if they would do my alignment while it was there the service advisor said that doesn't include Vipers, it's $385 for your car. Keep in mind this dealer does not corner balance, check bump steer nor do they pull out the strings to set toe. Its normal alignment on a normal rack done by their normal alignment guy...

[ViperSmith]

The only true "Viper Tax" was the vendor who bought up all the remaining Stryker branded MGW shift knobs and jacked up the price.

[Next Phase]

I hate when members throw that viper tax bullshit around with no regard. DSE is a for profit business and when you look at the numbers; 3,000 gen v's made, only 40ish% on forums where DSE advertises, of which maybe 10% mod their Viper which means sales are limited, so what should he charge??? Hell DSE has to pay a Viper Tax just to advertise on this forum. I'll say there are lots of catch can companies out there but only one forum supporting vendor/member/owner that offers a complete plug and play kit that actually works very well as evidenced in my 700 mile check in the video, which is DSE.

So how about you R&D, manufacture, produce and market a plug and play gen V catch can kit and let me know what you need to charge, to break even then make a profit.

If you want to pay $600 for a catch can, go ahead.

I'm going to get a bracket made up (or use one for another application) and get this done for half that price or much less. Have you done any research on what the cost of an oil seperator is on other vehicles???

[KB Viper]

If you want to pay $600 for a catch can, go ahead.

I'm going to get a bracket made up (or use one for another application) and get this done for half that price or much less. Have you done any research on what the cost of an oil seperator is on other vehicles???

I'm happy for you, please make your own kit at whatever the cost. But you shouldn't compare cost of a one off DIY set up to a for profit business making a plug and play kit.

Yes I have a dual catch can setup on my blown silverado and a dual set up on my pro touring 67 Camaro. I've pretty much run catch cans on all my cars since 09.

[Next Phase]

Ha ha! Why should I not compare the cost? It's the whole point of my post...

I'm happy for you and your catch cans on your Chebbys!

***Reading all the replies are funny...and I don't care to bump the post.

So I'm cheap and a PITA to deal with? Lol.

I'm clueless on how the economy works? Ha!

I have run catch cans on all of my SRT's and have had good results from BT and run a JLT on my Hellcat. Everyone is entitled to their opinion unless it differs from the OP, right?

This isn't a vendor thread...

[KB Viper]

Ha ha! Why should I not compare the cost? It's the whole point of my post...

I'm happy for you and your catch cans on your Chebbys!

I'm glad we can go back and fourth like this, it keeps my thread at the top and advertises for DSE.

My point is a DIY kit is obviously going to be less expensive but to say DSE is charging a Viper tax makes you look uninformed on how the economy works.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I shouldn't have to justify the price but...

- Consider these parts are not made in quantities of 1000s and not even 100s as might be feasible with other aftermarket platforms, yet the cost of entry to design and prototype is no cheaper, and the return on investment is lower and slower.

- The kits (not just cans) include several custom aluminum parts designed and machined in the USA, not China or Mexico

- Qualify construction and finishes such as type III hard coat anodize, aluminum and stainless steel, even the ty wraps are higher temperature beyond the normal motorsport spec. They don't come from Home Depot or Harbor Freight. The hose is high temp spec to confidently survive the elevated temps seen on track or with headers.

- Multiple complete versatile kits of various configurations (as requested by several owners) requiring no modifications to your car and also allowing for multiple mounting configurations. This saves the customer time and headache.

I could probably put together a cheaper kit but that's not something that interests me. There is a cost associated with free and cheap and it doesn't usually end up being worth the discounted entry fee. Not only does it waste the customer's time and possibly money but mine as well with the added support time and headache. My name is on the company so you can believe I stand by the products 100%. I put a great amount of time, effort and attention to detail into product development to ensure this (see above).

Lastly, I take no offense to those who think it is too expensive, etc, otherwise I would have shut down shop already. This said, I make Viper parts because I like doing so, not because I want to screw fellow owners by overcharging them or sell them an el-cheapo solution. I've worked for many companies that had margins much larger than what I am making from these parts, most every company out there does. This said some prefer to make their own solutions and i can't argue with that approach.

[Unorthodox]

If you want to pay $600 for a catch can, go ahead.

I'm going to get a bracket made up (or use one for another application) and get this done for half that price or much less. Have you done any research on what the cost of an oil seperator is on other vehicles???

It's always the cheapest people who expect the most and are the hardest to please. Honestly, you aren't going to hurt Doug's feeling if you build your own kit; I wouldn't want to sell you anything after reading your posts as I know you're likely a huge PITA and you won't be happy regardless....

While Doug's products aren't inexpensive, they are extremely well engineered and top notch quality. Ever since buying the battery cover from him, which I initially thought was 'overpriced', I have bought every product he has available for my cars and have been impressed with them all....not to mention his amazing customer service. So, while you're entitled to your opinion, you really don't have any clue as to what you're talking about.

And lastly, the single sealed kit is $470 which isn't bad at all considering it's a turn key kit.

Michael

[Jack B]

You are right, you should not have to justify your product, for those that have them, it is an obvious labor of love.


I shouldn't have to justify the price but...

- Consider these parts are not made in quantities of 1000s and not even 100s as might be feasible with other aftermarket platforms, yet the cost of entry to design and prototype is no cheaper, and the return on investment is lower and slower.

- The kits (not just cans) include several custom aluminum parts designed and machined in the USA, not China or Mexico

- Qualify construction and finishes such as type III hard coat anodize, aluminum and stainless steel, even the ty wraps are higher temperature beyond the normal motorsport spec. They don't come from Home Depot or Harbor Freight. The hose is high temp spec to confidently survive the elevated temps seen on track or with headers.

- Multiple complete versatile kits of various configurations (as requested by several owners) requiring no modifications to your car and also allowing for multiple mounting configurations. This saves the customer time and headache.

I could probably put together a cheaper kit but that's not something that interests me. There is a cost associated with free and cheap and it doesn't usually end up being worth the discounted entry fee. Not only does it waste the customer's time and possibly money but mine as well with the added support time and headache. My name is on the company so you can believe I stand by the products 100%. I put a great amount of time, effort and attention to detail into product development to ensure this (see above).

Lastly, I take no offense to those who think it is too expensive, etc, otherwise I would have shut down shop already. This said, I make Viper parts because I like doing so, not because I want to screw fellow owners by overcharging them or sell them an el-cheapo solution. I've worked for many companies that had margins much larger than what I am making from these parts, most every company out there does. This said some prefer to make their own solutions and i can't argue with that approach.

[Jack B]

I recenrly bought an air/oil separator from a major speed parts company, it looked like sh.t, and it passed oil. Just food for thought.

I then bought the DSE unit, it solved the above issues.



If you want to pay $600 for a catch can, go ahead.

I'm going to get a bracket made up (or use one for another application) and get this done for half that price or much less. Have you done any research on what the cost of an oil seperator is on other vehicles???

[lmcgrew79]

Does the recall replacing the valve covers and or 16's not fix this?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Does the recall replacing the valve covers and or 16's not fix this?

One of the benefits of the Driver side catch can was preventing oil from getting to the air filter, this has been fixed with the recall and 2016+ but there are no changes to the passenger side where most of the oil is ingested.

See the post above or this document for more info:

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/uploads/DSE_Dodge_Viper_Gen_V_Vented_and_Sealed_Catch_Can_ Kits_Application_Note.pdf

[donk_316]

After slagging Doug through this thread and crying about RX. I emailed RX and they said they would be building a kit, then no answers to my emails.

A member was selling a DSE dual can sealed setup so I ended up picking it up and then bought a DSE heatshield (this should be on every viper).

The quality and thought that went into all these pieces is extremely obvious. They are almost too pretty to mount. Damn fine quality. Thanks very much.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

After slagging Doug through this thread and crying about RX. I emailed RX and they said they would be building a kit, then no answers to my emails.

A member was selling a DSE dual can sealed setup so I ended up picking it up and then bought a DSE heatshield (this should be on every viper).

The quality and thought that went into all these pieces is extremely obvious. They are almost too pretty to mount. Damn fine quality. Thanks very much.

Thanks for the kind words, Donk, glad to have you as a customer.

[ACR Steve]

Doug's products are the best and he's a huge asset to the Viper community - Doug keep them coming so I can buy more

[Vette2Viper]

With the R28 recall getting wrapped up I purchased a catch can from Doug yesterday. Once the car is back with its new transplant the catch can will be the first thing installed. A few years back when rebuilding an engine on my previous vehicle I was able to literally pour oil of the intake manifold. After seeing that, at least in my book, I feel a catch can is a must.

[nx91notch]

Notes
1. A single passenger system is all the 2016+ Viper really needs
2. The dual sealed system is only required to correct a baffling / plumbing issue on the driver side valve cover. This issue was only on 2013-2015 cars and most commonly under high RPM, high G right hand turns on the track. 2016+ cars do not need the dual system. Depending on your use of the car, you may not need this on 2013-2015 cars.
3. Vented systems are not recommended for 95% of owners; they may add a bit of performance but are really for track only cars where the oil is changed after each event on a more frequent basis.

Thanks
Doug

After shifting through this thread and all the BS about the "Viper Tax" I have an actual technical question.

Not new to catch cans so I know why performance cars use them so no issues there.

The question is for a 2013 SRT....is 2 still recommend and/or needed if the car has had recall R29 performed?

My understanding recall R29 updates the driver side valve cover to the same driver side valve cover that come from the factory on the 2016's and up?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

The question is for a 2013 SRT....is 2 still recommend and/or needed if the car has had recall R29 performed?

My understanding recall R29 updates the driver side valve cover to the same driver side valve cover that come from the factory on the 2016's and up?

You are correct about R29 updating to the 2016+ plumbing and valve cover. Most with the R29 or 2016+ cars are opting for the single sealed kit. There is still some advantage to the dual kit depending on tracking/mods/etc. where gasses will reverse back into the airbox under certain circumstances, but I would not expect too much oil to be collected at all on the driver side. Some do still like the driver side can just to cover all bases. See here for more details:

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/uploads/DSE_Dodge_Viper_Gen_V_Vented_and_Sealed_Catch_Can_ Kits_Application_Note.pdf

[nx91notch]

You are correct about R29 updating to the 2016+ plumbing and valve cover. Most with the R29 or 2016+ cars are opting for the single sealed kit. There is still some advantage to the dual kit depending on tracking/mods/etc. where gasses will reverse back into the airbox under certain circumstances, but I would not expect too much oil to be collected at all on the driver side. Some do still like the driver side can just to cover all bases. See here for more details:

http://dougshelbyengineering.com/uploads/DSE_Dodge_Viper_Gen_V_Vented_and_Sealed_Catch_Can_ Kits_Application_Note.pdf

Thank you.

Car is going to see mostly street driving so I am going to stick with the single for now so it's at least catching most of the junk. Then later on add the 2nd if the car ends up seeing a lot of track duty.