ViperExchange Heads/Cam car goes 10.5@139

[FLATOUT]

Grabbing dinner on the way home but a quick update. Had stock clutch hydraulic issues all day not letting me shift wide open in to second. Had one clean pass but short shifted 1-2 then did my best to run it out the back door. Car went 10.5@139 with a soft 1.85 60'. I really think when I change the clutch this car will easily go 140+ NA. DA for this run was right at sea level.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7WwXoN9DY

[1.8t]

Well done!

[Ninjazx71]

Dayum. Awesome run man!

[J TNT]

Congratulations on a awesome Run !

[Jdmuscle]

Andy it was great meeting and the car sounds and looks out of this world!!! Awesome runs!!!

[yumaverick]

Congrats that's moving!

[Ripper]

Great job Andy! ! Very impressive

[plumcrazy]

andy wheeler is a driving mofo.

[Rapidrezults]

Andy, awesome run man! I watched some of the live streaming footage in the morning and that things sounds NASTY! One of the best sounding cars out there, although I may be a little biased. :)

I saw a few other Gen V's running in the live stream earlier in the AM. Does anyone know what times and MPH they were running for comparison? Two white ones in particular.

[esm_viper]

Awesome! Wish I could have been there!

[ViperTony]

Wow, well done!

[Jdmuscle]

My car is bone stock.. One of the white ones there. My best trap speed was 125.. First time at the track with it.. Hopefully I get better with more seat time. :)

[Jprince]

That's bad ass. After getting my car back with heads and cam from viper exchange, I believe it. This car is strong. It has serious traction issues. Second gear breaks loose as bad or worse than it did in 1st gear with just the headers and arrow tune.

[FLATOUT]

Andy, awesome run man! I watched some of the live streaming footage in the morning and that things sounds NASTY! One of the best sounding cars out there, although I may be a little biased. :)

I saw a few other Gen V's running in the live stream earlier in the AM. Does anyone know what times and MPH they were running for comparison? Two white ones in particular.

Lol you were updating me with my slips before I even got back to the pits lol. Amazing how far technology has come. Guys thanks for all the kind words it was a trying day honestly. When the air was good early in the day I struggled to knock some of the cobwebs off and put together a clean pass. As soon as we got the car to hook we had problems shifting into 2nd so it was a good learning experience and gives us a couple small things to tweak for next time.

We decided to do a minimal burnout and a lift shift at 1-2 to help the clutch hydraulics stay a little cooler. I was really wanting to go bottom 10's @ 140 with a 1.6 60' but the clutch said no. I'll throw the McLeod SXT in it and try again.

As already mentioned JDM Muscle was there getting comfortable with the car (super nice guy) trapping 125 and Nineball was there with his Bolton TA on drag radials having similar problems to me trapping 130mph.

[Jdmuscle]

Thanks for the kind words Andy... Your car is super sexy!! Your car might've made my buddy a future competition blue gen V owner

[viper04]

Andy
Congrats on the nice run. It really seems the stock clutch is not up par with the added HP. Let us know how you like the new clutch.

[1.8t]

Andy can you post the slip or at least the breakdown?

[ACR]

Nice run Andy!

My good friends at Powerhaus Performance ran a 10.46 in their E92 M3 (stock internals, supercharged, headers, ice tank). I just finished my M with nearly similar mods and their tune. Can't wait to compare my ACR to my M


http://youtu.be/XrJwIKKIGp8

[Nine Ball]

Car sounded wicked. Every time Andy started it up and let it idle, crowds formed.

Factory clutch is garbage at the drag strip. Kept me sidelined most of the day, wouldn't let me shift into 3rd.

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2013%20Viper/Gallery/20151206_123850.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2013%20Viper/Gallery/20151206_123850.jpg.html)

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2013%20Viper/Gallery/20151206_121027.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2013%20Viper/Gallery/20151206_121027.jpg.html)

I did have a friend get a nice photo of me, so that was worth the trip. :)

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2014%20Viper%20TA/RPR-2015-2.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2014%20Viper%20TA/RPR-2015-2.jpg.html)

[FLATOUT]

Love the burnout pic Tony. Going to do them in 2nd from now on.

[Viperawi]

It's good to see that monster on the drag !
But I vote for a re-do ! this car can easily do a much better job.

Good luck !

[Junkie]

I bet the clutch would hold fine with a better first gear. Just a poor combination of parts for drag racing

[Jack B]

I have the G4 trans and my oem clutch, then, my BBG clutch did not hold. I think the lower torque and aluminum flywheel force the G5 to rely upon high rpm launches, which the oem clutch does not like.

With the 3.55 gears, the overall ratio in first gear is not a lot different than a G4.


I bet the clutch would hold fine with a better first gear. Just a poor combination of parts for drag racing

[98intrigue]

Great driving, Andy! That car sounds friggin amazing.

[345s-bspinnin]

Great runs Andy. That sounds wicked!!!!!!!!!!!

[V10powerr]

love the sound and the fact that you guys always put your money where your mouth is, in testing, support customer service.

this is not towards VE but i am a little disappointed in the amount of power added by H/C. i think maybe arrow did this to make sure the car is reliable.
i heard from a close friend that he saw a base viper with headers and catback and maybe ECM do 10.48 on Saturday. same blue color as Andy's at the same track.
IF that is the case, this car should have done better.
this is not meant to hurt feelings, just to better understand all options.

[Nine Ball]

love the sound and the fact that you guys always put your money where your mouth is, in testing, support customer service.

this is not towards VE but i am a little disappointed in the amount of power added by H/C. i think maybe arrow did this to make sure the car is reliable.
i heard from a close friend that he saw a base viper with headers and catback and maybe ECM do 10.48 on Saturday. same blue color as Andy's at the same track.
IF that is the case, this car should have done better.
this is not meant to hurt feelings, just to better understand all options.

Upon reading that, I'd assume you have zero expertise in drag racing. Not nearly enough, to make valid comparisons based on data, anyways.

ET is all about traction, and the first sixty feet of the track.
MPH is all about horsepower. A good indicator of ET potential, if the first 60' can be done well.

The bolt-on car with a custom tune trapped 134 mph - on a colder weather day (low 50s outside)
The heads/cam VE car went 139 mph - on a warmer 67F day.

That is a substantial difference in horsepower. ET isn't an indicator of horsepower, it is mostly about traction.

[rlhay2]

i heard from a close friend that he saw a base viper with headers and catback and maybe ECM do 10.48 on Saturday. same blue color as Andy's at the same track.


14297

Here is the pic from Facebook.
headers, catback and custom tuned ECM using HPTuners.

[slowhatch]

Upon reading that, I'd assume you have zero expertise in drag racing. Not nearly enough, to make valid comparisons based on data, anyways.

ET is all about traction, and the first sixty feet of the track.
MPH is all about horsepower. A good indicator of ET potential, if the first 60' can be done well.

The bolt-on car with a custom tune trapped 134 mph - on a colder weather day (low 50s outside)
The heads/cam VE car went 139 mph - on a warmer 67F day.

That is a substantial difference in horsepower. ET isn't an indicator of horsepower, it is mostly about traction.

Exactly.

The car is right where it should be. If it was launched hard enough to pull a 1.6 short time you would knocking on bottom 10s @140mph. That is serious business for an NA track car.

Great runs Andy, car sounds absolutely stupid with the straight pipes.

https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-RvcHLnR/0/X2/CR__5433-X2.jpg
https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-vgLs75s/0/X2/CR__5538-X2.jpg
https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-JS4ddB6/0/X2/CR__5818-X2.jpg
https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-TVd39Cg/0/X2/CR__5861-X2.jpg



Photography by Clayton Richards

[txA&M08]

Great runs Andy, car sounds absolutely stupid with the straight pipes.


I had only seen video clips up until yesterday. It's absolutely the best-sounding Viper I've ever heard.

[Speed Syndicate]

Good driving Andy and glad you made it out! That brown dude at the beginning of the video gave me a boner.

[FLATOUT]

14297

Here is the pic from Facebook.
headers, catback and custom tuned ECM using HPTuners.

Elie is a local guy and we know the car well. We actually put the underdrive pulley on for him on Friday while we were replacing his passenger side window so I was thrilled to see him go that quick. 1.61 60's are awesome in a 6 speed Viper. His car made 600 rwhp sae the night before.

[FLATOUT]

Good driving Andy and glad you made it out! That brown dude at the beginning of the video gave me a boner.

LMFAO the brown hotness for sure. Thanks for having us Amar, always a well run event attended by the best cars in town.

Andy

[FLATOUT]

Thanks Alex and thanks for the pics! Clayton is the man with the camera. Enjoyed seeing you and Jay there.

Andy



Exactly.

The car is right where it should be. If it was launched hard enough to pull a 1.6 short time you would knocking on bottom 10s @140mph. That is serious business for an NA track car.

Great runs Andy, car sounds absolutely stupid with the straight pipes.

https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-RvcHLnR/0/X2/CR__5433-X2.jpg
https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-vgLs75s/0/X2/CR__5538-X2.jpg
https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-JS4ddB6/0/X2/CR__5818-X2.jpg
https://claytonrichards.smugmug.com/Cars/Quick-30/i-TVd39Cg/0/X2/CR__5861-X2.jpg



Photography by Clayton Richards

- - - Updated - - -


I had only seen video clips up until yesterday. It's absolutely the best-sounding Viper I've ever heard.

Really appreciate that, it's loud but I do enjoy it more and more with the cam in the car.

[Jack B]

Just to back up Andy, at the G5 power level, going from a 60ft time of 1.85, down to 1.6, means a reduction of .25 sec X 2.5, or a 0.56 sec reduction in ET. That puts Andy at a 9.94.

Next, with a drop in temp of 17 degrees, that could mean a diff in DA that migh result in a drop of approx another 1/10 of a sec, putting him at 9.84.

it amazes me that people who have never raced a viper, want us to believe they know so much..

[v10tt]

Wicked trap!!

[V10powerr]

andy,
great stand up response, did not bash anyone, just complemented his car.
VE should be proud to have u.

as you can see my point was that if his car made 600 and HC car makes 650, 50 is very low for hc, and ran a similar time, in my opinion.

[DFox]

Congrats man!!

[PRVT JET]

andy,
great stand up response, did not bash anyone, just complemented his car.
VE should be proud to have u.

as you can see my point was that if his car made 600 and HC car makes 650, 50 is very low for hc, and ran a similar time, in my opinion.


Forget the E.T, 4 MPH more at those speeds is about 70-80 rwhp.

Isaac

[FLATOUT]

It looks similar to you because you don't have a firm grasp of weather, density alititude, and how 60' relates to final ET. If you understood how all of those things affect the final recipe you would realize that the difference is significant when you are in a same track same day environment.

The other blue car also weighed in on the track scales at 3,700lbs with driver, and mine weighed 3,490lbs with driver. The air he was in was very good and when our air was good I didn't take advantage of it, struggling to get comfortable with the car. We could run both of these cars side by side right now and they would not look similar or close from a roll.

The numbers Jack B posted above are very accurate in terms of the potential of the car if I can drive it to those numbers. There's still a lot of Indian involved even when the Arrow is working the way it should.

And thanks for the compliments it's a process people that race understand and isn't something that makes sense to those that have had no reason to apply it.

Andy


andy,
great stand up response, did not bash anyone, just complemented his car.
VE should be proud to have u.

as you can see my point was that if his car made 600 and HC car makes 650, 50 is very low for hc, and ran a similar time, in my opinion.

[Evan@D3PE]

It looks similar to you because you don't have a firm grasp of weather, density alititude, and how 60' relates to final ET. If you understood how all of those things affect the final recipe you would realize that the difference is significant when you are in a same track same day environment.

The other blue car also weighed in on the track scales at 3,700lbs with driver, and mine weighed 3,490lbs with driver. The air he was in was very good and when our air was good I didn't take advantage of it, struggling to get comfortable with the car. We could run both of these cars side by side right now and they would not look similar or close from a roll.

The numbers Jack B posted above are very accurate in terms of the potential of the car if I can drive it to those numbers. There's still a lot of Indian involved even when the Arrow is working the way it should.

And thanks for the compliments it's a process people that race understand and isn't something that makes sense to those that have had no reason to apply it.

Andy

Holy cow why is elie's car so heavy? Mine weighed 3650 with the blower

[Snakebit10]

Thats gotta be a guy around my weight in that Viper lol...250lbs or so right? Congrats on the record run. I can't imagine what a h/c ACR can do dancing between corners on a circuit track with this kind of accelerative ability. Gotta love NA.

[1.8t]

Andy can you post the slip or at least the breakdown?

*Ahem*

[FLATOUT]

*Ahem*

Sorry it's Monday and swamped at work. Still have everything from the track loaded in my truck. I'll try to find it and post it later. I have a bunch of slips crammed in the glove box at home.

[CasperZR]

Certainly enjoyed hanging with all the Viper folks yesterday. The car looks, sounds, and runs the part, Andy. Well done. Once I get through some of the pictures I snapped off yesterday, I'll be sure to throw them in here for you.

[FLATOUT]

Certainly enjoyed hanging with all the Viper folks yesterday. The car looks, sounds, and runs the part, Andy. Well done. Once I get through some of the pictures I snapped off yesterday, I'll be sure to throw them in here for you.

Always great to see you Jay, really glad you guys came out.

[v10tt]

Found a nice video of the event here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHk2oUjqd_o

[KB Viper]

awesome job Andy and it was great meeting on Friday!

[FLATOUT]

At the 18:20 mark you can see a run I made where the car got loose on the 1-2 shift, I get out of it and then back in it and it goes 10.8@137. This pass would of had the best trap of the day if it would have hooked and I could have stayed in it.


Found a nice video of the event here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHk2oUjqd_o

- - - Updated - - -


awesome job Andy and it was great meeting on Friday!

You too Kris wish you could have stayed an extra two days so you could have come out and run with us.

[ACR]

Upon reading that, I'd assume you have zero expertise in drag racing. Not nearly enough, to make valid comparisons based on data, anyways.

ET is all about traction, and the first sixty feet of the track.
MPH is all about horsepower. A good indicator of ET potential, if the first 60' can be done well.

The bolt-on car with a custom tune trapped 134 mph - on a colder weather day (low 50s outside)
The heads/cam VE car went 139 mph - on a warmer 67F day.

That is a substantial difference in horsepower. ET isn't an indicator of horsepower, it is mostly about traction.

I agree with most of what you said, however 67 vs 50s are both cold enough. The correction factors on a dyno, assuming same bar conditions, between 50 and 67 are 1.05 and 1.08, respectively, hardly worth talking about (not to mention he was higher than 50). But yes DA makes a big difference when drag racing, traction is also key

FYI: just because a member may not understand the concepts, doesn't justify jumping on him. I get it, VE you have a product to sell/market, it's a good product (albeit expensive) but hey an ounce of honey...

[V10powerr]

good points.

[XSnake]

FYI: just because a member may not understand the concepts, doesn't justify jumping on him. I get it, VE you have a product to sell/market, it's a good product (albeit expensive) but hey an ounce of honey...

ummm, Tony doesn't work for VE.

[Nine Ball]

I agree with most of what you said, however 67 vs 50s are both cold enough. The correction factors on a dyno, assuming same bar conditions, between 50 and 67 are 1.05 and 1.08, respectively, hardly worth talking about (not to mention he was higher than 50). But yes DA makes a big difference when drag racing, traction is also key

FYI: just because a member may not understand the concepts, doesn't justify jumping on him. I get it, VE you have a product to sell/market, it's a good product (albeit expensive) but hey an ounce of honey...


I won't apologize for being blunt. And, I do not work for Viper Exchange. If someone doesn't understand 134 mph traps is a big difference from 139 mph traps, they shouldn't be trying to downplay or insult the performance results. Compliment sandwiches still taste like shit.

[Junkie]

just to back up andy, at the g5 power level, going from a 60ft time of 1.85, down to 1.6, means a reduction of .25 sec x 2.5, or a 56 sec reduction in et. That puts andy at a 9.94.

Next, with a drop in temp of 17 degrees, that could mean a diff in da that migh result in a drop of approx another 1/10 of a sec, putting him at 9.84.

it amazes me that people who have never raced a viper, want us to believe they know so much..

this^

[V10powerr]

Thanks ACR.
I knew I was going to offend someone. seems like people take everything too personally along with egos.
i stated my opinion and mentioned i wanted to understand all options.
Andy did a good job of explaining times (and it helped me better understand this) instead of ranting and then defending his rant.
as far as hp, i still did expect more hp from h/c.

i dont have any horses in the race. i like VE as they truly treat their customers right. i got my ecm from them. i dont get paid to compliment.

my original statement below incase someone is reading more than it:

love the sound and the fact that you guys always put your money where your mouth is, in testing, support customer service.

this is not towards VE but i am a little disappointed in the amount of power added by H/C. i think maybe arrow did this to make sure the car is reliable.
i heard from a close friend that he saw a base viper with headers and catback and maybe ECM do 10.48 on Saturday. same blue color as Andy's at the same track.
IF that is the case, this car should have done better.
this is not meant to hurt feelings, just to better understand all options.

[1ststrike]

Nice runs Andy! Are you running corsa's or drag radials?

[FLATOUT]

I'm not offended at all by your remarks I understand that most people don't understand DA and how it effects performance. The same thing happens with dyno's. Everyone wants all of these shops to immediatly run out and get performance data and we want to do that but we all know that everyone compares all of our data to the quickest and fastest times that they have ever seen run in the most optimal conditions. We'll get plenty more opportunities to run in even better conditions with a better working clutch in the near future I am sure.

Andy



On my car I personally saw a 120rwhp gain over my baseline SAE numbers. That's not a small number but maybe to you it is, everyone has different expectations.




Thanks ACR.
I knew I was going to offend someone. seems like people take everything too personally along with egos.
i stated my opinion and mentioned i wanted to understand all options.
Andy did a good job of explaining times (and it helped me better understand this) instead of ranting and then defending his rant.
as far as hp, i still did expect more hp from h/c.

i dont have any horses in the race. i like VE as they truly treat their customers right. i got my ecm from them. i dont get paid to compliment.

my original statement below incase someone is reading more than it:

love the sound and the fact that you guys always put your money where your mouth is, in testing, support customer service.

this is not towards VE but i am a little disappointed in the amount of power added by H/C. i think maybe arrow did this to make sure the car is reliable.
i heard from a close friend that he saw a base viper with headers and catback and maybe ECM do 10.48 on Saturday. same blue color as Andy's at the same track.
IF that is the case, this car should have done better.
this is not meant to hurt feelings, just to better understand all options.

[FLATOUT]

Nice runs Andy! Are you running corsa's or drag radials?

Appreciate that, I was running a set of Hoosier drag radials out back and CCW skinnies with M&H race masters up front.

[Nine Ball]

Thanks ACR.
I knew I was going to offend someone. seems like people take everything too personally along with egos.

This is where you are wrong. You didn't offend me. You just tried to seem as if you were knowledgeable on the subject, which clearly you are not. I simply replied to educate you. I'm not offended, at all. Your posts read like this:

Great job Andy!
Your car isn't fast enough for the mods.
I love Viper Exchange!

That is a compliment sandwich. Bury the insult between two buns of praise. Still tastes like crap! Don't be bitter when you get called out on it.

[FLATOUT]

DA consists of three variables, Temp, Humidity, and Barometer. There is a big difference when a front moves in with dry high pressure air and the next day when the air has less pressure, higher humidity, and higher temps. If I was the only Viper there then you might have a better argument but we had a bunch of Vipers there, Stock, Bolton, Heads & Cam, and TT. We had a very good cross section of cars that are tracked a lot so we could all tell pretty quick that we didn't have the air from the day before. It is what it is I'll keep working at it and try to put the car in the 9's on the motor, that's all you can do is give it another go.



I agree with most of what you said, however 67 vs 50s are both cold enough. The correction factors on a dyno, assuming same bar conditions, between 50 and 67 are 1.05 and 1.08, respectively, hardly worth talking about (not to mention he was higher than 50). But yes DA makes a big difference when drag racing, traction is also key

FYI: just because a member may not understand the concepts, doesn't justify jumping on him. I get it, VE you have a product to sell/market, it's a good product (albeit expensive) but hey an ounce of honey...

[SinasViperTA]

That sound alone is enough to justify the price :p

Great work man. Thanks for the post, enjoyed the video :)

[ACR]

DA consists of three variables, Temp, Humidity, and Barometer. There is a big difference when a front moves in with dry high pressure air and the next day when the air has less pressure, higher humidity, and higher temps. If I was the only Viper there then you might have a better argument but we had a bunch of Vipers there, Stock, Bolton, Heads & Cam, and TT. We had a very good cross section of cars that are tracked a lot so we could all tell pretty quick that we didn't have the air from the day before. It is what it is I'll keep working at it and try to put the car in the 9's on the motor, that's all you can do is give it another go.

I understand DA, hence my comment about how it makes a big difference. When I made my temperature correction comparison I explicitly stated it was with the same barometric conditions.

Nineball don't you feel so proud, enjoy your sandwich

[Jdmuscle]

sound sound sound.. Andy's car sounds out of this world. As he mentioned with a proper clutch that car will def. be in the 9s.

[7TH_SIGN]

Nice job man. Best sounding Gen V Viper imo.

[Jack B]

You missed the big one, Humidity or water vapor in parts of water/1000. the last time I was at the track, the DA went from 1000 to 1800 and the temps and baro were virtually unchanged. Please do not tell me water vapor is part of baro.

I think the point is, Andy started a nice thread and you added nothing, but, you did change its direction. You are still trying to show how much you know and it is not your thread. I think the key is, try being considerate, it is his thread. If I felt as strongly as you do about the HC package, with your knowledge, why not start your own thread. If I were to guess, the majority of the people posting in this thread think the same.


I understand DA, hence my comment about how it makes a big difference. When I made my temperature correction comparison I explicitly stated it was with the same barometric conditions.

Nineball don't you feel so proud, enjoy your sandwich

[Nine Ball]

Density Altitude for the past weekend. Approximate time both cars ran.

Sat Dec 5, 4:30pm, DA -40 ft (134 mph trap)
Sun Dec 6, 1:00pm, DA +437 ft (139 mph trap)

139 is still much faster than 134. Anyone who drag races will understand this. You don't just get lucky and pick up 5 mph, randomly.

[racegate]

139 is still much faster than 134. Anyone who drag races will understand this. You don't just get lucky and pick up 5 mph, randomly.

Especially on an NA car!

I'm a turbo junkie, but I have to say an NA 140mph+ Viper has it's own appeal. Nice work to the VE team.

[ACR]

You missed the big one, Humidity or water vapor in parts of water/1000. the last time I was at the track, the DA went from 1000 to 1800 and the temps and baro were virtually unchanged. Please do not tell me water vapor is part of baro.

I think the point is, Andy started a nice thread and you added nothing, but, you did change its direction. You are still trying to show how much you know and it is not your thread. I think the key is, try being considerate, it is his thread. If I felt as strongly as you do about the HC package, with your knowledge, why not start your own thread. If I were to guess, the majority of the people posting in this thread think the same.

Never stated it has nothing to do with humidity. I fail to understand what is so hard to grasp, ALL things being equal except temperature the correction factor is minor between the temp. Sir sandwich man nine ball had to make a pickle with v10powerr who simply didn't understand things and instead of explaining, acted like a know it all with zero scientific or mathematical data. Oh and for the last time the h/c makes a difference, big one at that.



Density Altitude for the past weekend. Approximate time both cars ran.

Sat Dec 5, 4:30pm, DA -40 ft (134 mph trap)
Sun Dec 6, 1:00pm, DA +437 ft (139 mph trap)

139 is still much faster than 134. Anyone who drag races will understand this. You don't just get lucky and pick up 5 mph, randomly.

Wow you're good at simple math and drawing broad conclusions, kudos. Oops too "blunt"

Say what you want. I'm out of this thread. Congrats to Arrow/VE

[Camfab]

Two things, first off that is one of the best looking Vipers I've ever seen. Second and more importantly, holy poop, 139.9 or basically 140 in a N/A car that I'm assuming runs with stock type reliability is amazing. Very, very impressive, this is going to be a game changer for the Viper world.

[Nine Ball]

Never stated it has nothing to do with humidity. I fail to understand what is so hard to grasp, ALL things being equal except temperature the correction factor is minor between the temp. Sir sandwich man nine ball had to make a pickle with v10powerr who simply didn't understand things and instead of explaining, acted like a know it all with zero scientific or mathematical data. Oh and for the last time the h/c makes a difference, big one at that.

I never stated that it only had to do with temperature. That was your own assumption. I mentioned the temperature as a generalization, a simple way to categorize the two days were a lot different. Did you really think it would be a great idea for me to go into a detailed density altitude discussion with someone, who obviously didn't even understand that ET is traction, and that 134 and 139 aren't even similar? I tried to make it simple to follow along. Maybe if v10powerr had a different approach, and asked questions to educate himself on the differences between the two cars, instead of disparaging Andy's results, this may have been a smoother conversation.

You all should also understand that Andy only recently started working at Viper Exchange. They aren't sponsoring his car and his testing and race days. Andy bought his own car, the parts, and does all of this on his own dime. I think he goes far above and beyond, on the efforts he does, to try and bring this community data on the packages he sells.

[donk_316]

I think a little perspective is needed with the VE/Arrow Heads and cam package that is available.

Its basically an OEM upgrade. Not some shop throwing some parts on a car, selling them and letting you deal with the constant issues, programming updates, adjustments, trips to the dyno and so on.

This upgrade is bullet proof. Build by the guys who built the Viper engine, tuned by the guy who designed and now works for Arrow... What else can you ask for? Yeah ok, they could have squeezed some more power out of it just for bragging rights but they decided to err on the side of caution for reliability and drivability. This kit has more real world miles on it than every other kit out there for the G5.

$15k installed for this is fantastic value. I will do this next winter. Need to break the car in first.

[Simms]

Nice shifts Andy! Car sounds awesome too. I really want to add this package

[Ripper]

You all should also understand that Andy only recently started working at Viper Exchange. They aren't sponsoring his car and his testing and race days. Andy bought his own car, the parts, and does all of this on his own dime. I think he goes far above and beyond, on the efforts he does, to try and bring this community data on the packages he sells.


Bingo! Exactly what needed to be said. Thanks Tony

Props Andy!!! Keep up the great work as there are many of us that really appreciate it

[slowhatch]

I would really like to see the difference in traps between the Race gas tune and the 93 pump tune.

Andy you were on MS109 and the race tune for all the runs right? Didn't swap ECUs?

[FLATOUT]

I would really like to see the difference in traps between the Race gas tune and the 93 pump tune.

Andy you were on MS109 and the race tune for all the runs right? Didn't swap ECUs?

Correct we were testing a race gas ECU this weekend. I planned on swapping the stock heads and cam ecu that I had in the car when you and I ran at Project X but the clutch issues kind of made it all moot so I was just hoping for any clean run I could get.

I brief overview of the race gas ECU I tested this weekend to clear up any confusion. I asked Dick is we could put together a sellable race gas ECU for customers that purchased the Heads/Cam Package from ViperExchange at an additional cost. This would be a non road race ECU something to make a few extra horses on drag race and roll race days. This was our first test of that ECU but during our meeting last week at Arrow we discussed what had been changed in this version and it was brought up that this ECU was mostly addressing thermal timing pull that would affect the car during hotter track days (basically removing some of the high heat fail safes). No timing up top was affected and since we were running in cooler temps on Sunday the ECU wasn't really affecting anything during the runs. If anything runing a mix of 109 and 93 might have even slowed the car down a little compared to the regular 93 ECU. We are going to try a more aggressive timing map on another ECU to see what that one will do and I expect that to be the ECU that might make a bigger difference over the standard ECU.

For those of you that go this route 139+ is totally attainable in good air for the average customer that can drive. Nothing is done to my car that is special or different in anyway to our customer packages, yes these runs were on a different ECU but we are working on making those available as well. I know how to set my car up for different types of racing venues but that's about it, no different than taking your ACR to the track and making aero adjustments.

[FLATOUT]

I would really like to see the difference in traps between the Race gas tune and the 93 pump tune.

Andy you were on MS109 and the race tune for all the runs right? Didn't swap ECUs?

See my response above, and our runs at Project X were on regular 93 with the regular Heads and Cam ECU for comparison.

[FLATOUT]

Thank you Nineball and Ripper.



Bingo! Exactly what needed to be said. Thanks Tony

Props Andy!!! Keep up the great work as there are many of us that really appreciate it

[Crotalidae]

Awesome Andy!!!

[KB Viper]

Andy--i remember you mentioning that arrow might come out with a race gas tune, i can't wait to see your times on race gas and with a new clutch. On a side note my car is running absolutely great. That heads and cam package added so much more than HP&TQ. it's a completely different car and i love it!
Kris

[7TH_SIGN]

So the car wasn't on 93 oct on these runs? Interesting.

[1.8t]

Not to question the validity or the performance of this package, but the drag runs need to be on 93oct with the standard delivered tune to be 100% valid even if nothing "should" change. Preferably, I would like to see a normal wheel/tire setup as well instead of the skinnies up front. That's said, happy to see VE making a strong effort at the drag strip.

[FLATOUT]

Not to question the validity or the performance of this package, but the drag runs need to be on 93oct with the standard delivered tune to be 100% valid even if nothing "should" change. Preferably, I would like to see a normal wheel/tire setup as well instead of the skinnies up front. That's said, happy to see VE making a strong effort at the drag strip.

The one thing that I have learned through out this process is that no matter how many runs I make, no matter how the car is setup, no matter who I run, no matter what dyno I am on, no matter what the weather conditions are, no matter how honest I am or how much I disclose there are always people that doubt it, don't like the comparison, don't think it's accurate, want something else. I have honestly become tired of trying to make everyone happy, it's exhausting and very expensive for me personally.

This is a list of events that have taken place in video so you can see what I mean:

First start up video of my car, first car we ever did outside of Arrow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWaGaViTc2M

First street drive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJMgDOWbx74

Requested idle vid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjmXqu2Y4Ms

Requested street pull.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjvNVjyUXWU

Requested street pull against a stock car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED_2cRh9NOw

Dyno vid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKRRPO9_7_c

Autocross after driving from Houston to Steamboat CO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV6spuGrRQI

Road race vids during our temp discussions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9p8unRliEU

Another requested exhaust idle video of a "customer" car not my car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCpGsdzvNvs

Then I ran the exact cars people wanted to see me run in full street trim, 93 octane, and sidewinder 2's just like I drive it everyday. FYI if you want to see the difference between a 134mph car and what the heads and cam cars run on 93 octane in full street trim this is the best video to watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lxbEjCOnDM

And then a drag strip run.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7WwXoN9DY

[FLATOUT]

Also in a strange turn of events I drove the car that went 10.4@134 today. Elie is a friend of ours and I was dropping off a Hellcat to his shop and drove his comp blue car back to ViperExchange for some warranty repairs and an oil change. His car is no different than the other fast header cars here on the forum, car was still on the drag radials from his Saturday track day with 18psi in the rear tires and 44 psi in the fronts.

[FLATOUT]

Andy--i remember you mentioning that arrow might come out with a race gas tune, i can't wait to see your times on race gas and with a new clutch. On a side note my car is running absolutely great. That heads and cam package added so much more than HP&TQ. it's a completely different car and i love it!
Kris

Thanks KB yes we are working on the race gas tune and will most likely release it as an additional option for Heads/Cam owners for straight line days. This first attempt was very conservative. We are going to work on it some more. Glad you are enjoying the car I bet it feels new again :)

Andy

[FLATOUT]

So the car wasn't on 93 oct on these runs? Interesting.


On the stock heads cam ecu anything above 95 octane will lose peak power. I felt like we had too much octane with the new ECU in it for peak power as well. I actually wanted to mix it down to 95 but was probably at about 100.

[V10powerr]

andy, i am sorry as my goal was not to make you feel unappreciated. you take great pride in what you do and are good at it.
its a bad feeling when someone puts out a great product and their heart into it and gets unappreciated. defineltepy not my attention.
keep up the great work and keep us involved.
the h/c package has its own charm, reliability and warranty associated with it. i may be calling you soon re this.

as for nineball, you can read whatever you want into my post as i could care less about what you think and your related ego.

[FLATOUT]

Hey guys and this goes for everyone. I do realize it's hard to get the exact setup or exact combination of parts or tests to satisfy everyones questions.

What I am asking you to do is look through all of those videos. At some point in the life of this project recorded on video is an answer to a potential question. The videos with Slowhatch and 345spinnin are a great example of pure non traction limited acceleration data between a bolton and another heads and cam car with good drivers in a controlled environment on a full street setup.

I had multiple ECU's to run this past weekend at the drag strip but with the clutch issues we had it didn't really matter as we felt we didn't even get the clean run we wanted to on the new ECU we were testing. We'll go out again but I can tell you I will never run at the drag strip on my street wheels. I'll be on a different clutch next time as well.



andy, i am sorry as my goal was not to make you feel unappreciated. you take great pride in what you do and are good at it.
its a bad feeling when someone puts out a great product and their heart into it and gets unappreciated. defineltepy not my attention.
keep up the great work and keep us involved.
the h/c package has its own charm, reliability and warranty associated with it. i may be calling you soon re this.

as for nineball, you can read whatever you want into my post as i could care less about what you think and your related ego.

No worries we had a lot of good back and forth about info that matters when comparing cars.

[Evan@D3PE]

The one thing that I have learned through out this process is that no matter how many runs I make, no matter how the car is setup, no matter who I run, no matter what dyno I am on, no matter what the weather conditions are, no matter how honest I am or how much I disclose there are always people that doubt it, don't like the comparison, don't think it's accurate, want something else. I have honestly become tired of trying to make everyone happy, it's exhausting and very expensive for me personally.


Preach on brotha!

[J TNT]

Andy your post's and technical info are a great asset to the Viper community , and I always look forward to your insight !
Funny how some forget the limited options we had as a community 5 to 10 years ago , I guess you can never do enough for some people ?
Keep up the great work Andy and all the best in forging ahead ! :drive:

[Greg Good]

Nice runs Andy. Congrats.

[FLATOUT]

Andy your post's and technical info are a great asset to the Viper community , and I always look forward to your insight !
Funny how some forget the limited options we had as a community 5 to 10 years ago , I guess you can never do enough for some people ?
Keep up the great work Andy and all the best in forging ahead ! :drive:

I think perspective is what matters and you seem to have it. Like you mention where were we 5 years ago with the Gen IV's to where we are today. It's a really fun time and I think everyone is excited about the learning process with all of the new options and it was a great day for all of us at the track on Sunday. It's always great seeing a bunch of Vipers at the track wether it's road course or 1/4 mile.


Nice runs Andy. Congrats.

Thanks Greg!

[7TH_SIGN]

On the stock heads cam ecu anything above 95 octane will lose peak power. I felt like we had too much octane with the new ECU in it for peak power as well. I actually wanted to mix it down to 95 but was probably at about 100.

Cool. Do you plan on going back and seeing how it does on 93?

Also I wasn't trying to attack your integrity. I was under the impression this was 93 octain. The H/C package is becoming appealing but more interested in how it does on 93 octain as I'm tired of race gas from my Supra days lol.

As always thanks for your contributions to our community.

[Jprince]

I can tell you that the h/c setup is a big jump in power over the bolt on's and Ecu. I have a different set of tires coming to try and harness all of the extra power. Anyone that wants to really make their viper come alive needs to give Andy a call. Also if you really want a HUGE improvement in brakes, ask Andy about the big brake kit. It was also an improvement well worth the money.

[FLATOUT]

Cool. Do you plan on going back and seeing how it does on 93?

Also I wasn't trying to attack your integrity. I was under the impression this was 93 octain. The H/C package is becoming appealing but more interested in how it does on 93 octain as I'm tired of race gas from my Supra days lol.

As always thanks for your contributions to our community.

Yes Sir I planned on running both that day as well but it is what it is. I have run them back to back on the street and couldn't tell much difference which is why we will most likely push it further.

[Jack B]

Andy:

Nice results and a good effort, I am with you there are certain people on this forum that you cannot make happy. It is though they want to hear themselves talk and no matter what has been accomplished, it is not enough. Those individuals should go out and accomplish something themselves and then post it, not tear down what someone else has worked for. AGAIN, good stuff Andy.


QUOTE=FLATOUT;183730]The one thing that I have learned through out this process is that no matter how many runs I make, no matter how the car is setup, no matter who I run, no matter what dyno I am on, no matter what the weather conditions are, no matter how honest I am or how much I disclose there are always people that doubt it, don't like the comparison, don't think it's accurate, want something else. I have honestly become tired of trying to make everyone happy, it's exhausting and very expensive for me personally.

This is a list of events that have taken place in video so you can see what I mean:



Then I ran th]e exact cars people wanted to see me run in full street trim, 93 octane, and sidewinder 2's just like I drive it everyday. FYI if you want to see the difference between a 134mph car and what the heads and cam cars run on 93 octane in full street trim this is the best video to watch.



And then a drag strip run.

[Sticky]

Where's the slip?

[SinasViperTA]

The one thing that I have learned through out this process is that no matter how many runs I make, no matter how the car is setup, no matter who I run, no matter what dyno I am on, no matter what the weather conditions are, no matter how honest I am or how much I disclose there are always people that doubt it, don't like the comparison, don't think it's accurate, want something else. I have honestly become tired of trying to make everyone happy, it's exhausting and very expensive for me personally.

This is a list of events that have taken place in video so you can see what I mean:



Lol at this post. You just owned everyone :smilielol:

[swexlin]

Andy, I also appreciate your posts and information. The fact that you're willing to use your personally owned car as a "tester", with your own money, and you have my respect. Keep on keepin' on.....!

[Nine Ball]

The one thing that I have learned through out this process is that no matter how many runs I make, no matter how the car is setup, no matter who I run, no matter what dyno I am on, no matter what the weather conditions are, no matter how honest I am or how much I disclose there are always people that doubt it, don't like the comparison, don't think it's accurate, want something else. I have honestly become tired of trying to make everyone happy, it's exhausting and very expensive for me personally.

Andy, I want you to get Dick Winkles to make you an 87 octane drag strip tune. Then I want you to go run with the skinny tires on the back. Or maybe some winter tires. Until then, your package isn't validated. Shame on you for telling us all the specifics of your setup, and disclosing every aspect of your testing. That is too much information, and we cannot process it at an expert level.

Thanks,
President, 87 Octane Drag Racing Winter Tires Association.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Nice runs, Andy. The H&C package is definitely impressive and is on my wish list (right after a Gen V). I appreciate the efforts made to validate the performance.

Glad to have a few DSE parts along for the ride. :)

[rlhay2]

One things that appears to be definitive is that the OEM clutch is not at all acceptable for tq values above what a bolt on car can generate.

[swexlin]

One things that appears to be definitive is that the OEM clutch is not at all acceptable for tq values above what a bolt on car can generate.

True, but maybe only in a drag-race situation? Perhaps for more "normal" ( if there is such a thing with a Viper) it might hold up. Andy can chime in here.

[slowhatch]

I do not think the clutch issue is a matter of lacking clamping load to hold the tq, but more so an issue of hydraulics and heat in the engine bay. Its not like the clutch is slipping, its just failing to disengage/engage after the lines are heat soaked with a burnout. I only saw issues on the shifts during all the passes.

[Tiago]

if the pedal is not working, staying on the floor, or not actually moving the slave cyl, then yes it is a hydraulics problem, but the clutch itself could also be fubar and not allow the shift.

[Jack B]

My factory clutch slipped, two BBG clutches slipped, a modified factory clutch slipped - my McLeod Clutch with the same hydraulics does not slip.You be the judge.

One step further, at the strip, I am sure that some individuals confuse the clutch slipping with wheel spin, especially past the sixty.




I do not think the clutch issue is a matter of lacking clamping load to hold the tq, but more so an issue of hydraulics and heat in the engine bay. Its not like the clutch is slipping, its just failing to disengage/engage after the lines are heat soaked with a burnout. I only saw issues on the shifts during all the passes.

[7TH_SIGN]

Andy, I want you to get Dick Winkles to make you an 87 octane drag strip tune. Then I want you to go run with the skinny tires on the back. Or maybe some winter tires. Until then, your package isn't validated. Shame on you for telling us all the specifics of your setup, and disclosing every aspect of your testing. That is too much information, and we cannot process it at an expert level.

Thanks,
President, 87 Octane Drag Racing Winter Tires Association.

LOL! That is funny. At the same time, considering Flatout represents the VE H/C package from a product advertisement standpoint more than anyone else in our community, its nice to know what fuel is being used when posting product results. I'm sure it wasn't his intent to mislead anyone.

[ViperDog]

Jack B, does the McLeod clutch have higher pedal effort? I couldn't care less about this because I have a healthy left leg and prefer clutches with some feel to them but want to understand the tradeoffs in performance clutch design.

Andy, would wrapping the hydraulics as much as possible with heat insulation help?

[FLATOUT]

So I wasn't getting any "slipping" at all. I have had this happen in three specific instances. Shifting into 5th gear at the end of the straight at COTA and shifting into 5th at Project X, and this past weekend at the drag strip on drag radials.

The more I think about the drag strip problem the more I think it's not heat related. I run SRF fluid in the resevoir and it was brand new, all lines wrapped in lava mat and heat sheathed all the way to the trans, and the shield by the header primaries was also wrapped in lava mat.

It doesn't do it on the street on the 1-2 because the car doesn't hook up as well and there's not that tremendous force on the driveline like there is when the car is hooking in first at the drag strip.

I was talking with Dan Cragin last night and he thinks the the stock organic material can actuall swell some not allowing the clutch to completely dissengage between the shifts. That makes some sense and if I switched to a non organic disk and it went away that would make sense.

I know at the drag strip that the clutch pedal after the burnout did not feel mushy at all. I would do a very small burnout and then pump the pedal 5-10 times and even let the car cool for just a second before I pulled up to the line. I would then launch the car very soft and it would still not want to disengage.

Interesting.

Andy


I do not think the clutch issue is a matter of lacking clamping load to hold the tq, but more so an issue of hydraulics and heat in the engine bay. Its not like the clutch is slipping, its just failing to disengage/engage after the lines are heat soaked with a burnout. I only saw issues on the shifts during all the passes.


if the pedal is not working, staying on the floor, or not actually moving the slave cyl, then yes it is a hydraulics problem, but the clutch itself could also be fubar and not allow the shift.


My factory clutch slipped, two BBG clutches slipped, a modified factory clutch slipped - my McLeod Clutch with the same hydraulics does not slip.

You be the judge.

[FLATOUT]

if the pedal is not working, staying on the floor, or not actually moving the slave cyl, then yes it is a hydraulics problem, but the clutch itself could also be fubar and not allow the shift.

This is what I think was happening. It was odd to me that the 2-3 and the 3-4 shift was just as crisp and clean as it had always been with the clutch disengaging no problem. There's not nearly as much torque on the drive line up there as there is from a dig in first so that was what got me thinking that it was a force related issue and not a heat related issue.

[Nine Ball]

A friend of mine was the drivetrain development engineer for the C6 Corvette (all models). As you know, Corvettes have the same "mushy pedal" issue when hard launches are made. They don't disengage properly at high rpm, and prevent shifting properly. Two issues here, which he found.

1. Hydraulics getting hot, changing the fluid properties. Inside the bellhousing is also very hot after a hard launch or burnout, that slave cylinder can heat the fluid too.
2. The fingers on the pressure plate are springs. Their metallic spring properties change when hot. Meaning, the fingers reduced in spring rate when ultra-hot, and sometimes wouldn't be strong enough to push back. Hence the mushy pedal.

Jack's observation on the clutches he's tried with the same hydraulics, seems to support #2 here. Weak pressure plate fingers, which hate heat.

[FLATOUT]

Yep I think you guys are right. I'll throw the McLeod in there and see what happens. Alex has a group with another rental in early January, if they have an extra spot I will squeeze in and see if I notice an improvement.

Andy



A friend of mine was the drivetrain development engineer for the C6 Corvette (all models). As you know, Corvettes have the same "mushy pedal" issue when hard launches are made. They don't disengage properly at high rpm, and prevent shifting properly. Two issues here, which he found.

1. Hydraulics getting hot, changing the fluid properties. Inside the bellhousing is also very hot after a hard launch or burnout, that slave cylinder can heat the fluid too.
2. The fingers on the pressure plate are springs. Their metallic spring properties change when hot. Meaning, the fingers reduced in spring rate when ultra-hot, and sometimes wouldn't be strong enough to push back. Hence the mushy pedal.

Jack's observation on the clutches he's tried with the same hydraulics, seems to support #2 here. Weak pressure plate fingers, which hate heat.

[Jack B]

The McLeod effort is similar to the oem, however, the release point is more precise. The only disadvantage is that it is harder to slip, which would only affect drag racing. I have always had all the hydraulics wrapped and insulated.

I do not think that a perfectly functioning clutch gets a lot hotter when the track is prepped, however, that is if the clutch is not slipping. I still feel the clutch is acting somewhat like a torque converter and there is inherent slip on a prepped track, that is where the heat gets into the clutch and Dan is correct, unless the disk is metallic in nature, it can swell. That swelling is exacerbated by the twin disk design. With the twin and triple designs, you have several surfaces that have to disengage. Personally, I think the strapped designs have a harder time disengaging.

Sort of interesting, I had the oem disk resurfaced with metallic material on one side and Kevlar on the other side. They were also converted to a petal type configuration. It shifted fine till I put on the slicks, the Kevlar heated up because the clutch was slipping, the Kevlar expanded and would not allow the clutch to disengage.



Jack B, does the McLeod clutch have higher pedal effort? I couldn't care less about this because I have a healthy left leg and prefer clutches with some feel to them but want to understand the tradeoffs in performance clutch design.

Andy, would wrapping the hydraulics as much as possible with heat insulation help?

[slowhatch]

A friend of mine was the drivetrain development engineer for the C6 Corvette (all models). As you know, Corvettes have the same "mushy pedal" issue when hard launches are made. They don't disengage properly at high rpm, and prevent shifting properly. Two issues here, which he found.

1. Hydraulics getting hot, changing the fluid properties. Inside the bellhousing is also very hot after a hard launch or burnout, that slave cylinder can heat the fluid too.
2. The fingers on the pressure plate are springs. Their metallic spring properties change when hot. Meaning, the fingers reduced in spring rate when ultra-hot, and sometimes wouldn't be strong enough to push back. Hence the mushy pedal.

Jack's observation on the clutches he's tried with the same hydraulics, seems to support #2 here. Weak pressure plate fingers, which hate heat.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing.

[98intrigue]

This is what I think was happening. It was odd to me that the 2-3 and the 3-4 shift was just as crisp and clean as it had always been with the clutch disengaging no problem. There's not nearly as much torque on the drive line up there as there is from a dig in first so that was what got me thinking that it was a force related issue and not a heat related issue.
My 2-3 shift issues were not heat related. I could take the car out of the garage and drive it gently until up to operating temps...then do a 2-3 gear pull, but 3rd gear would not engage. If I could scale my shifting speed 1-10 with 10 being the fastest shift possible (lifting), 3rd gear would not engage 8 out of the 10 times when shifting at a speed of 10. Shifting at a speed of 5, never 1 issue. Shifting at a speed of 8, never 1 issue.

It does make sense that potentially the clutch was not fully engaging when trying to shift hard, but in my case it was not a heat related issue.

[slowhatch]

My 2-3 shift issues were not heat related. I could take the car out of the garage and drive it gently until up to operating temps...then do a 2-3 gear pull, but 3rd gear would not engage. If I could scale my shifting speed 1-10 with 10 being the fastest shift possible (lifting), 3rd gear would not engage 8 out of the 10 times when shifting at a speed of 10. Shifting at a speed of 5, never 1 issue. Shifting at a speed of 8, never 1 issue.

It does make sense that potentially the clutch was not fully engaging when trying to shift hard, but in my case it was not a heat related issue.

There are many many factors here that would create issues, and I doubt people would admit to driver error. I had an "issue" with grinding 3rd gear for a few days out of the blue, then i figured out I had bumped my seat forward by an inch. That caused me to not be disengaging the clutch fully before I grabbed 3rd. Scooted the seat back into regular position never had a problem again.

[Nth Moto]

Great runs Andy, 139mph in an OEM like package naturally aspirated is really not something to scoff at. There was a time when people would be excited about that with forced induction.

In reference to all the clutch talk; the day anyone puts a true carbon disc/carbon floater multi-disk clutch in a car that is properly designed and setup you will never, ever want to go back.

[FLATOUT]

Great runs Andy, 139mph in an OEM like package naturally aspirated is really not something to scoff at. There was a time when people would be excited about that with forced induction.

In reference to all the clutch talk; the day anyone puts a true carbon disc/carbon floater multi-disk clutch in a car that is properly designed and setup you will never, ever want to go back.

Thanks Aaron every time you talk about the carbon clutches it makes me want one :) I haven't decided which route I am going to go yet but I need to do something for dig runs, the stocker worked fine everywhere else at my power level.

[FLATOUT]

There are many many factors here that would create issues, and I doubt people would admit to driver error. I had an "issue" with grinding 3rd gear for a few days out of the blue, then i figured out I had bumped my seat forward by an inch. That caused me to not be disengaging the clutch fully before I grabbed 3rd. Scooted the seat back into regular position never had a problem again.

I agree with you 100% on driver error and I made adjustments to seating position and pedal postion after the first two passes. It was the 1-2 shift which is pretty much the easiest one out there, but I agree other changes can be tricky. I even played around with how I engaged the pedal but nothing changed the outcome except for slowing the shift way down.

[rlhay2]

In reference to all the clutch talk; the day anyone puts a true carbon disc/carbon floater multi-disk clutch in a car that is properly designed and setup you will never, ever want to go back.

I should certainly hope so. $7000 worth of buyer's remorse would really suck!!

[Nth Moto]

I should certainly hope so. $7000 worth of buyer's remorse would really suck!!

Indeed it would, which is why it's a good thing they're not all $7000! Please see here - $3885 and already proven to hold over 1300 TQ @ the wheels in a Gen V, but can still be modulated and slipped.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/11391-New-Product-Nth-Moto-Gen-V-Viper-Triple-Carbon-Clutch

[TurboTA]

wow. impressive

[98intrigue]

I agree with you 100% on driver error and I made adjustments to seating position and pedal postion after the first two passes. It was the 1-2 shift which is pretty much the easiest one out there, but I agree other changes can be tricky. I even played around with how I engaged the pedal but nothing changed the outcome except for slowing the shift way down.

I'd admit if it was driver error... I even mentioned that it the thread I started. I've also tried adjusting the seating position and pedals to see if maybe I wasn't fully engaging the clutch before shifting, but that was no help. I would go WOT in 2nd to redline, clutch in, and try to put it in 3rd, but you could hear the synchros fighting right away. The only way to alleviate the issue was to slow my effort of shifting into 3rd. Either way, I have a new transmission on order.

[cashcorn]

^^^how does your clutch look?

[Jack B]

What type of lead time on the trans?


I'd admit if it was driver error... I even mentioned that it the thread I started. I've also tried adjusting the seating position and pedals to see if maybe I wasn't fully engaging the clutch before shifting, but that was no help. I would go WOT in 2nd to redline, clutch in, and try to put it in 3rd, but you could hear the synchros fighting right away. The only way to alleviate the issue was to slow my effort of shifting into 3rd. Either way, I have a new transmission on order.

[98intrigue]

^^^how does your clutch look?

What type of lead time on the trans?
Sorry, guys...I don't want to derail this thread. My thread is posted here: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/11587-Transmission-issues

[gmiles]

Dragged my 14 out today. Managed a 10.3 @ 146.9 taking one full pass and parking it.
Needs a clutch and the driver needs some seat time...




https://youtu.be/tyzqIs20nyA

[Solid Red 98]

Dragged my 14 out today. Managed a 10.3 @ 146.9 taking one full pass and parking it.
Needs a clutch and the driver needs some seat time...


https://youtu.be/tyzqIs20nyA

Wow that is MOVIN'! What mods do you have? Just H/C, exhaust, and radials? Nice run! Sounds great too!

[gmiles]

headers, no cats, stock mufflers, tuned, 250 shot, nt05's.. it's first time at the strip. Thinking about the H/C...

[KB Viper]

that's an awesome run!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyzqIs20nyA&feature=youtu.be

[Junkie]

Indeed it would, which is why it's a good thing they're not all $7000! Please see here - $3885 and already proven to hold over 1300 TQ @ the wheels in a Gen V, but can still be modulated and slipped.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/11391-New-Product-Nth-Moto-Gen-V-Viper-Triple-Carbon-Clutch

I just wish it wasn't an RPS product :-( I've had 5 of them and hated every single one.

Always loved my Tiltons.

Change the 1st gear and use a carbon clutch. Trans combo would be so great!

[FLATOUT]

Dragged my 14 out today. Managed a 10.3 @ 146.9 taking one full pass and parking it.
Needs a clutch and the driver needs some seat time...




https://youtu.be/tyzqIs20nyA

Would be more than happy to put our heads and cam package on your car.

awheeler@viperexchange.com

[Jdmuscle]

146 is moving... Awesome run. A 250 shot really does magic with these cars huh.

I'm sure once Arrow does their magic with the nitrous tuning for the H/C pkg... It'll be a force out on the strips with 155mph cars all day long!!

[ACR Xtreme]

Can we see the timeslip?

[FLATOUT]

Can we see the timeslip?

Maybe we can take that run to another thread since it doesn't have anything to do with this one ;) If it was one of our customers heads and cam cars I would say leave it, but it's a power adder bolton car. Not trying to be a jerk just trying to keep this thread on topic.

Andy

[Jdmuscle]

^^ agreed

[pdv25]

Maybe we can take that run to another thread since it doesn't have anything to do with this one ;) If it was one of our customers heads and cam cars I would say leave it, but it's a power adder bolton car. Not trying to be a jerk just trying to keep this thread on topic.

Andy

What a jerk! lol J.K.

[Nine Ball]

Andy, would it be cool if I posted my timeslips and video of my 2014 Dodge Ram in your thread? I bought it at Tomball Dodge. LOL

[98intrigue]

Andy, would it be cool if I posted my timeslips and video of my 2014 Dodge Ram in your thread? I bought it at Tomball Dodge. LOL

Such a smart ass, but I like it. My previous '03 Viper was once sold by Viper Exhange...maybe I'll add my contribution to this thread if Andy gives the ok.

[Jack B]

Andy

you cannot win, decorum and common sense no longer prevail.


Maybe we can take that run to another thread since it doesn't have anything to do with this one ;) If it was one of our customers heads and cam cars I would say leave it, but it's a power adder bolton car. Not trying to be a jerk just trying to keep this thread on topic.

Andy

[Junkie]

Would be more than happy to put our heads and cam package on your car.

awheeler@viperexchange.com

How is he going to continue using the nitrous?

[viper04]

How is he going to continue using the nitrous?

I think Andy said they are coming out with a nitrous tune for the H/C package. I think KB viper is waiting on one.

[Murpowa]

I think Andy said they are coming out with a nitrous tune for t the H/C package. I think KB viper is waiting on one.

Correct

[FLATOUT]

How is he going to continue using the nitrous?

Will I was just trying to get the thread back on topic but yes we have a kit enroute to begin working on a nitrous cal for the Heads and Cam kits.

Andy

[plumcrazy]

please keep it on topic or i have to delete posts..

[Junkie]

Well thats freakin awesome! 660whp NA would make for a blast on daily driving duty, Looking forward to seeing the updates.

[ACR Xtreme]

I was referring to YOUR timeslip.


Maybe we can take that run to another thread since it doesn't have anything to do with this one ;) If it was one of our customers heads and cam cars I would say leave it, but it's a power adder bolton car. Not trying to be a jerk just trying to keep this thread on topic.

Andy