Who's next for Arrow Heads & Cam

[KB Viper]

after the first Tomball and Woodhouse install i haven't seen much popping on the forums about it who's next with heads and cam. i'd like to start a thread with videos of all the different exhaust combos. so far Texas Tonka has the corsa no cats which is my fave, then Andy has the ARH up roar no cats and the build Woodhouse had was done with full Belanger (not sure if he had cats). I'd like to hear a clip with stock mufflers and all the different muffler combos with cats to compare. Please post whatcha got!

[Jack B]

Mark J posted an exhaust clip on his Facebook page, I think it was car #2 or 3.



after the first Tomball and Woodhouse install i haven't seen much popping on the forums about it who's next with heads and cam. i'd like to start a thread with videos of all the different exhaust combos. so far Texas Tonka has the corsa no cats which is my fav, then Andy has the ARH up roar no cats and the build Woodhouse had was done with full Belanger (not sure if he had cats). I'd like to hear a clip with stock mufflers and all the different muffler combos with cats to compare. Please post whatcha got!

[FLATOUT]

We just got our next three kits Friday starting two cars on Monday.

[VIPEREPIV]

Thinkin about it... got the cash in hand. However, kinda scared to ship my car.

[NoMorZR1]

My car was #1 at Woodhouse for the Stage 2 install including Belanger full exhaust with cats. I've had it for 2 days now and it rocks ! I'm trying to stay under 4k rpms until 500 miles, and then I'll cut loose a bit. I gained 70rwhp over stock, and the driveability of this package is superb. If shipping your car is holding you back, you should know that Woodhouse can arrange a single car enclosed trailer for you. Definitely, first class all the way. Bill and Mark were excellent to work with.

[sadil]

Sombody upload those videos!!! Only have seen the orange TA so far.

[Simms]

I'm going for Dynamic suspension first.

[DreadLox]

I'd do the kit in a heartbeat if I ended up selling my GenIV, for the new ACR.... But I want to wait for Stage 3 to come out and hear they will be different, and that I should just wait for Stage 3. FLATOUT if you hear they need a mule car for the stage 3 let me know lol, my car and I are willing. Just need to figure out whether to go with a stage 3 GenIV or GenV

[repiV]

Isn't the price way too high for only 70 hp??

[NoMorZR1]

My exhaust videos can be seen on the "Woodhouse Motorsports " page. You don't have to sign on to Facebook, just do a Google search. IMO, the Belanger exhaust is not quite as "raspy" or "choppy" like the ARH or Corsa setup. It's still plenty loud and mean, as my neighbors are already attesting to ! repiV, it's 100 hp at the crank or 70rwhp.

[repiV]

[QUOTE= repiV, it's 100 hp at the crank or 70rwhp.[/QUOTE]

Oh yea...read that wrong sorry. Still seems like a lot of $$ for the gain you get.

[Steve M]

My exhaust videos can be seen on the "Woodhouse Motorsports " page. You don't have to sign on to Facebook, just do a Google search. IMO, the Belanger exhaust is not quite as "raspy" or "choppy" like the ARH or Corsa setup. It's still plenty loud and mean, as my neighbors are already attesting to ! repiV, it's 100 hp at the crank or 70rwhp.

Did you actually do a before/after dyno, or is that a guesstimate?

[NoMorZR1]

It's all relative. I don't count pennies when it comes to cars. There is a certain "rush" I was hoping for when I ordered this Viper, instead of a Z06 or a GT2, and this car has delivered. I do plan on moving forward with Stage 3 when it's available . My before & after numbers were 517/466, and 590/538, that's at the rear wheel, using whichever dyno Woodhouse uses.

[KB Viper]

My exhaust videos can be seen on the "Woodhouse Motorsports " page. You don't have to sign on to Facebook, just do a Google search. IMO, the Belanger exhaust is not quite as "raspy" or "choppy" like the ARH or Corsa setup. It's still plenty loud and mean, as my neighbors are already attesting to ! repiV, it's 100 hp at the crank or 70rwhp.

Are you running cats?

[FLATOUT]

Isn't the price way too high for only 70 hp??

The two ViperExchange test cars gained 110rwhp and 95rwhp respectively. We have not dyno'd Kurt's car yet.

[NoMorZR1]

Yes, it is the full Belanger setup with cats.

[FLATOUT]

Thinkin about it... got the cash in hand. However, kinda scared to ship my car.

We get cars from all over the country all the time. The factory uses Reliable Carriers to ship cars from Detroit to dealers all over the country. No reason to be worried! I'd love to have your car in my shop we added two more builds after our COTA event last weekend.

[pdv25]

I'm sure the heads and cam package is good. I would be all over this if you could use HP tuners. Just my opinion but there is A LOT of HP left on the table, since Arrow has to work in all types of weather conditions.

[GTSilver]

after the first Tomball and Woodhouse install i haven't seen much popping on the forums about it who's next with heads and cam. i'd like to start a thread with videos of all the different exhaust combos. so far Texas Tonka has the corsa no cats which is my fav, then Andy has the ARH up roar no cats and the build Woodhouse had was done with full Belanger (not sure if he had cats). I'd like to hear a clip with stock mufflers and all the different muffler combos with cats to compare. Please post whatcha got!

Andy at Viper Exchange will start working on my car Monday next week. Running Toddy BBG Shorty headers and Corsa exhaust no cats. Will get videos of before and after dyno and idle videos as well.

[TexasTonka]

I may be biased as a Texan but it takes me 3.5-4 hours to drive to Viper Exchange. After the awesome and quick turn around on my heads an cam I would not hesitate shipping my car across country to have the install done there. In fact my #1 Ta2.0 is headed back next week for the Viper Exchange Big brake kit and active suspension package.
No negatives against Woodhouse. They have been the go to dealer for years for aftermarket. But the new kids are Viper Exchange who invested all the R&D money for this awesome GenV stuff. Ben Keating RACES with this cam, come on what an awesome test bed!
Id like to hear other exhaust combos though. Although I am partial to mine...

[Jack B]

I do not mean to be disrespectful, however, you should either offer your solution, or better yet go back over the history of this whole development project.


Oh yea...read that wrong sorry. Still seems like a lot of $$ for the gain you get.

[FLATOUT]

I'm sure the heads and cam package is good. I would be all over this if you could use HP tuners. Just my opinion but there is A LOT of HP left on the table, since Arrow has to work in all types of weather conditions.

This is definitely an OEM style effort that will work anywhere anytime as you mention. Our repeated trips to Pikes Peak from Houston proved just that.

[pdv25]

This is definitely an OEM style effort that will work anywhere anytime as you mention. Our repeated trips to Pikes Peak from Houston proved just that.

I know brother! You know me, I want every bit of HP. I also can't spray a 250 with the arrow lol.

[KB Viper]

I'm sure the heads and cam package is good. I would be all over this if you could use HP tuners. Just my opinion but there is A LOT of HP left on the table, since Arrow has to work in all types of weather conditions.

I think so too. I'm going to get the package and at some point down the road see if a tuner can make it work with hp tuners.

[Murpowa]

I'd do the kit in a heartbeat if I ended up selling my GenIV, for the new ACR.... But I want to wait for Stage 3 to come out and hear they will be different, and that I should just wait for Stage 3. FLATOUT if you hear they need a mule car for the stage 3 let me know lol, my car and I are willing. Just need to figure out whether to go with a stage 3 GenIV or GenV

calling dips!

[FLATOUT]

calling dips!

Haha you two and everyone else :D I can tell you guys I'm staying NA for road racing purposes so we won't be using mine ;) Winkles drives our Gen V at Arrow everyday though so a lot if not all of the stage 3 development will be on that car just like the Heads and Cam Package was. The cam in this package came directly out of Ben's IMSA racecar. Ben has run 9 different cam shafts in his IMSA Viper and the one in the ViperExchange/Arrow Package came directly out of that development process.

[ViperTony]

I've been talking with Mark @ Woodhouse and will do the package when the ACR arrives but that won't be until Jan-Feb, it's going to be a LONG winter.

[SADVIPER]

This is definitely an OEM style effort that will work anywhere anytime as you mention. Our repeated trips to Pikes Peak from Houston proved just that.

I've been wondering since my last road trip from Housten to Pikes Peek in that Chevy Spark lol.. is this trip possible in a Viper? I remember not so many gas stations in the small towns above the mountains somewhere in the outerskirts of Colorado Springs!

Off topic but yeah :p

[Jack B]

and a great spring - good luck with it



I've been talking with Mark @ Woodhouse and will do the package when the ACR arrives but that won't be until Jan-Feb, it's going to be a LONG winter.

[FLATOUT]

I've been wondering since my last road trip from Housten to Pikes Peek in that Chevy Spark lol.. is this trip possible in a Viper? I remember not so many gas stations in the small towns above the mountains somewhere in the outerskirts of Colorado Springs!

Off topic but yeah :p

Yes ViperExchange has done it three times with our Heads and Cam test cars.

[mjorgensen]

As far as the rwhp gains like I have said before, dyno to dyno means nothing, its the gains on "your" dyno. We start with a lower baseline number (baseline every build we do N/A or S/C unless the owner does not want to) so using the calculation to get to the 635-645 factory crank number on the gains number also you end up with a 90-95rwhp gain, same as you will find on any health car and the Arrow Stage2 package. We are 5hp down because we use cats on 99% of the cars we build for multiple reasons. Any new car getting this package will gain 15-25 more rwhp with the accumulation of miles after break in. Parts are parts, no magic bullet here, it's just the execution and how thoroughly you complete the package/install. We are finished with the 2nd package and started on the 3rd new ACR today, so far we have been very happy with all the work Arrow put into building this for you guys, and so are the buyers of MANY new 16' and ACRs that we have coming, very very busy times here and thanks to all of you for trusting us with your new baby's. :-)

[Carbon GTS]

I know brother! You know me, I want every bit of HP. I also can't spray a 250 with the arrow lol.

Andy and I were just talking about this... This is the only thing holding me back. The H&C package is super smooth and Id love to have it but I cant spray. Could you imagine 650rwhp and a 250-300 shot?! Good LAWD that would be the answer.

[pdv25]

Andy and I were just talking about this... This is the only thing holding me back. The H&C package is super smooth and Id love to have it but I cant spray. Could you imagine 650rwhp and a 250-300 shot?! Good LAWD that would be the answer.


I wouldn't doubt it could make close to 700whp on motor, if you could use HP tuners! I've made 623/589 with just bolt-ons.

Would be nice if we had that option to use both arrow and HP tuner. Most people would chose Arrow just because it's more convenient (plug and play). Still make decent power and feel safe it's a Mopar tune. Then there are people like myself, that don't mind going to a dyno and extract every bit of power.

Maybe in the future?

[FLATOUT]

Andy and I were just talking about this... This is the only thing holding me back. The H&C package is super smooth and Id love to have it but I cant spray. Could you imagine 650rwhp and a 250-300 shot?! Good LAWD that would be the answer.

We had a discussion about this yesterday. I wouldn't say that it's off the table.

[XSnake]

If you can throw a huge shot on the X motor & tune/ecu I'm not sure what stopping you from doing it on a H&C with Arrow tune. These guys run a 260 shot iirc on both their X's.

[mjorgensen]

Andy and I were just talking about this... This is the only thing holding me back. The H&C package is super smooth and Id love to have it but I cant spray. Could you imagine 650rwhp and a 250-300 shot?! Good LAWD that would be the answer.

The airflow rational calibration has plenty of room in it to run Nitrous, the issue Arrow has is the fact they do not believe there is enough capacity in the factory fuel pump to do it safely. They are working on a pump that would drop in with no other mods needed (will be part of the S/C package), but nothing is available at this time.

[XSnake]

The airflow rational calibration has plenty of room in it to run Nitrous, the issue Arrow has is the fact they do not believe there is enough capacity in the factory fuel pump to do it safely. They are working on a pump that would drop in with no other mods needed (will be part of the S/C package), but nothing is available at this time.

What pump is in the cell in the X's? I've never looked down into mine. That makes some sense though

[FLATOUT]

Andy and I were just talking about this... This is the only thing holding me back. The H&C package is super smooth and Id love to have it but I cant spray. Could you imagine 650rwhp and a 250-300 shot?! Good LAWD that would be the answer.

I had another discussion with Dick this morning and it's coming :D As already mentioned you're looking at a pump upgrade and lines as well but it is most likely going to happen!

Andy

[F2V]

[QUOTE=TexasTonka;1 <<...Id like to hear other exhaust combos though. Although I am partial to mine...[/QUOTE]>>

Loved your very distinct loping sound at idle, and your tach was reading 1000rpm. Did not hear this loping sound on the Woodhouse video. Wonder why the difference?

[mjorgensen]

What pump is in the cell in the X's? I've never looked down into mine. That makes some sense though

Would likely be just the factory setup Matt.

- - - Updated - - -


>>

Loved your very distinct loping sound at idle, and your tach was reading 1000rpm. Did not hear this loping sound on the Woodhouse video. Wonder why the difference?

Mostly the lack of cats Roy. The Corsa catback with cats also increases the noticeable lope, you can hear it on my FB page on the 2nd car we did. https://www.facebook.com/Woodhouse-Motorsports-Division-167968157736/timeline/

[Jack B]

Why bother with HC:

1. You can get the additional hp with the nitrous.

2. The arrow cam is going to restrict the nitrous hp, you might lose hp.



b
If you can throw a huge shot on the X motor & tune/ecu I'm not sure what stopping you from doing it on a H&C with Arrow tune. These guys run a 260 shot iirc on both their X's.

[Carbon GTS]

I had another discussion with Dick this morning and it's coming :D As already mentioned you're looking at a pump upgrade and lines as well but it is most likely going to happen!

Andy


Thanks bud I appreciate you pushing this for us.

[FLATOUT]

>>

Loved your very distinct loping sound at idle, and your tach was reading 1000rpm. Did not hear this loping sound on the Woodhouse video. Wonder why the difference?

American Racing Headers and Corsa catback. With or without cats the lope is much more noticeable with the Corsa mufflers on the car. We have used several different catbacks on our heads and cam builds at ViperExchange and you'll hear the fixed cam much more with Corsa's. I'm actually debating switching to it on my Heads and Cam 15.

Andy

[Murpowa]

Why bother with HC:

1. You can get the additional hp with the nitrous.

2. The arrow cam is going to restrict the nitrous hp, you might lose hp.



b

I don't understand your argument. Unless you are going to run around with your finger on the nitro button 24/7, you would still benefit from the additional power increase from the H/C with a flick of your foot.

[KB Viper]

Would likely be just the factory setup Matt.

- - - Updated - - -



Mostly the lack of cats Roy. The Corsa catback with cats also increases the noticeable lope, you can hear it on my FB page on the 2nd car we did. https://www.facebook.com/Woodhouse-Motorsports-Division-167968157736/timeline/

Mark will you please send me the link to the video of the h&c with corsa and cats. I couldn't find it on your Facebook page and I'd like to add it to the thread

[KB Viper]

I don't understand your argument. Unless you are going to run around with your finger on the nitro button 24/7, you would still benefit from the additional power increase from the H/C with a flick of your foot.

I agree. I want heads/cam and nitrous. I love the idle of a cammed car and the power of nitrous. I think this is the best of both worlds, you'll have a dominating track car and be able to kick ass in a roll race.

[mjorgensen]

Mark will you please send me the link to the video of the h&c with corsa and cats. I couldn't find it on your Facebook page and I'd like to add it to the thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7sbnhT6Xwc

[Stealth78]

I do not mean to be disrespectful, however, you should either offer your solution, or better yet go back over the history of this whole development project.

I know that you're responding to someone else but with all do respect, I realize car for car can be different but there is a significant difference here. For the price of this kit 110 rwhp is a deal, 95 rwhp is fair, but I have to agree that this kit would not be worth the money for 70 rwhp.... hfc's or not! If I'm missing something here please correct me as I do make mistakes often. :rolleyes:

[Jack B]

This has already been discussed, however:

1. Arrow will never make back the money they have spent in R&D.

2. There is no other NA solution in the near future.

3. The package is as close to oem as it gets. It is street able as oem. The ohio voa was able to drive the arrow mule.

4 The package gets a one year warranty - please give me what warranty your solution has.

5. Probably a more cost effective solution is HPT and headers, however, that is approx 60-70 hp less and will cost approx 4-5k.

6. You are naive in focusing on peak hp, look at % increase from 4000 to 6200 rpm.

Now I want your solution with costs.



I know that you're responding to someone else but with all do respect, I realize car for car can be different but there is a significant difference here. For the price of this kit 110 rwhp is a deal, 95 rwhp is fair, but I have to agree that this kit would not be worth the money for 70 rwhp.... hfc's or not! If I'm missing something here please correct me as I do make mistakes often. :rolleyes:

[NoMorZR1]

The difference in dyno #'s is the issue here. You can't compare the stated gains from VE H & C installs to the #'s Woodhouse found with my car. Different dyno machines and testing criteria can account for the differences. Also, as stated by Mark, once my car has a few break-in miles , I should expect to see another 15 to 20rwhp. That puts me right at 90rwhp gained and I'm happy with that. The car is fast, very smooth without surging in all gears, and has exceptional driveability. It is a well engineered option, and I expect you would be pleased with the result if you decided to proceed with Stage 2.

[Jack B]

Again:

1. Just a guess, the arrow cam will show less hp (nos does not like exh overlap) on nos than the OEM cam. In other words, a 250 shot might not be 250 with the arrow cam.

The increase in intake valve size does not help the nos scheme.

2. You could easily bump the nos another 50-75 hp, be very close to the HC/nos hp and come out $12k ahead

Doesn't that make sense?


I don't understand your argument. Unless you are going to run around with your finger on the nitro button 24/7, you would still benefit from the additional power increase from the H/C with a flick of your foot.

[mjorgensen]

I know that you're responding to someone else but with all do respect, I realize car for car can be different but there is a significant difference here. For the price of this kit 110 rwhp is a deal, 95 rwhp is fair, but I have to agree that this kit would not be worth the money for 70 rwhp.... hfc's or not! If I'm missing something here please correct me as I do make mistakes often. :rolleyes:

I do have access to another dyno I could try about 75 miles away, the shop we use has done cars and then taken them to the other shop just to see and a 600rwhp car on their dyno made north of 700 at the other dyno! I can haul all the cars to the other dyno and then we can have huge numbers to post :-)

[ViperDog]

As far as the rwhp gains like I have said before, dyno to dyno means nothing, its the gains on "your" dyno. We start with a lower baseline number (baseline every build we do N/A or S/C unless the owner does not want to) so using the calculation to get to the 635-645 factory crank number on the gains number also you end up with a 90-95rwhp gain, same as you will find on any health car and the Arrow Stage2 package. We are 5hp down because we use cats on 99% of the cars we build for multiple reasons. Any new car getting this package will gain 15-25 more rwhp with the accumulation of miles after break in. Parts are parts, no magic bullet here, it's just the execution and how thoroughly you complete the package/install. We are finished with the 2nd package and started on the 3rd new ACR today, so far we have been very happy with all the work Arrow put into building this for you guys, and so are the buyers of MANY new 16' and ACRs that we have coming, very very busy times here and thanks to all of you for trusting us with your new baby's. :-)

Mark, what is a "health car" especially a Viper? Are you referring to cars with cats?

[mjorgensen]

Mark, what is a "health car" especially a Viper? Are you referring to cars with cats?

LOL, Healthy (making full power stock)

[DFox]

I keep seeing prices thrown around and mention of core exchanges. What's the price for the stage 2 kit(installed/Not Installed) ?

[FLATOUT]

I keep seeing prices thrown around and mention of core exchanges. What's the price for the stage 2 kit(installed/Not Installed) ?

A hair under $14,000 installed at ViperExchange if you need everything. If you already have full exhaust price will be less. Install is roughly 2k.

[VENOM V]

Guys,

Got a question. Has anyone tried a heads, longtube headers and a tune package, without cam? Not sure if it would be worth it. I see that headers alone are worth about 50 HP / 50 Ft-Lb at the flywheel. Don't know if I want to do a cam. Any dyno results for this combo?

[Jack B]

Headers will give virtually zero without a tune or Arrow pcm.


Guys,

Got a question. Has anyone tried a heads, longtube headers and a tune package, without cam? Not sure if it would be worth it. I see that headers alone are worth about 50 HP / 50 Ft-Lb at the flywheel. Don't know if I want to do a cam. Any dyno results for this combo?

[Stealth78]

I do have access to another dyno I could try about 75 miles away, the shop we use has done cars and then taken them to the other shop just to see and a 600rwhp car on their dyno made north of 700 at the other dyno! I can haul all the cars to the other dyno and then we can have huge numbers to post :-)

I don't care about who has a higher dyno reading and neither do I care what dyno is being used. If dyno "A" has a baseline of 500 and an after H/C of 600, and dyno "B" has a baseline of 525 and an after H/C of 575 there's a problem here if two vehicles had the same mods made and there is that much of a difference between the "improvements"!

[Stealth78]

This has already been discussed, however:

1. Arrow will never make back the money they have spent in R&D.

2. There is no other NA solution in the near future.

3. The package is as close to oem as it gets. It is street able as oem. The ohio voa was able to drive the arrow mule.

4 The package gets a one year warranty - please give me what warranty your solution has.

5. Probably a more cost effective solution is HPT and headers, however, that is approx 60-70 hp less and will cost approx 4-5k.

6. You are naive in focusing on peak hp, look at % increase from 4000 to 6200 rpm.

Now I want your solution with costs.

The one thing about this post that caught my attention is #4. I thought if you had this package installed from the factory that you retained your factory warranty? Is this not true, is it only a one year warranty? If so that sucks for us guys that only drive our cars 3,000-5,000 miles per year.

[Steve M]

The one thing about this post that caught my attention is #4. I thought if you had this package installed from the factory that you retained your factory warranty? Is this not true, is it only a one year warranty? If so that sucks for us guys that only drive our cars 3,000-5,000 miles per year.

From FLATOUT:


Yes Sir, with a 12 Month/12,000 mile warranty from ViperExchange if purchased through us and installed here. Going to be an incredible setup and with the guys from Arrow doing all of the R&D and calibration it's as good as something like this is going to get.

Call Bernie and Courtney and I'll get the heads and cam installed on your new ACR before you take delivery.

...and from Mark Jorgensen, who originally said this:


If the package is installed at one of our dealerships the engine warranty will be honored, there is not an established time/mileage on that finalized though. The rest of the cars drive train could be out though depending on what issue you might have. There are plenty of powerful cars out there now without issues though so I'm not that worried about it.

new redline is 6600

...and later clarified with this:


Hi Jerry,

The parts for the package are $10,991, that price is set for all 3 dealers, if it is an over the counter sale there will be a $2000 core charge for the stock parts. Arrow has not given me an exact number for this on a already driven vehicle, but when we do new Vipers they get all the take off parts back. So if you buy the kit and keep all the stock parts there could be anywhere from $2K -$3k in core charges.

Timeline? Parts have been delayed many times because of the cam core supplier so I have stopped dumping gas on myself lol, I hope the kits are ready to ship soon, lots of cars and people in line and they have been for a long time now.

You can install the kit on your own or have your Tech do it, but there is no implied warranty on anything unless it is installed at 1 of the 3 Arrow authorized dealers like Woodhouse, then you will get a 12/12 warranty.

12/12 warranty is as good as you'll get, and I'll guarantee you the rest of your factory powertrain warranty would be voided. Also, don't forget that you'd never be able to simply swap back the stock PCM if you needed to pass a plug-in emissions test. I know that doesn't affect everyone, but there are a few folks that have to deal with emissions testing.

This mod isn't for everyone, but I will say that even a 12/12 warranty is pretty much unheard of when it comes to doing heads/cam on any car. Most times, it is all on the buyer once you start modding to that level.

[KB Viper]

This has already been discussed, however:

1. Arrow will never make back the money they have spent in R&D.

2. There is no other NA solution in the near future.

3. The package is as close to oem as it gets. It is street able as oem. The ohio voa was able to drive the arrow mule.

4 The package gets a one year warranty - please give me what warranty your solution has.

5. Probably a more cost effective solution is HPT and headers, however, that is approx 60-70 hp less and will cost approx 4-5k.

6. You are naive in focusing on peak hp, look at % increase from 4000 to 6200 rpm.

Now I want your solution with costs.

i usually agree with your out look but your #1 doesn't make sense to me. how do you know arrow won't make their money back? i'm sure they have a certain number of kits to sell before they break even and from what Mark and Andy say they have huge back logs of clients waiting for this package so it can't be far off and i'm sure the Virgina dealer will sell some too. then take into consideration the arrow mule was donated be VE, and that cam specs came out of the VE race car how will they not make money selling kits to us for 10,900 when taking a core charge of 2k or your parts. that tells me that the parts cost them in the ball park of 3ishk and they then sell them to the 3 authorized dealers at a mark up then we pay a mark up to the dealer. not to mention i bet the majority of this R&D will go into the gen IV kit. the one thing I've learned as everyone in the auto/performance biz makes money or they don't take on projects.

[FLATOUT]

I just wrote an article for Viper Mag that goes over a lot of the development process with ViperExchange and Arrow. It highlights our racing program and it's tie in to this package, and all of the subsequent development ViperExchange did with Arrow to bring the package to market. I will say that the margins are not astronomical even though most won't believe me. We did everything we could to keep costs down for the consumer and still make it worth our time as well.

As for dyno's people get so hung up on numbers from one dyno to the next. Unless you are on the same dyno comparing numbers is WORTHLESS. This package on all of the dynos they have been on have consistently proven to make 40-50rwhp over a Bolton on stage 1 type of build. People tend to compare the highest Bolton dyno they have ever seen to the lowest heads and cam dyno they have seen to justify the spend. That's not an accurate comparison for either build.

Stage 1 builds on gen V's typically gain from 35-50rwhp over stock

Stage 2 builds on Gen V's typically gain 75-100rwhp over stock depending on supporting smaller mods.

[Chipster]

Just curious, what's the Virginia dealer? They're an authorized installer?

[J TNT]

And if you add in Gen 3 Vipers , the pay back will be enhanced again . And this is as close to Factory as one could hope for at these power levels !

i usually agree with your out look but your #1 doesn't make sense to me. how do you know arrow won't make their money back? i'm sure they have a certain number of kits to sell before they break even and from what Mark and Andy say they have huge back logs of clients waiting for this package so it can't be far off and i'm sure the Virgina dealer will sell some too. then take into consideration the arrow mule was donated be VE, and that cam specs came out of the VE race car how will they not make money selling kits to us for 10,900 when taking a core charge of 2k or your parts. that tells me that the parts cost them in the ball park of 3ishk and they then sell them to the 3 authorized dealers at a mark up then we pay a mark up to the dealer. not to mention i bet the majority of this R&D will go into the gen IV kit. the one thing I've learned as everyone in the auto/performance biz makes money or they don't take on projects.

[Stealth78]

I'm going to say I'm sorry ahead of time because I can only assume I'm going to piss people off by saying this... so I'm sorry! All this hype about how affordable this is because of the warranty suddenly seems like a bunch of crap to me. Reason 1. I put 2,500 miles on my car last year, that's a sh!tload of money for a 2,500 mile warranty! 2. There have been way too many of these cars having catastrophic engine failures for me to feel comfortable. Could you imagine grenading your engine in month 13 with 2,500 miles on it after you just put a $14,000 upgrade on your $100,000 car and no warranty to cover any of it!?!?!? EEEeeek!

[Voice of Reason]

I'll wait and do this mod in year 6.9, right before my 7 year extended warranty runs out. That way I end up getting an 8 year engine warranty and some extra power with it. :)

[Jack B]

Life rewards those who take chances. Live in the slow lane and life passes you by - like you I am saying sorry also.



I'm going to say I'm sorry ahead of time because I can only assume I'm going to piss people off by saying this... so I'm sorry! All this hype about how affordable this is because of the warranty suddenly seems like a bunch of crap to me. Reason 1. I put 2,500 miles on my car last year, that's a sh!tload of money for a 2,500 mile warranty! 2. There have been way too many of these cars having catastrophic engine failures for me to feel comfortable. Could you imagine grenading your engine in month 13 with 2,500 miles on it after you just put a $14,000 upgrade on your $100,000 car and no warranty to cover any of it!?!?!? EEEeeek!

[Vprbite]

Life also smacked a professional skydiver into a tree the other day. He was taking chances. And he certainly wasn't rewarded for it.

Nothing to do with your cars, but here may be a few holes in your theory.

[Jack B]

On the other hand he probably lived life to the fullest, better to have loved, then, afraid to love




Life also smacked a professional skydiver into a tree the other day. He was taking chances. And he certainly wasn't rewarded for it.

Nothing to do with your cars, but here may be a few holes in your theory.

[XSnake]

I'm going to say I'm sorry ahead of time because I can only assume I'm going to piss people off by saying this... so I'm sorry! All this hype about how affordable this is because of the warranty suddenly seems like a bunch of crap to me. Reason 1. I put 2,500 miles on my car last year, that's a sh!tload of money for a 2,500 mile warranty! 2. There have been way too many of these cars having catastrophic engine failures for me to feel comfortable. Could you imagine grenading your engine in month 13 with 2,500 miles on it after you just put a $14,000 upgrade on your $100,000 car and no warranty to cover any of it!?!?!? EEEeeek!
How many of the failed engines lasted a year or 2,500 miles?

[Jack B]

A better question is, what is an accurate count of failures that are unrelated to low oil.

As much as we all feel for anyone with a major failure due to low oil, those owners have to take some responsibility for the failure.

To make sense of the issue you have to separate the two failure modes.


How many of the failed engines lasted a year or 2,500 miles?

[XSnake]

A better question is, what is an accurate count of failures that are unrelated to low oil.

As much as we all feel for anyone with a major failure due to low oil, those owners have to take some responsibility for the failure.
I don't disagree. He's just bitching about warranty length so I was addressing just addressing that aspect of the failures.

[FLATOUT]

I can tell you I paid retail for my package same as our customers do and it's the best money I have ever spent on any of my Vipers. 6,000 miles into it now and still smile ear to ear every time I drive it. I'd happily do it all over again if I had to.

[Voice of Reason]

A better question is, what is an accurate count of failures that are unrelated to low oil.

As much as we all feel for anyone with a major failure due to low oil, those owners have to take some responsibility for the failure.

To make sense of the issue you have to separate the two failure modes.

I'll take a 5% ownership then of my failure. 5 qts in 3,700 miles is a failure of the engine, noticing the consumption and filling would have just prolonged when it needed replaced. If that kind of consumption were the norm in every other car on the road highways would be filled with knocking cars. No one checks oil regularly. This isn't 1930 or an engine assembled in my neighbors garage. There shouldn't be catastrophic consumption like this. Period.

[Stealth78]

I don't disagree. He's just bitching about warranty length so I was addressing just addressing that aspect of the failures.

Look Pal, it's not bitching it's being practical and addressing valid points. I'm sorry I'm not somebody who shits money. To be honest part of my career is to review and advise people about their financial situations, so I'm a bit prone to be a financial conservative. If you are financially stable/blessed enough that you can buy a 6 figure car and not give a care in the world if you have a warranty, good for you. When you have a $100,000 car with a 5 year/ 60K mile warranty and you do a "factory" mod that's $14,000 it shouldn't simultaneously cut your warranty to 1/5 of what it was! My point is if you could get this package and it retained the original warranty then I could see everyone's point of being worth the money because of the warranty. I'm sorry you have to put yourself on a pedestal when surrounded by us mere peasants that have to be responsible with our finances.

[VENOM V]

Look Pal, it's not bitching it's being practical and addressing valid points. I'm sorry I'm not somebody who shits money. To be honest part of my career is to review and advise people about their financial situations, so I'm a bit prone to be a financial conservative. If you are financially stable/blessed enough that you can buy a 6 figure car and not give a care in the world if you have a warranty, good for you. When you have a $100,000 car with a 5 year/ 60K mile warranty and you do a "factory" mod that's $14,000 it shouldn't simultaneously cut your warranty to 1/5 of what it was! My point is if you could get this package and it retained the original warranty then I could see everyone's point of being worth the money because of the warranty. I'm sorry you have to put yourself on a pedestal when surrounded by us mere peasants that have to be responsible with our finances.

All due respect, you need to lighten up. My guess is that you haven't modded enough engines to have enough perspective to know what a great deal this is. And there is no such thing as an aftermarket monster power upgrade of this class that doesn't void a manufacturer's warranty, so having these dealers honor a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty is just exceptional. Engines like this are under a lot more stress, they are designed to give the buyer more power at the trade off of longevity. That's the reality. This is not an engine that will last 200,000 miles like those in standard passenger cars.

And just because it doesn't fit in your budget doesn't mean it's a bad deal, it just means that it doesn't make sense for you. It may make sense for me, or the other literally dozens of guys that are anxiously in line for this kickass upgrade at Woodhouse and Viper Exchange.

[TexasTonka]

Made sense for me! Been enjoying the hell out of my car. Love the way the Heads and cam transformed it!

[VENOM V]

Made sense for me! Been enjoying the hell out of my car. Love the way the Heads and cam transformed it!

Kurt, have you tracked it yet with the upgrade? I am so tempted to take the plunge on my ACR.

[XSnake]

Look Pal, it's not bitching it's being practical and addressing valid points. I'm sorry I'm not somebody who shits money. To be honest part of my career is to review and advise people about their financial situations, so I'm a bit prone to be a financial conservative. If you are financially stable/blessed enough that you can buy a 6 figure car and not give a care in the world if you have a warranty, good for you. When you have a $100,000 car with a 5 year/ 60K mile warranty and you do a "factory" mod that's $14,000 it shouldn't simultaneously cut your warranty to 1/5 of what it was! My point is if you could get this package and it retained the original warranty then I could see everyone's point of being worth the money because of the warranty. I'm sorry you have to put yourself on a pedestal when surrounded by us mere peasants that have to be responsible with our finances.

I asked a simple question. You wanna deflect thats fine.

[ACR Steve]

Stealth- "factory mod "

I think you are missing the point. Its NOT a FACTORY mod. Its a dealer installed mod. You cant order a new Viper with this installed from the factory. The fact that Arrow and our 2 top dealers are giving a 1 year warranty is amazing . I don't disagree that I would be more prone to have the mod done with a longer matching warranty but that would be dreaming. I think 12 months is a whole lot better then none or the typical 30-90 days that you see on most aftermarket mods.

[TexasTonka]

Kurt, have you tracked it yet with the upgrade? I am so tempted to take the plunge on my ACR.

Have not yet. Should be doing another track day at COTA November 1 and we can see how they work along with the Viper Exchange tractive suspension upgrade and Viper Exchange big brake kit. Should be a beast out on COTA, may need to sell my '09 ACR!

[VENOM V]

Have not yet. Should be doing another track day at COTA November 1 and we can see how they work along with the Viper Exchange tractive suspension upgrade and Viper Exchange big brake kit. Should be a beast out on COTA, may need to sell my '09 ACR!

Terrific, keep me posted! I'm also interested in what the upgrade does to water and oil temps over a track session. When I dropped a 600 HP stroker into my Camaro, temps went through the roof and I had to add dual oil coolers.

[Stealth78]

All due respect, you need to lighten up. My guess is that you haven't modded enough engines to have enough perspective to know what a great deal this is. And there is no such thing as an aftermarket monster power upgrade of this class that doesn't void a manufacturer's warranty, so having these dealers honor a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty is just exceptional. Engines like this are under a lot more stress, they are designed to give the buyer more power at the trade off of longevity. That's the reality. This is not an engine that will last 200,000 miles like those in standard passenger cars.

And just because it doesn't fit in your budget doesn't mean it's a bad deal, it just means that it doesn't make sense for you. It may make sense for me, or the other literally dozens of guys that are anxiously in line for this kickass upgrade at Woodhouse and Viper Exchange.

I know bud... I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with anyone. Although I know a few guys that have around 150,000 miles on Gen3 engines that have been feeding them nitrous for years. And I know of one guy that actually broke 200,000 miles over on the VTCOA. When we are comparing that to a Gen5 engine that is far superior and has forged internals I don't think it is impossible to get high mileage out of one of these engines.

[Jack B]

That was well done!



All due respect, you need to lighten up. My guess is that you haven't modded enough engines to have enough perspective to know what a great deal this is. And there is no such thing as an aftermarket monster power upgrade of this class that doesn't void a manufacturer's warranty, so having these dealers honor a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty is just exceptional. Engines like this are under a lot more stress, they are designed to give the buyer more power at the trade off of longevity. That's the reality. This is not an engine that will last 200,000 miles like those in standard passenger cars.

And just because it doesn't fit in your budget doesn't mean it's a bad deal, it just means that it doesn't make sense for you. It may make sense for me, or the other literally dozens of guys that are anxiously in line for this kickass upgrade at Woodhouse and Viper Exchange.

[FLATOUT]

Terrific, keep me posted! I'm also interested in what the upgrade does to water and oil temps over a track session. When I dropped a 600 HP stroker into my Camaro, temps went through the roof and I had to add dual oil coolers.

I tracked mine at COTA and my temps were great, no issues at all in the heat of the summer.

[KB Viper]

any updates from any members with this packaage? any new idle or WOT clips to share?

[Jack B]

There are only a couple of cars done and the Texas guys will not race till the DA hits minus 2000 - LOL.

[FLATOUT]

There are only a couple of cars done and the Texas guys will not race till the DA hits minus 2000 - LOL.

Jack why do you keep saying this? I have road raced my car plenty this season and I'll be running the 1/4 mile shortly. Have you posted any new drag strip runs lately? I have put over 6,000 miles on my heads and cam car this summer including multiple track days.

We completed another customer car yesterday and will be done with another Monday both customers aren't on the forums. Texas Tonka dropped his off for me today for our Big Brake kit and our Dynamic Suspension package.

[FLATOUT]

any updates from any members with this packaage? any new idle or WOT clips to share?

As I mentioned above I have quite a few cars lined up for builds but only one of them is a forum guy and I know he's doing a build thread. I expect to get him started Monday or Tuesday.

[Jack B]

It was supposed to be in jest.



Jack why do you keep saying this? I have road raced my car plenty this season and I'll be running the 1/4 mile shortly. Have you posted any new drag strip runs lately? I have put over 6,000 miles on my heads and cam car this summer including multiple track days.

We completed another customer car yesterday and will be done with another Monday both customers aren't on the forums. Texas Tonka dropped his off for me today for our Big Brake kit and our Dynamic Suspension package.

[FLATOUT]

It was supposed to be in jest.

Sorry for taking it the wrong way then, I can assure you I can't wait to get to the drag strip.

[Jack B]

Plus I am jealous, but, I am going to the strip tomorrow. Maybe I can break my 10.85. I do feel good about the McLeod Clutch.


Sorry for taking it the wrong way then, I can assure you I can't wait to get to the drag strip.

[pdv25]

Plus I am jealous, but, I am going to the strip tomorrow. Maybe I can break my 10.85. I do feel good about the McLeod Clutch.



I'm sure you will do quite well ;) I expect a new thread from you tomorrow.

[FLATOUT]

Plus I am jealous, but, I am going to the strip tomorrow. Maybe I can break my 10.85. I do feel good about the McLeod Clutch.



I'm looking forward to the upgrade:) Good luck tomorrow!

[mjorgensen]

Finished our 4th starting #5 Monday, The last ACR drove all the way home to Texas in a single stint with our MCS suspension said it was a blast. Can't wait to see what Jack's does at the strip.

[Dusty1]

I bought the initial mule with 2,400 miles on it after Dick Winkles took it to Pikes Peak and back to test out the Arrow Stage II programming. After acquiring the car, two days later I drove it back to Pikes Peak for Bucket List #3. Car has all the toys with the big brake kit and Tractive suspension. Car now has 6,600 miles on it an after initially adding some engine oil has settled in. Drive it to work every day its not raining and had zero problems. It is a much different car than my 13 GTS I traded in for it. The torque curve feels much different and in combo with the suspension it lays down power like no other car I have owned. Sound is the big initial difference I notice the most. Of course the push in the back is what you are paying for but with all the toys on the car the whole performance envelope has been moved outward. Kurt has already added harnesses to his car and I am considering doing that and putting in a Gen IV Autoform roll-bar in the car I took out of my 08 Gen IV homeboy ACRX when I converted it. This car will pin your ears back but still be docile enough to drive everyday. I have observed no overheating sitting in rush hour traffic here in Houston on I10.

I haven't posted on this before because I really didn't want to upset anybody who was waiting on the package to be delivered. By purchasing the VE mule I kind of jumped the line so was waiting on folks to begin getting them. I haven't taken the car to a road course and probably won't until NVE2 at NOLA. Not because it wouldn't be a good car for that, but I have my 08 converted ACRX that is a much safer option. The only other track related experience I have had in the car was the Bucket list #3 autocross which it won. If I can answer any further questions as away!

Richard

[OnceBitten]

Staying on topic and back to the HP gain questions. What does the area under the curve look like? Any noticeable pick ups through the RPM band? Even just a 25hp gain can be fine if you are seeing decent power 1k RPM earlier.

[mjorgensen]

Staying on topic and back to the HP gain questions. What does the area under the curve look like? Any noticeable pick ups through the RPM band? Even just a 25hp gain can be fine if you are seeing decent power 1k RPM earlier.

Significant gains stock to finished H/C

13538

[OnceBitten]

Significant gains stock to finished H/C

13538

That looks like a very fun gain. It must register on the butt dyno quite nicely.

[mjorgensen]

That looks like a very fun gain. It must register on the butt dyno quite nicely.

Yes there is a huge change in how the car feels altogether.

[FLATOUT]

My car was the first ViperExchange test car that we ever did. Car currently has over 6,000 miles on it and has run COTA, autocross, and will hit the 1/4 soon. My build recently dyno'd 661SAE but this was the first dyno after the build that we did.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/372/19502397886_7340ef317b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vHmTrq)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/vHmTrq) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5807/21523815224_f772b0d3d6_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yMZbou)661 Dyno graph (https://flic.kr/p/yMZbou) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

[FLATOUT]

Here's another 2015 GT with the TA 2.0 group idling just after it's first startup. Exhaust is ARH and Corsa. I have a Black TA in the bay next to it ready to fire once I get the ECU in tomorrow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOyWlmTgOxY

[NoMorZR1]

I was one of the first H & C's out of Woodhouse. I don't have a "before" comparison since I had the work done before I took delivery of my car, but it is an excellent upgrade , and I hope to give a bit more feedback once I get the break-in done. Even though I've been keeping it under 4k rpm, the package has excellent manners, and I suspect more than enough power to run with or outrun any car in my region. I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on this if you're on the fence.

[Nambo]

Took the plunge and am having Woodhouse do the H&C package on my ACR. Now the second wait begins!

[Jack B]

You will not be disappointed.


Took the plunge and am having Woodhouse do the H&C package on my ACR. Now the second wait begins!

[Nambo]

You will not be disappointed.

Thanks Jack. I think that you getting it done helped push me off the fence.

[Space Truckin]

Here's another 2015 GT with the TA 2.0 group idling just after it's first startup. Exhaust is ARH and Corsa. I have a Black TA in the bay next to it ready to fire once I get the ECU in tomorrow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOyWlmTgOxY

Sick....:fpopcorn:

[FLATOUT]

Sick....:fpopcorn:

Agree, he came up to ViperExchange yesterday for lunch with the biggest smile on his face i have ever seen him with lol. I took my car and he and his to grab a bite to eat. Nothing like 750+hp NA Vipers cruising up and down the road with stock manners and a ton more hp.

[allans]

Took the plunge and am having Woodhouse do the H&C package on my ACR. Now the second wait begins!

Is your car there now? Which color? Best, Allan

[Nambo]

Is your car there now? Which color? Best, Allan

Allan,

Yes, it is there now. It is the Y'Orange and black one.

JD

[Arizona Vipers]

This package is a steal IMO... This isn't about warranty's or dynos... You have a 640hp factory car...
Your stepping up to 700+ HP with the best effort you are going to get as far as power and reliability go.
You'd need to buy a $500K Aventador to obtain this power level with this sort of reliability.. And the Gen 5 weights 800 lbs less than the Lambo...
If you are questioning warranty issues on this package then it's just not for you. At this power level it gets very HARD and very EXPENSIVE to increase it.
This isn't going from 200hp to 250 with a chip on a Ford Ecoboost......
The Gen 5 is a MAXED OUT ultimate factory performance car, one of the fastest track cars regardless of price.
If you want to increase hp by 10% or more and can get that for what this heads/cam package costs, it's a steal.
I think people forget the extremely low production numbers of our beloved Viper...
It's a MIRACLE and BLESSING that we have great Vendors/Companies like Arrow and Viper Exchange that even bother to spend the time and research to develop something like this for us..
If you want a faster Gen 5, step up, if you don't, then just appreciate those working hard on projects like this...

[J TNT]

Well said ! ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Jack B]

You have to feel the diff in person. The acceleration from 4500 to 6500 feels like a 150 shot was added. The only problem I have had is you now need a sticky tire in first gear. The MT DR fixes that.

[TeamOrangeCrush]

Will be doing the Targa Conversion and the Heads/Cam package at the same time at Prefix once the TA 2.0 gets back from the Gambler 1000 in mid-November!!!! Can't wait till I get it back in January!!!! Let's hope everything turns out the way it supposed to!!!!!!

[allans]

Allan,

Yes, it is there now. It is the Y'Orange and black one.

JD

JD, Great choice - on both counts. Best, Allan

[Trainerdave]

What wheel are you using for your MT's, I was thinking of just buying 2 rear sidewinders and using the nitto 19 inch dr's(it would be pretty stealth if just catching somebody at a light in the dark) but I already have 345 MT 18's left over from my gen 2, and I know the MT will hook better, just by looking at the sidewalls.

[Arizona Vipers]

What wheel are you using for your MT's, I was thinking of just buying 2 rear sidewinders and using the nitto 19 inch dr's(it would be pretty stealth if just catching somebody at a light in the dark) but I already have 345 MT 18's left over from my gen 2, and I know the MT will hook better, just by looking at the sidewalls.

Hey I just did a standing half mile event in my 760 rwhp Ford GT and bought Hoosier A7's in 345-30-19 (An Autocross tire) and the car HOOKED. I was blown away by the traction I had with this tire. It's designed for autocross so doesn't need to get hot to work as intended...

[Jack B]

At first I used 18" G2 wheels with 1" spacers. They were sort of fugly. I bought a set of 18" forgelines from Nineball. I had him try to match the Sidewinders, Most people cannot see a diff from the fronts. I have a set of A7 Hoosiers on another set of Sidewinders, they are great in the corners, but, do not compare to the MT when launching in first gear.



Hey I just did a standing half mile event in my 760 rwhp Ford GT and bought Hoosier A7's in 345-30-19 (An Autocross tire) and the car HOOKED. I was blown away by the traction I had with this tire. It's designed for autocross so doesn't need to get hot to work as intended...

[Jack B]

At first I used 18" G2 wheels with 1" spacers. They were sort of fugly. I bought a set of 18" forgelines from Nineball. I had him try to match the Sidewinders, most people cannot see a diff from the fronts. I have a set of A7 Hoosiers on another set of Sidewinders, they are great in the corners, but, do not compare to the MT when launching in first gear.



Hey I just did a standing half mile event in my 760 rwhp Ford GT and bought Hoosier A7's in 345-30-19 (An Autocross tire) and the car HOOKED. I was blown away by the traction I had with this tire. It's designed for autocross so doesn't need to get hot to work as intended...

[FLATOUT]

What wheel are you using for your MT's, I was thinking of just buying 2 rear sidewinders and using the nitto 19 inch dr's(it would be pretty stealth if just catching somebody at a light in the dark) but I already have 345 MT 18's left over from my gen 2, and I know the MT will hook better, just by looking at the sidewalls.

I'm running a CCW on the rear for my Hoosiers, and R888's on the stockers.

[TexasTonka]

Still love starting this thing up!


https://youtu.be/iINeAtTU6E8

[Space Truckin]

Still love starting this thing up!


https://youtu.be/iINeAtTU6E8

Gotta say BAD ASS!!! :United_States:

[FLATOUT]

Still love starting this thing up!


https://youtu.be/iINeAtTU6E8

I could listen to that all day! Looks great Kurt loved building that car for you.

Andy

[DanH]

Gotta say BAD ASS!!! :United_States:
Couldn't agree more. I'm seriously considering it

[KB Viper]

Couldn't agree more. I'm seriously considering it

anyone with the arrow stage 2 will tell you, the package completely changes the car. you send off your badass viper and you get it's pissed off brother. i've had the package for the last 5k miles and love it.

**spacetruckin--come drive mine with arrow stage 2 and tractive so you can get a fire under your ass to ship that hotrod to Houston!

[FLATOUT]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCaTnl_7-18

Quick video of mine from today's AutoX at Texas A&M, right at 10,000 miles on my build now.

[KB Viper]

Andy--how's the clutch?

[FLATOUT]

Andy--how's the clutch?

Awesome from a roll but having a hard time getting it out of the hole.

[Dfunk]

Great video Andy. I'm very excited about my heads and cam build. Words can't describe the experience of driving or riding in one.

[IHOP]

So I have a question, hopefully soon I will be doing full Belanger headers & exhaust with the Arrow Venom tune. If I were to add the H/C Package would my total HP gain be expected around 90 RWHP? Or are you saying H/C Package alone is an additional 90 HP? I'm sorry for the confusion, hopefully Flatout you can help me with just Approx numbers.

Thank you!

[FLATOUT]

So I have a question, hopefully soon I will be doing full Belanger headers & exhaust with the Arrow Venom tune. If I were to add the H/C Package would my total HP gain be expected around 90 RWHP? Or are you saying H/C Package alone is an additional 90 HP? I'm sorry for the confusion, hopefully Flatout you can help me with just Approx numbers.

Thank you!

Everything together is advertised at a 100hp gain total. So figure about 45rwhp is from Exhaust/ECU and 55rwhp is from the Heads and Cam.

Andy

[donk_316]

Andy,
Need to come up with factory stage II badges "740hp stage II" or something

[mjorgensen]

Andy,
Need to come up with factory stage II badges "740hp stage II" or something

Just get these.

16955

[donk_316]

16956
Just get these.

16955


Whaaaaaat

[mjorgensen]

16956


Whaaaaaat

Have a pair in stock.

[IHOP]

Thank you Andy!

[FLATOUT]

Just get these.

16955

Lol I still can't make myself like those things.

[outnumbered]

This has probably already been mentioned, but if the setup could pass emissions, it would certainly expand the pool of candidates.

[FLATOUT]

Andy,
Need to come up with factory stage II badges "740hp stage II" or something

We spent a good deal of time working on quite a few designs. The GTDII badges I run on my car tie our IMSA program and development of the package to the street car. I can always get a set of those for customers.

Andy

- - - Updated - - -


This has probably already been mentioned, but if the setup could pass emissions, it would certainly expand the pool of candidates.

Mine passed last week.

[FLATOUT]

Thank you Andy!

Anytime.

[outnumbered]

We spent a good deal of time working on quite a few designs. The GTDII badges I run on my car tie our IMSA program and development of the package to the street car. I can always get a set of those for customers.

Andy

- - - Updated - - -



Mine passed last week.

OBD II? (I'm in NC) I think most are under the impression that since the Arrow PCM has to be removed to pass inspection, that the head/cam scenario would be no different.

[FLATOUT]

OBD II? (I'm in NC) I think most are under the impression that since the Arrow PCM has to be removed to pass inspection, that the head/cam scenario would be no different.

It is different and yes they seem to pass.

[Coloviper]

Andy, can you post a scan of what kinds of numbers your car put out in the test and what the test consisted of (tailpipe only, roller while hooked to states computer). Then others can make their own rationale if it will pass in their own state. Many have been down this road only to spend thousands to get back where they started to register. It is a simple request and one that cuts through all the BS to let people make an informed decision on their own. No guarantees because it is not certified but actual numbers speak volumes.

[FLATOUT]

Andy, can you post a scan of what kinds of numbers your car put out in the test and what the test consisted of (tailpipe only, roller while hooked to states computer). Then others can make their own rationale if it will pass in their own state. Many have been down this road only to spend thousands to get back where they started to register. It is a simple request and one that cuts through all the BS to let people make an informed decision on their own. No guarantees because it is not certified but actual numbers speak volumes.

In TX it's only a plug in test, no tailpipe and no rollers so I can't speak to those types of tests.

[acr-c]

My heads and cam GTS is on its way to me out here in CA. I can't wait!!!! I will have to go through SMOG (emissions) testing out here. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

Thanks and gain for everything, Andy!

Christian

[FLATOUT]

My heads and cam GTS is on its way to me out here in CA. I can't wait!!!! I will have to go through SMOG (emissions) testing out here. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

Thanks and gain for everything, Andy!

Christian

Anytime Christian, glad the car is going to a good home. Call me when it lands.

[KB Viper]

We spent a good deal of time working on quite a few designs. The GTDII badges I run on my car tie our IMSA program and development of the package to the street car. I can always get a set of those for customers.

Andy

- - - Updated - - -



Mine passed last week.

Andy--could you please post a pic of the badges for us to see.
Kris

[FLATOUT]

Andy--could you please post a pic of the badges for us to see.
Kris

Here's a couple pics for scale and a gen IV ACR badge also.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1523/26080011103_b108e8dff1_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FJASFR)GTD3 (https://flic.kr/p/FJASFR) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1622/26078042184_3a13cf0cf6_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FJqMoY)GTD2 (https://flic.kr/p/FJqMoY) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1694/26617804521_93095a1732_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gy8cWa)GTD1 (https://flic.kr/p/Gy8cWa) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1459/26080031053_3255b0639e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FJAYBP)2010 ACR Badge (https://flic.kr/p/FJAYBP) by Andrew Wheeler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125600825@N07/), on Flickr

[Stealth]

The cf fuel rail cover for the driver's side may need adjustment for R29--mine did!

[TrackAire]

My heads and cam GTS is on its way to me out here in CA. I can't wait!!!! I will have to go through SMOG (emissions) testing out here. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

Thanks and gain for everything, Andy!

Christian

Are you good for 5 years or do you have to get your car smogged as soon as you get it back?......if you do, that will be a challenge. There are ways around it, but none of them inexpensive.....think "Montana" license plates as your easiest solution.

[DanH]

I'm just not sure if to do it to my 13 srt or wait and get a new 16/17 and start fresh with the right setup. Ocd I guess :lol2:

[DanH]

Andy, do you have the same side pic but with the other rims? Thanks

[FLATOUT]

Andy, do you have the same side pic but with the other rims? Thanks

Dan the Sidewinder 2 or CCW?

[DanH]

CCW Andy. I thought they were forgelines. What tires are you running with either setup? Thanks

[FLATOUT]

CCW Andy. I thought they were forgelines. What tires are you running with either setup? Thanks

Hoosier 18inch 335 out back and and firestone radial up front I believe I will have to look.

[DanH]

Thanks. Picture of the ccw?

[acr-c]

Are you good for 5 years or do you have to get your car smogged as soon as you get it back?......if you do, that will be a challenge. There are ways around it, but none of them inexpensive.....think "Montana" license plates as your easiest solution.

I am the one bringing the car into the state of CA so i have to get a smog done upon arrival. I think the only issue might be with the fixed duration camshaft in place of the VVT...i am not sure if the computer will talk correctly with the state machine.

Chrstian

[Revolution]

Any more info on the stage 3?

[Dfunk]

Any more info on the stage 3?

I was thinking the same thing while driving to work this morning.

[KB Viper]

Hoosier 18inch 335 out back and and firestone radial up front I believe I will have to look.

any i was just watching your record runs and wanted to ask if you have line lock on your viper?

[johniew398]

Woodhouse picked my TA last night and it's in Omaha waiting for some routine maintenance, a couple of recalls and the news heads and cam.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/johniew398/Woodhouse_zpsxiyusriw.png (http://s268.photobucket.com/user/johniew398/media/Woodhouse_zpsxiyusriw.png.html)

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/johniew398/IMG_3866_zpscxhv0j2x.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/user/johniew398/media/IMG_3866_zpscxhv0j2x.jpg.html)

[Ripper]

Very cool!! Car will be a whole different animal next time you slide in behind the wheel.

Keep us all updated

[DanH]

Green with envy. Congratulations!!!!

[DanH]

How far are you from Woodhouse? I'm too lazy to search using your location. Lol

[johniew398]

How far are you from Woodhouse? I'm too lazy to search using your location. Lol

425 miles.

[FLATOUT]

You're going to love it! Aaron from at Nth Moto was down at ViperExchange yesterday with me and had the chance to drive my car and he loved it. Great package for what it is.

Andy

[DanH]

1800 miles for me. Was shipment included on the price? You could pm if you like

[johniew398]

1800 miles for me. Was shipment included on the price? You could pm if you like

Sent you a PM.

[FLATOUT]

any i was just watching your record runs and wanted to ask if you have line lock on your viper?

Hi Kris sorry I missed this. No sir no line lock on the car.

[Nth Moto]

I can now say first hand how awesome this package is. I spent some time with Andy at Viper Exchange this week and got to drive one of their head and cam package cars. It was so much fun, sounds fantastic, and absolutely quality enough that the factory car could have been delivered like this! Anyone can jump in the car and drive it wherever you may please in whatever fashion you want - night out on the town, group cruise, drag strip, or road course.

This package makes the OEM car seem relatively mundane in comparison which is saying a lot for those of you that may feel satisfied with the OEM power levels. I don't think you'll feel satisfied any longer if given the chance to drive one of these package cars!

- Aaron

[johniew398]

I can now say first hand how awesome this package is. I spent some time with Andy at Viper Exchange this week and got to drive one of their head and cam package cars. It was so much fun, sounds fantastic, and absolutely quality enough that the factory car could have been delivered like this! Anyone can jump in the car and drive it wherever you may please in whatever fashion you want - night out on the town, group cruise, drag strip, or road course.

This package makes the OEM car seem relatively mundane in comparison which is saying a lot for those of you that may feel satisfied with the OEM power levels. I don't think you'll feel satisfied any longer if given the chance to drive one of these package cars!

- Aaron

Thanks. I talked to a fellow member who recently had this done to his new ACR. He said the only negative which was minor was a sight surge in 1st and 2nd.

[Nth Moto]

Thanks. I talked to a fellow member who recently had this done to his new ACR. He said the only negative which was minor was a sight surge in 1st and 2nd.

I think a lot of that has to do with driving style too - I for one don't spend much time at light throttle sub 2K RPM's in low gears so I didn't notice it. Typically I would use what throttle is necessary to gain movement then step on the clutch to coast, and that may be a habit developed from a long list of very highly modified cars as driver's, especially those with large cam profiles. Even the best calibrator cannot tune out cam overlap/reversion, all we can do is our best to minimize it. The sound and power will likely overshadow those thoughts in a hurry.

-Aaron

[mblgjr]

So whats with this Stage 3 talk. Lol.

[Stealth78]

Forgive me if there have been any changes to the warranty offered with this package. Last I knew it was 12K miles/12 months, correct? If correct, now with other options coming to the G5 this would be a great time to increase the warranty on this package to 12K miles/36 months! Seeing that there has been so much testing on this and the fact that this is supposed to be very safe, I've never understood why the guys that track the Hell out of their cars and others who drive them as daily drivers get to utilize most if not all of the 12K mile warranty, but yet the guy who takes his car for a cruise occasionally and only puts 1-4K miles on a year doesn't really get the benefits from the warranty.

[FLATOUT]

As of right now this is the only package (H/C) on the market for these cars that offers a warranty at all. Our warranty is backed by our in house warranty company (Apex). I would suggest you get out and enjoy the car :) It's very rare for an after market package no matter how good it is to offer an honest and company backed warranty so I would say a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty for a 750hp NA motor is about as good as it gets!

I can tell you that during my first year I put 10,000 miles on my car with this package and never had to use the warranty once so I guess I got about as much out of the warranty as a guy that never drove his car.

Andy



Forgive me if there have been any changes to the warranty offered with this package. Last I knew it was 12K miles/12 months, correct? If correct, now with other options coming to the G5 this would be a great time to increase the warranty on this package to 12K miles/36 months! Seeing that there has been so much testing on this and the fact that this is supposed to be very safe, I've never understood why the guys that track the Hell out of their cars and others who drive them as daily drivers get to utilize most if not all of the 12K mile warranty, but yet the guy who takes his car for a cruise occasionally and only puts 1-4K miles on a year doesn't really get the benefits from the warranty.

[johniew398]

My TA was finished up with the new heads and cam. Will be delivered back to me from Woodhouse next week.

[FLATOUT]

My TA was finished up with the new heads and cam. Will be delivered back to me from Woodhouse next week.

You're going to LOVE it! We just got done with our 32nd build with another one coming in tomorrow, they are such a blast to drive. The Force1 V10's will be getting the same builds :)