Stock gen2 Brakes acting wierd.

[Josrocket]

When I am doing "spirited driving" my brakes tend to misbehave in different ways. Its only when they are heated up for the most part. All pads, and rotors are good. Pedal isnt going to the floor or anything like that and fluid is good and water free. Sometimes I lose stopping power. Stopping power never really feels the same. Other times if I brake hard it will feel like the pads are crumbling. I had an instance yesterday where I lightly braked at high speed and the car pulled to the right.

I want the brakes to be more consistent and reliable. I dont want to wreck. Any advice would be helpful.

[Bill Pemberton]

You say all your pads and rotors are good, but that definition is not sufficient for the rest of us when noting you have a 15 year old car. First off how old are the pads, when were the rotors replaced, and more importantly when was the last time the brake fluid was flushed. Heck, a concern with your master cylinder would not be unusual for a car the age of yours. Notice you are a member of the Carolinas Region and it sure sounds like a trip to have Tom Sessions down near Wilmington is in your cards?!

[99RT10]

Do the brakes get harder? Is it possible the brake booster is failing causing harder braking? If it is pulling, wondering if one of the calipers is failing.. Bill is spot on, call Tom Sessions. He is in your backyard!!!

[Fatboy 18]

When were the calipers last rebuilt? I bet the rubber dust seals may have gone and it would not surprise me if one of the pistons is not working as it should be?

Are you still using the stock rubber brake lines or has the car been upgraded to Stainless steel lines?

[Josrocket]

The rotors, pads, and fluid were done last feb. Its done weird stuff like this since I bought it.

[Josrocket]

You may be on to something with the brake calipers. Yes brake lines are stock

[Josrocket]

Do the brakes get harder? Is it possible the brake booster is failing causing harder braking? If it is pulling, wondering if one of the calipers is failing.. Bill is spot on, call Tom Sessions. He is in your backyard!!!

It only pulls extremely seldom and very lightly when it does. Most of it is how hard it brakes. The brake power can be random. No matter how much pressure I put on the pedal or if I am consistent it may do something different.

[Steve-Indy]

Tom Sessions 910-228-8477

[dave6666]

You could be boiling the fluid or your calipers have sticking cups making for inconsistent pedal travel each time or your hubs could be wobbling and are giving you pad knock back which will alter the pedal travel from event to event. If one of the times you think you have weaker braking than you should does it alter the braking performance if you quickly release the pedal and reapply it? A pump if you will?

[v10enomous]

I was at a Cars and Coffee yesterday with another GenII owner and we were laughing about how the stock brakes feel broken even when they are fine. We were considering cutting a hole in the floor and going full Fred Flintstone...hahaha

[AZTVR]

I was at a Cars and Coffee yesterday with another GenII owner and we were laughing about how the stock brakes feel broken even when they are fine. We were considering cutting a hole in the floor and going full Fred Flintstone...hahaha

I know a guy that tracked his Gen 2 and kept up with good Gen 3 drivers in the red group, with stock brakes (but upgraded pads). And guys in the intermediate group making good time. They were the ABS Gen IIs; though.

[Bill Pemberton]

Most guys who tracked their Gen IIs and got quick without frying their brakes/rotors/pads ended up having duct work that was designed by Bob Woodhouse. Henry Cone chatted with Bob W. , years ago and asked if he could improve on the idea , and designed a kit for many folks to use. A lot of us went from using two sets or more of pads a weekend to running 3-4 weekends without considering a change ( and not boiling the fluid). There are a myriad of issues it could be on any vehicle of this age, so as I mentioned and the kind gentleman from Indy listed , just call Tom Sessions and get your concern handled by a supreme Viper Tech who has worked on these machines for longer than your car has existed.

[dave6666]

Don't ignore your own intelligence. This is not rocket science.

[Sybil TF]

I was at a Cars and Coffee yesterday with another GenII owner and we were laughing about how the stock brakes feel broken even when they are fine. We were considering cutting a hole in the floor and going full Fred Flintstone...hahahaLol

[Tom, F&L GoR]

Just an idea:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10674-40mm-Rear-Brake-calipers-for-Gen-1-and-Gen-2-%28non-ABS%29

[Bill Pemberton]

Tom,

Gentleman has a 2001 , so not pertinent to his concern. Again , frankly politely disagree with Dave6666 , this can be rocket science with everything from the ABS system, to the calipers , to pads , to master cylinder, etc. it would be wise to get your car to Tom Sessions and have it corrected. There are so many variables and we have seen numerous accidents with guys racing who had similar issues and could not figure out the problem, time to take it to a expert who works on lots of Vipers , and has experience from Gen 1 through Gen V.

[thetalonguy]

Most guys who tracked their Gen IIs and got quick without frying their brakes/rotors/pads ended up having duct work that was designed by Bob Woodhouse. Henry Cone chatted with Bob W. , years ago and asked if he could improve on the idea , and designed a kit for many folks to use. A lot of us went from using two sets or more of pads a weekend to running 3-4 weekends without considering a change ( and not boiling the fluid).

Hi Bill, do you have any more info on this kit? Guessing it's no longer produced? Is it similar to the Porsche air deflectors?

[Bill Pemberton]

No , Bob Woodhouse came up with the Porsche brake deflectors and we sold a bunch of those initially, but as guys went faster the Gen IIs were destroying pads ( and rotors ) at a furious pace for the fast guys. Bob cut through the radiator support and hooked up some brake duct tubing and a deflector on the end to cool the rotors and the change was dramatic. My 1998 was one of the first ones done, and Henry Cone viewed it and asked if he could improve upon it ( essentially making parts and a kit). We had just built ours for customers when requested and at one time Henry sold a few , and then Jon B. also had some Henry sent him. Janni will probably shoot me for bringing it up as Henry stays busy enough and if he had to start making kits again he would be swamped , but what the heck , it is a great system for track guys. Who knows, maybe Jon B. still has a few laying around??

[thetalonguy]

Thanks for the info Bill. Good to know!

[Tom, F&L GoR]

My bad. Phone font size of signatures way small.

[Atari_Prime]

I was at a Cars and Coffee yesterday with another GenII owner and we were laughing about how the stock brakes feel broken even when they are fine. We were considering cutting a hole in the floor and going full Fred Flintstone...hahaha

Where are you located? Most of the Cars and Coffee are in Southern California. I just bought a 98' GTS, I'm looking forward to meeting some local club members.

[DaveW]

The rotors, pads, and fluid were done last feb. Its done weird stuff like this since I bought it.
Hey, Josh. It's at least an 8-9 hour drive for you from Western NC where you live to Tom's place on the east coast (for the benefit of others reading this thread). However, as you literally live on the Tail of the Dragon and probably put more miles and time on it than any other Viper owner, I suggest you ask Tom to check out your car. Let me know if I can help. I live in Winston-Salem, which is halfway on your drive.

[Fly boy]

Hey, Josh. It's at least an 8-9 hour drive for you from Western NC where you live to Tom's place on the east coast (for the benefit of others reading this thread). However, as you literally live on the Tail of the Dragon and probably put more miles and time on it than any other Viper owner, I suggest you ask Tom to check out your car. Let me know if I can help. I live in Winston-Salem, which is halfway on your drive.

Tom is super busy these days. I'm on the wait list for my 97 GTS to have some gears put in and to solve a few other small issues. He must be the man because he had about 9 cars at his shop the last time I talked to him!

[Tom, F&L GoR]

13666

I have seen caliper slides get rusty from torn or dried boots. Then they get stuck intermittently. If you take the pads out, put the caliper back on, can you move the caliper towards and away from the differential? It should easily slide on the greased pins. The heads of these pins are the hex heads in this image, not the larger bolts that attach the saddle to the upright.