Is this the end? [Archive] - Viper Owners Association

Vprbite

10-10-2015, 02:24 AM

Allpar takes wild speculation to an impressive level.

And a lot of people just plunked down big cash on a car with three speakers and no carpets, so, it seems like the viper is doing just fine had they not tried to sell 2500 of them per year. If they had made the same number as usual, and dealers didn't throw that huge markup on them, the 2013s wouldn't have sat on lots. I mean, I had an 02 and now an 06, and everywhere I go people get excited about my car. The public loves is car. Put a few commercials out there and the car will her a whole new life. Half the time people don't even know if the car is still made.

Viper vince

10-10-2015, 06:56 AM

I was at the plant last week they are only making 3 cars per day. They cannot operate a factory that only makes 3 cars per day and maintain a profit.

ViperSmith

10-10-2015, 07:10 AM

Chrysler is making GOBS of cash and has been for awhile now. They can afford to let the Viper be a loss leader if they want. I have to speculate that FCA wants the Viper to be at least a bit more appealing and selling more than it is. If the Viper sticks around after 2017, I'd imagine it has DCT and a FI V8 (hopefully with KERS type system). Dodge isn't going to throw the Viper name brand to the side just because some think the Viper should always have a V10 in it.

I can't imagine the 1-of-1 program, CCB, were all done to be killed in 2 years.

Coloviper

10-10-2015, 08:39 AM

Might have to change the name to Gard-R from Viper if they change it too much.

ACRucrazy

10-10-2015, 08:54 AM

DCT, V8 & KERS is not Viper. Kill it for all I care if they go that route.

TCurtner

10-10-2015, 09:34 AM

Dick is gone. Ralph is now head of design for Fiat/Chrysler. The SRT brand is no more. I could totally see Dodge dumping the Viper and Prefix picking it up.

Allpar takes wild speculation to an impressive level.

And a lot of people just plunked down big cash on a car with three speakers and no carpets, so, it seems like the viper is doing just fine had they not tried to sell 2500 of them per year. If they had made the same number as usual, and dealers didn't throw that huge markup on them, the 2013s wouldn't have sat on lots. I mean, I had an 02 and now an 06, and everywhere I go people get excited about my car. The public loves is car. Put a few commercials out there and the car will her a whole new life. Half the time people don't even know if the car is still made.

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2015/10/viper-leaving-in-2017-30239?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I sure hope not. Jr. Viper coming down the pipe kind of like a redux Ford GT?

Anybody willing to accept a V-6 in a Viper? How about a V-8?

I feared this after watching the dismal sales of the GenV - it cannot be much of a money maker - considering the hand builds and the shipping of parts around before assembly - and probably at this point more of a loss leader. We can debate the wisdom of it, but eventually even exotics are made for someone/some business to make $$$$. I certainly hope that someone like Prefix will continue the legacy - IF THIS IS TRUE. As to motors, the romance is of course the v10. However, i have longed for an overhead cam v10/dry sump setup for years - that would drive costs up even more, but might help the car's desirability as compared to more expensive exotics. Maybe even a higher dollar 800HP engine option and 8500 rpm?? Weight of car is always a factor, and 3100lbs would be a nice target to shoot for in a Gen VI....

ViperSmith

10-10-2015, 10:09 AM

DCT, V8 & KERS is not Viper. Kill it for all I care if they go that route.
I'd guess if more people saying "the viper should have a V10" were actually buying new Vipers then this wouldn't be a debate.

Simms

10-10-2015, 10:32 AM

I was always under the impression the Viper wasn't about major profit or sales, it was a halo car used to market Dodge's performance as a company to promote sales of other models in general.

Granger73

10-10-2015, 10:43 AM

I was always under the impression the Viper wasn't about major profit or sales, it was a halo car used to market Dodge's performance as a company to promote sales of other models in general.

I'm not convinced. How often do you see the Viper used in commercials by Dodge? If they're using the Viper as a promotional vehicle they're doing a lousy job.

ACRucrazy

10-10-2015, 11:02 AM

I'd guess if more people saying "the viper should have a V10" were actually buying new Vipers then this wouldn't be a debate.

I have my Viper and I won't give it up to get a Gen V. If I wanted to give up my ACR I would already have a Gen V. With that, I need to work harder to add another ACR to the garage before long.

If the Viper does end because of poor sales, IMO Viper shot itself in the foot by not bringing a topless version to market. From day one they said it was designed for that. It's been said many times over, "I love the Gen V, if only I didn't have to buy a coupe..." This has been said for 3 years now..

Either way, this is the same old debate that pops up ever other month it seems. Same people say if it's not a V10, its not a Viper. Same people say the end is near. Same people say if only they offered a convertible. Same people say if only all you non Gen V owners bought a new Gen V. If only...

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee60/extremely_bored/jared.gif

A C R

10-10-2015, 11:16 AM

this says a lot

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2015/10/fiat-chrysler-uaw-sweeten-the-deal-30234

RedTanRT/10

10-10-2015, 11:45 AM

ACR, thanks for posting.

Read the link from the latest UAW agreement (or the entire agreement). The union has been put on notice, they have no production plans slated at Conner after 2017.

Not the same as saying viper is done in 2017, more on the lines of, at the time of this contract, 10/15, we don't have firm plans to continue at Conner.

For 2018 and beyond, viper would need to be transformed, so much more pressure from CAFE and other regulations. Next gen would probably follow the Ford GT, 6 cyl twin turbo. Watch the vette in 2018 or so, it will likely be v-6 and twin turbo too.

99RT10

10-10-2015, 12:39 PM

ACR, thanks for posting.

For 2018 and beyond, viper would need to be transformed, so much more pressure from CAFE and other regulations. Next gen would probably follow the Ford GT, 6 cyl twin turbo. Watch the vette in 2018 or so, it will likely be v-6 and twin turbo too.

I hate our government. America is no longer the land of the free. :mad:

Vprbite

10-10-2015, 12:54 PM

I honestly don't think the Viper is even noticible as far as cafe standards go. It's such a drop in the bucket, it doesn't matter what it gets mpg.

Halo cars don't make money. At least, not usually. The Lexus LFA had commercials even though they were sold before they ever hit lots. Why? To make people excited about the brand. To think that your family hauler or car you drive to the country club in had some of that same DNA. They need to put out commercials again for the Viper. Unapologetic, Viper style commercials. Remember the ones that used he punched up version if "magic carpet ride" or my personal favorite, "the lap dance commercial."? They were great. I ws out at lunch with the Gaf the other day and someone I did t know, just another patron, inside said to me "I walked by your Viper and it growled at me." That's what I mean by people being excited about these cars. Give me more to be excited about. I was not brought up a dodge guy. My dad liked Camaros and my mom liked Cadillacs. We had 2 matching Fleetwood broughams at one time. But when the Viper came out I was baptized a mopar man. Or boy as it were. I was 12/13 in 92. I made a bookmark of a picture of it. Then, when I was 16, I got a dodge pickup. Since then, I am 5 dodges later down the line. That's the effect halo cars have. And had I never been able to afford my Vipers, I would have still been buying my dodge pickups. That's what halo cars do.

Trying to make the Viper all "porsche-ey" to try and steal their buyers is lIke the packers playing finesse football. It just doesn't fit. Stick to what the Viper is and the Viper people will keep buying it. But you have to let the genera public know it's out there. I have had people call me a liar and say I ddint know what I ak talking about and that the Viper is no longer made. Heck...just remake the lap dance ad and I bet they sell 30 Vipers that month because of it.

Rapidrezults

10-10-2015, 02:35 PM

I don't think it's the end of the Viper...I just think it's the end of the Viper as we know it. All indications point to this. Dink Winkles moving on to Arrow....Ralph posting emotional clips like this: https://instagram.com/p/5fWoiAo3Lb/?taken-by=ralphgilles. It's been 15 years since they fired this up, and they pick a time when people are in retirement and Winkles has moved on. Hmmm... Could this be an end to a great American icon, the Viper V10? They went all out with the ACR Extreme to end the 5 generations with a bang. I hope this is all just a bad dream, but it most likely isn't. The one thing I can hope for is that the ACR will hold its value once they cease to exist and maybe people will finally realize just how special these cars are/were. I think the platform going out with a big record breaking bang will give Dodge the halo effect they want until the next generation is conceptualized. Maybe 2-4 years?

Then again, I could play devils advocate to indicate why this is not the end. Lol. Let's enjoy these things while we can! YOLO...

ViperRT98

10-10-2015, 04:32 PM

The problem for the Viper is everyone believes this car is uncontrollable... People hear that this car will kill them taking curves... GM has done a wonderful job with the Corvette, and it is both stylish and has good performance. It is one of the best bang for buck cars you can buy.

However the Viper was never supposed to compare to the Corvette. The Viper was never intended to be a comfortable luxurious sports car. Its original design was to be a roadster the modern day AC Cobra.

However Dodge hasn't really tried to push the Viper and market the vehicle in away that will capture the hearts and money of the potential buyers.

Instead they come out with the Hellcat....

Vprbite

10-10-2015, 06:29 PM

^^^^^after my accident someone said "that car is not known for its handling." Strange considering I handled it pretty damn well to avoid that minivan. That is easily one of the largest misconceptions about these cars. That the car does not want to stay on the road. It does. It's just that cars with similar HP dont get driven at all or hard and pull the power from you with the computer. I was obviously in a terrible wreck in one of ese cars but it was the fact that the car did exactly what I wanted it to that allowed me to avoid hitting that minivan.

I think a lot of us like the reputation of the car as a bit of a handful. Either way, a commercial during a football game wouldn't hurt. No reason to advertise the hellcat when you can't deliver all the ones purchased anyway.

Camfab

10-10-2015, 06:32 PM

They came out with the Hellcat and it's not only selling like hot cakes, but it's boosting Challenger sales.

Drummerviper

10-10-2015, 07:59 PM

Hate to say, but if it's not the end, it should be. There really hasn't been an original idea since 96. And, this is coming from someone who had 5 post 96 cars.

If you are going to be the over the top, wild design American exotic you have to bring it. For whatever reason, they didn't and ultimately they were on a par with Vette and, got whipped by Vette. Folks lost interest. I hate it. I hope they take time off, and bring a true exotic to the table.

Coloviper

10-10-2015, 08:22 PM

If they intend to pussy it up too much, kill the name and come out with another name/model to build on. Who knows, that ME-12 could be in the works but a new ME-8S to compete with Ford. New Ford GT came out of nowhere and Dosge could be doing the same thing. Just think if they did but a Hellcat in it to capture the V8 crowd Ford turned the middle finger to with the V6. Maybe Dodge wants to highlight their own V6 Tigershark.

Camfab

10-11-2015, 01:43 PM

Yes I love the looks and Tech of the new Ford GT, but and this is a big BUTT, I'll never get past the V-6. I cant stand the McLaren either, ugly and a V-6. The new ACR is just awesome and I wish I could get one, but I just can't go there at this point. Either way, with what Dodge has been offering up lately, I'm sure the future is bright.

BrassMonkey ACR E

10-11-2015, 09:46 PM

Coming soon a "ELECTRIC POWERED VIPER" or a "HYBRID"

VENMPWR

10-12-2015, 04:57 PM

I was at the plant last week they are only making 3 cars per day. They cannot operate a factory that only makes 3 cars per day and maintain a profit.

https://youtu.be/fKBRtdp2e98

Canuck

10-13-2015, 02:11 AM

Predictions:

2017 is 25 years since 1992. Have a few silver anniversary editions sometime.

Model year 2018 (or a gap year then a 2019 start) is something different. Either a Gen 6 Viper, or car gets a new name. I wouldn't recommend Stealth coming back anytime soon.
It would seem more logical to keep the Viper name, since more street cred for that Gen 6, as the car becomes wimpier, than to start with a new name that is new and wimpy. Mustang had its four banger Mustang IIs for a while in the oil crisis era, but the model survived to see it rise again.

The replacement car is likely to get a smaller displacement powerplant, with some supercharging/twin turbo, or less likely, electric boost. As wisely mentioned above, this would be the Ford GT approach. It would make sense to have a souped up version of an exact engine that you can get in other entry level Dodges. If doing a halo car, might as well halo the engine, not just the brand on the front of the car, so that more loss-leading gets made up somewhere.

Automatic transmission with paddle shift override. Starting a new model in 2018 (and planning on 5 years of the car) there is going to have even less-than-there-are-now new customers that are able to drive a standard. Plus there is checkbox marketing vs other brands re: speed times, and computers just shift faster than most regular joe, non-racing humans can. The paddle shift lets people have some sort of interaction, anyways. If the engine changes to something in the more entry-level Dodge stable, then those engines are likely able to tolerate getting mated to an automatic, since those engines are for the masses.

It has a convertible top, or some sort of partial removable hartop section anyways.

At least recognizable vestige of clownshoe design, big scoop behind the front wheel, sidepipes. It is profoundly difficult to have a car design motif that isn't just another jellybean. Viper has its clownshoe profile, Mclarlen has its star-trek logo for headlights, Bugatti has the horseshoe grills, etc. Polarizing to some, but at least it is recognizable.

Priced below $100,000 in current dollars.

Still 2 seats.

If doing such a radical reboot, changing engine and transmission, it really becomes a fairly rigorous overhaul. May be built at Connor Avenue, or may not. I like Connor--I think a bespoke facility where people make things by hand is positive feature as more people in the future think about where things come from, and which families they are supporting.

Sybil TF

10-13-2015, 06:46 AM

I honestly don't think the Viper is even noticible as far as cafe standards go. It's such a drop in the bucket, it doesn't matter what it gets mpg.

Is there a gas guzzlers tax on these new?

Space Truckin

10-13-2015, 07:46 AM

Is there a gas guzzlers tax on these new?

I believe gas guzzler tax is about $2100 +/-......

VIPER LP

10-13-2015, 08:18 AM

$2100 is what I was charged for guzzler tax on my 2016 Viper ACR...

FrankBarba

10-13-2015, 01:12 PM

Here is your Dodge Viper Replacement http://fortune.com/2015/10/12/fiat-ferrari-ipo/

Sybil TF

10-13-2015, 03:30 PM

I hate our government. America is no longer the land of the free. :mad:It's getting scary to say the least...

Vprbite

10-13-2015, 08:51 PM

Is there a gas guzzlers tax on these new?

Yes. But it doesn't affect the avg mpg across all the cars sold cause there are so few.

vipertank

10-13-2015, 09:32 PM

Coming soon a "ELECTRIC POWERED VIPER" or a "HYBRID"

I've given it some thought. The V-10 is awesome, no FI, gasoline powered. One of if not the only car you can get in standard only. But using gasoline/oil may not be possible forever. If the Viper loses its V10 I'd be reluctant to call it a Viper...but since a tesla is FASTER 0-60 that is saying something...and it is saying it very loud (quietly actually...). The Viper is a car meant to crush the competition, and if an electric is getting that done than its getting it done. Simple as that. I can see a successor to the Viper once new cars are all electric, I dunno, call it a Python or something.

That being said, I hope that day is long in the future, there is nothing I enjoy more than hearing the drone of my V10 change notes when I nail a shift in a turn (dropping into 3rd on some back road twists is particularly awesome), and the popping sound of unburned fuel in the exhaust all while driving a car with few bells and whistles and driver aides; it's a point of pride. I hope they don't change the uniqueness of the Viper, but perhaps to keep it alive longer it has to evolve a bit (an AT option, but never getting rid of standard as long as it's gas powered?)

In the meantime, I'm in no rush to sell mine...and I want another in the future (hopefully a gen V to add to this one, not replace it should I be so fortunate). I figure in another 20 years will be able to afford a gen V, at which point my gen 2 will be 40 years old! Lol. Long Live Viper!

SlateEd

10-14-2015, 06:12 AM

... My dad liked Camaros and my mom liked Cadillacs. We had 2 matching Fleetwood broughams at one time. But when the Viper came out I was baptized a mopar man. Or boy as it were. I was 12/13 in 92. I made a bookmark of a picture of it. Then, when I was 16, I got a dodge pickup. Since then, I am 5 dodges later down the line. That's the effect halo cars have. ...

Really similar story here (and we're about the same age) My Dad is a '49-51 Mercury fanatic, with a '68 Camaro in the garage too. My first car was a '66 big block Pontiac (in 1996 haha)...

Then one of Dad's friends took me for a ride in his 1994 Viper, and that was it.. created an impression that has lasted 18 years already! I have the Viper, and convinced my wife to buy an SRT Jeep, which she LOVES! She's talking about getting a hellcat jeep, even though we could probably get an E63 Wagon for what it's likely to cost. I convinced my dad to buy a Dodge Ram truck. I'm anxiously awaiting the new SRT-4 for a new daily driver... as much as I want a Focus RS, I won't let myself even look at it until I see the Dart SRT-4.

We should assemble a bunch of stories like these for the marketing people to consider...

swexlin

10-14-2015, 06:18 AM

Really similar story here (and we're about the same age) My Dad is a '49-51 Mercury fanatic, with a '68 Camaro in the garage too. My first car was a '66 big block Pontiac (in 1996 haha)...

Then one of Dad's friends took me for a ride in his 1994 Viper, and that was it.. created an impression that has lasted 18 years already! I have the Viper, and convinced my wife to buy an SRT Jeep, which she LOVES! She's talking about getting a hellcat jeep, even though we could probably get an E63 Wagon for what it's likely to cost. I convinced my dad to buy a Dodge Ram truck. I'm anxiously awaiting the new SRT-4 for a new daily driver... as much as I want a Focus RS, I won't let myself even look at it until I see the Dart SRT-4.

We should assemble a bunch of stories like these for the marketing people to consider...

I love my current Dart 1.4L/6-speed combo as my DD. But I can see replacing it with the SRT4 if and when it ever makes an appearance.

SlateEd

10-14-2015, 06:20 AM

Predictions:

or less likely, electric boost.

Ralph publicly mentioned that he was looking into this in 2013. Don't know if it's still something they're looking at, but certainly the 'working man's P1' would be an interesting development. Not a Viper, but really interesting.

ref: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EantmmF2Mao 4:10 into the video

Atari_Prime

10-17-2015, 04:42 PM

I was at the plant last week they are only making 3 cars per day. They cannot operate a factory that only makes 3 cars per day and maintain a profit.

Unless I am mistaken, Lamborghini does it, Ferrari does it, Maserati does it. Many exotic car manufactures live on this model, granted they charge a bit more for the car but I would contend that Viper has never been a sales piece for Dodge or else they would not have made it to begin with. Sports cars don't make money in general, they are figureheads, mascots, objects designed to bring people onto the car lot and hope and believe that the base model that they're buying has a few pieces of the exotic car they want and maybe even dream a little bit that someday they will upgrade to that dream car. Depending on who you ask some will say Corvette has never made Chevrolet one penny. But through being the symbol of Chevrolet it's carries a lot of weight. Viper is this for Dodge, a symbol of excess and what Dodge can build. It's what you really want but settle on a Charger instead because you have a family and the Viper just isn't practical. And the more unattainable it is the better for the brand it is. Because the less people that have it the more it remains a dream. And then you think about it and then you think about that particular brand and you continue to buy their cars.

Russ Oasis

10-17-2015, 10:00 PM

Everything I hear indicates that 2017 is the last year. That said, if they sell a boat-load of ACR's and ACR Extremes, it might prove what I have always been saying, and that is that the Viper audience is looking for extreme performance and not leather seats and cup holders. If they sold 100 ACR's a month for the next year, perhaps that would cause them to take a second look at the Viper program. Chrysler, we love the car and a lot of us are racing the Viper (and winning against Corvettes, Porsches, and Ferraris), throw us a life line.....please. The Viper is a street legal race car, not a street car that's also good on the track.

SA Heat

10-18-2015, 10:17 AM

New Vipers have blue collar appeal for white collar money. That's not to say it doesn't have fans who can afford it, but we are few. Most people who have ~$100K+ to spend on a performance car won't think "Dodge" first. Those people think Porsche/AMG/Aston/etc. first. The Viper is and always has been an over-the-top niche car with limited appeal. It's super rare and gets a lot of attention on the road and at gas pumps, but that doesn't mean that everyone who can afford one wants one in their garage. That may hurt some feelings on this forum, but it's the truth.

Camfab

10-18-2015, 03:07 PM