WARNING 2013 Vipers Built Before 08/12/13 - Defroster Issue

[Malu59RT]

If you have an early build vehicle, be weary of the rear window defroster issue. We have had two local cars (both Launch Editions) shatter within days of each other, and both were checked under TSB 23-019-014 and said to be okay. In both cases, the phone slid forward and hit the defroster button unintentionally. It may be a good idea to pull your defroster fuse until a resolution is found, and save yourself the possible paint damage and cuts on your hand. This would only apply to the early build 2013 cars, 2014+ owners don't need to worry apparently.

[swexlin]

Thanks for the tip. In the year I've owned my car, I've never used mine (never had the need to). Don't know if the first owner ever did.

[mjorgensen]

The problem is that some dealers think that just cramming the "tape" they use to fix it even when the gap is clearly to small prevents this from happening. If the gap is to small the tape will do nothing. Dealers probably just don't want to go through the "hassle" of having to replace the glass, we have one in the shop right now getting a new glass, when it's wrong it's wrong...

[viper_eddie]

Thanks for the tip. In the year I've owned my car, I've never used mine (never had the need to). Don't know if the first owner ever did.

If you're feeling adventurous press the button :devilish:

[Malu59RT]

The problem is that some dealers think that just cramming the "tape" they use to fix it even when the gap is clearly to small prevents this from happening. If the gap is to small the tape will do nothing. Dealers probably just don't want to go through the "hassle" of having to replace the glass, we have one in the shop right now getting a new glass, when it's wrong it's wrong...

I know mine used a feeler gauge of 2mm, to verify it met the 1.5mm tolerance, and that still didn't matter.

[rlhay2]

Thankful that my VIN is in the 600's.
Good job sharing the info and looking out for others!

[v10tt]

Which gap are you talking about?, can you post a picture?

[steve911]

This is a know problem on some cars for over a year. Its not only a "gap" issue but an adhesive issue. When the glass was installed the bead of sealant used to adhere the glass to the decklid wasn't thick enough. When the glass was installed, the sealant bead compressed allowing window in a small area to come in contact with the decklid. It is not always the edge of the glass. The 6 that I have seen, all made contact UNDER the glass where it is not visible before hand. It becomes plain as day where the scorch mark is after the glass breaks.

CF is very electrically conductive and when the defroster was turned on, it shorted against the carbon decklid and blows up the window. I took a deep breath and hit the switch on my car. Mine was OK. A friend of mine not so lucky. Better to find out conclusively while its under warranty than avoid it.

[mjorgensen]

Details;

[Bugman Jeff]

Better to find out conclusively while its under warranty than avoid it.

If I had a Gen V, I'd set up a video camera and push the button. Either it will work just fine, or it'll shatter. If you don't try it now and you car is one of those at risk, it could shatter some time down the road, and probably an an inconvenient time. Best to know for certain while the car is new and under warranty. I'd set up the camera just in case the dealer gives you guff about it you'll be able to prove that it was the defroster that caused it to break.

[ACRucrazy]

I thought this was well known? There have been several with this issue post about it on the forums. It even happened to an LE at homecoming last year while leaving the hotel for Chelsea Proving Grounds.

[Malu59RT]

Yes, this is a known issue, and for those with early build numbers, or buying cars that sat on dealer lots for 1-2 years, they need to be aware. Not to mention, if you had the dealer perform the TSB and check, you are still not in the clear. Two cars that I know of, have documentation showing the glass was checked per the TSB that Mark posted, and they STILL shattered.

[Viper Girl]

So we know what constitutes an early build number? Is 4002xx considered early?

[SADVIPER]

Thanks for raising the issue guys. I really get benifits from visiting the forums since the crappy dealer service we recieve in my country.
My vin#1C3ADEAZ6DV400211
Should I be worried? I'll difently test with that guide Mark sent, thanks!

[Malu59RT]

So we know what constitutes an early build number? Is 4002xx considered early?


: This bulletin applies to vehicles built on or before August 12, 2013 (MDH
0812XX).

I believe your build date should be on one of the stickers on the car. I would look on mine and report....but....yeah.... :(

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

The MDH is the key...... early 2013 ONLY. No other worries. If you have a 2013 built on or before August 12, 2013 (MDH
0812XX) on the door, then pull your defroster FUSE til you can get it checked out. Some owners or nosy passengers have inadvertently turned the defroster on by bumping the button

I would like to ask the OP or mods to please CHANGE THE THREAD TITLE here to "2013 Possible Rear Defroster Issue" rather than the inflammatory and confusing header it says now, painting all Gen V? ? THANKS MUCH

[mjorgensen]

Thanks for raising the issue guys. I really get benifits from visiting the forums since the crappy dealer service we recieve in my country.
My vin#1C3ADEAZ6DV400211
Should I be worried? I'll difently test with that guide Mark sent, thanks!

Yours is not affected

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I thought this was well known? There have been several with this issue post about it on the forums. It even happened to an LE at homecoming last year while leaving the hotel for Chelsea Proving Grounds.


EXACTLY! This was covered a couple times, and in depth on Facebook (!) People: THis is NOT a Gen V issue but an "EARLY 2013 ISSUE." The running design change to a slightly smaller defroster grid makes issue impossible on later cars.

Its easy to check with a credit card (or 2) for example: Just run the card back-in between the hatch glass and the CF Hatch surround, to ensure the metal defroster grid is not extremely close (or touching) the CF. CF is a conductor, and so is the wire defroster. They can ARC /Short out and KABLOOIE on the glass.

[Viper Girl]

For clarity I asked the OP about changing the title, and he has agreed... Thread title changed to clarify year of issue.

[Malu59RT]

The MDH is the key...... early 2013 ONLY. No other worries. If you have a 2013 built on or before August 12, 2013 (MDH
0812XX) on the door, then pull your defroster FUSE til you can get it checked out. Some owners or nosy passengers have inadvertently turned the defroster on by bumping the button

I would like to ask the OP or mods to please CHANGE THE THREAD TITLE here to "2013 Possible Rear Defroster Issue" rather than the inflammatory and confusing header it says now, painting all Gen V? ? THANKS MUCH

I posted this thread because it happened to me on Saturday. I thought to post about it then, but figured I would keep silent until it was resolved, assuming it was a freak incident. Then yesterday a local friend that bought a car I was considering last year, had his back window shatter in an eerily similar way. I felt bad, because I should have warned him, and others. This thread was to serve notice, because I'm sure others had their dealer check before it shattered, which didn't rule it out completely. I ended up cutting my hands in a few places, digging my valuables from the trunk of my car with shattered class all over, before loading it on a wrecker 50 miles from my dealership and completely ruining my weekend.

A moderator could change it to "WARNING 2013 VIPERS BUILT BEFORE AUGUST 12, 2013 DEFROSTER ISSUE" and save some other 2013 owners a headache :)

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Thanks for alerting the appropriate owner base. I assume we had the same event discussion on FaceBk yesterday? Do take me up on the invite there.....

[SADVIPER]

Thanks Mark kudos.

[VIPERGTSRT10]

So if we have hit the button before, regardless of the conditions (cold/hot temps, fogged window, etc), then we should be OK? When I got my car last year the local dealer checked my VIN and said my car was "fixed" (not the same dealer I bought the car from). Just to be safe I hit the button when I had it at the dealer (had it there for a software update) because if something bad was going to happen I preferred that it happened at the dealer, and nothing happened. That was the first and last time I have ever hit the rear defrost button though.

[SHADOWSNAKE]

I've been tracking this since NVE1, however, I just re-checked mine. Built May 2013. The dealer swore it was good to go when I had it inspected months ago. Still, I've never pressed the button and now I am second guessing the dealership. Can I assume the "credit card check" will sufficiently determine if I'm in trouble or not?

[ViperSmith]

Live dangerously and press the button! lol

[SHADOWSNAKE]

Ha! Lemme grab the GoPro so I can post...

[ViperTony]

So, for those of you that experienced this....did dealer replace the glass or did the entire rear hatch have to be replaced?

[v10tt]

Which one is d defroster fuse anyways? According to Mark mine is not in d list based on d vin number although it was but on 6-13.
I got huge gaps between d glass and car in fiber around d area of the lid towards d roof of the car. On d end towards d tail lights d (2) credit cards fit tight.
Will it blow d glass by just pressing d bottom one time, or does it need to stay on for a few a a or minutes to blow

[CJS]

So my MDH is 071609 does this mean July 16? I only ask because the "Date of MFR" is 8-13. Sounds like I may be right on the line?

[SilveRT8]

I took delivery of my car on August 12, so I ASSume it was built before that date !
Where's my Owners manual so I can locate that fuse and pull it?

[Malu59RT]

Thanks for alerting the appropriate owner base. I assume we had the same event discussion on FaceBk yesterday? Do take me up on the invite there.....

I was on Brian's Facebook post, but didn't see anything directed to me?


I've been tracking this since NVE1, however, I just re-checked mine. Built May 2013. The dealer swore it was good to go when I had it inspected months ago. Still, I've never pressed the button and now I am second guessing the dealership. Can I assume the "credit card check" will sufficiently determine if I'm in trouble or not?

I thought I was good after the dealer checked it also, until it happened to me. I will keep everyone posted on what the dealer/Chrysler has to say, since mine was inspected and still shattered. Maybe they release a new TSB, or recall all of the affected cars to change the glass regardless. In any case, just be aware of it, so it doesn't become an inconvenience when you least expect it.

[BDZ1984]

My car was the other car that Jason is referring to. New Glass Ordered, NOT on back order like everything else this car has needed. Dealer has been very helpful even let me keep the car in the garage and send them pictures to get the glass ordered. Helps I live 2 miles from them. 1317013171

[Bugman Jeff]

I just had a thought. Aren't car dealers supposed to do a "pre-sales inspection/setup?" I worked through college as a tech at the local Harley dealer, and every new bike we got had a few hours worth of setup and a two page inspection list. Included in the inspection was testing everything electrical to make sure it all functioned as it should. Why didn't the dealer push the button before the car was ever delivered to the customer? Don't car dealers have the same kind of thing?

[swexlin]

I just had a thought. Aren't car dealers supposed to do a "pre-sales inspection/setup?" I worked through college as a tech at the local Harley dealer, and every new bike we got had a few hours worth of setup and a two page inspection list. Included in the inspection was testing everything electrical to make sure it all functioned as it should. Why didn't the dealer push the button before the car was ever delivered to the customer? Don't car dealers have the same kind of thing?

Remember, these are Dodge dealers we're talking about. Unless it's Woodhouse, VE, Roanoke, and a couple select others......I wouldn't count on it. Unfortunate, but true.

[SilveRT8]

Remember, these are Dodge dealers we're talking about. Unless it's Woodhouse, VE, Roanoke, and a couple select others......I wouldn't count on it. Unfortunate, but true.

Yess, those dealers mentionned seem to push all the right buttons ! ;-)

[SilveRT8]

Can't find the fuse # for rear defrost in the owners manual
Anybody know ?

[640bhpV10]

Is anyone aware of this happening to a 2014 or later car?

My 2013 was a trackpack car and it shattered 3 days after buying it. Took several weeks to replace.

I ask because the salesman who sold me my 2015 has Viper GTS (says its a 2015) - his car looked exactly like the 2013 dealer GTS demo cars (hence I'm wondering...) - said that his rear glass also shattered.

I haven't had the guts to try it on my 2015 yet, not in the mood to miss out on 2-4 weeks of driving during the summer and fall.

Are there any confirmed cases of these defroster malfunctions after 2013?

-Nick

[LmeaViper]

Shit, this would apply to my car as well. Is there a way to check what TSB's have been done to my car? As I did see it wasn't on the dealer's to do list last time I was in there.

[Malu59RT]

Shit, this would apply to my car as well. Is there a way to check what TSB's have been done to my car? As I did see it wasn't on the dealer's to do list last time I was in there.

Hate to say it, but it probably doesn't matter. Brian and I had two different local dealers do our TSB, and either the TSB really doesn't mean anything, the Gap can change over time, or we are just both unlucky. Maybe the next time you take it to the dealer, let him know you want to run the defroster in front of him, and see what happens. Just be prepared to be without your car in case it does break.

[ViperTony]

Hate to say it, but it probably doesn't matter. Brian and I had two different local dealers do our TSB, and either the TSB really doesn't mean anything, the Gap can change over time, or we are just both unlucky. Maybe the next time you take it to the dealer, let him know you want to run the defroster in front of him, and see what happens. Just be prepared to be without your car in case it does break.

So many factors come into play...does the "tech" know what they're doing? Even with written instructions some don't get it right. Just because they stated they performed the TSB doesn't mean they actually did it. Been there. I went through 5 Dodge dealerships with certified techs before I found one that actually is worth a damn and knows what he's doing. So many service departments that just don't know what they're doing or don't want to do it. Sad state of affairs.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I've been tracking this since NVE1, however, I just re-checked mine. Built May 2013. The dealer swore it was good to go when I had it inspected months ago. Still, I've never pressed the button and now I am second guessing the dealership. Can I assume the "credit card check" will sufficiently determine if I'm in trouble or not?

YES, I did that exact check on some early cars at Buttonwillow with a great dealer-principal observing. But we did not ht the button. Just so you ensure to insert the credit card (or cards 2 thick) deep enuf to cover the metal DF grid.

Note: I suppose Anyone who has the luggage area crammed chock-full with stuff to the point it could crush the CF surround up against the grid would NOT be using the defrost anyway???

- - - Updated - - -


I've been tracking this since NVE1, however, I just re-checked mine. Built May 2013. The dealer swore it was good to go when I had it inspected months ago. Still, I've never pressed the button and now I am second guessing the dealership. Can I assume the "credit card check" will sufficiently determine if I'm in trouble or not?

YES, I did that exact check on some early cars at Buttonwillow with a great dealer-principal observing. But we did not ht the button. Just so you ensure to insert the credit card (or cards 2 thick) deep enuf to cover the metal DF grid.

Note: I suppose Anyone who has the luggage area crammed chock-full with stuff to the point it could crush the CF surround up against the grid would NOT be using the defrost anyway???

[bogdan]

Had my rear glass spacing checked. No gap between grid and hatch. Glass on order. Good thing I've been avoiding the rear defroster button since I got the car. :fpopcorn:

Thanks for the heads-up!

[Malu59RT]

Had my rear glass spacing checked. No gap between grid and hatch. Glass on order. Good thing I've been avoiding the rear defroster button since I got the car. :fpopcorn:

Thanks for the heads-up!

Why are they replacing the glass? Wouldn't they cut the class out and re-install it with a thicker bead of sealant?

Glad to hear it got caught before it shattered, and that the thread has saved at least one person from this headache!

[Exhlr8n]

Anyone have a pic or number of which fuse to pull?

Thanks

[bogdan]

Why are they replacing the glass? Wouldn't they cut the class out and re-install it with a thicker bead of sealant?

Glad to hear it got caught before it shattered, and that the thread has saved at least one person from this headache!

I was wondering the same thing. It seems like the repair instructions say to replace the glass.

[mjorgensen]

Why are they replacing the glass? Wouldn't they cut the class out and re-install it with a thicker bead of sealant?

Glad to hear it got caught before it shattered, and that the thread has saved at least one person from this headache!


I was wondering the same thing. It seems like the repair instructions say to replace the glass.

The new glass moves the heating element inward away from the CF, the gap still needs to be maintained though where the element comes from under the hatch to the strip, theoretically if they put the new glass down too tight it could still happen so the shop doing the work needs direction from dealer. We did this yesterday with a LE and I spent an hour and a half installing it with them to insure it was all done correctly, not what I wanted to do with my day, but at least it's right and they know what I expect in the future.

[Malu59RT]

The new glass moves the heating element inward away from the CF, the gap still needs to be maintained though where the element comes from under the hatch to the strip, theoretically if they put the new glass down too tight it could still happen so the shop doing the work needs direction from dealer. We did this yesterday with a LE and I spent an hour and a half installing it with them to insure it was all done correctly, not what I wanted to do with my day, but at least it's right and they know what I expect in the future.

Good to know Mark, and I am hoping I don't have this issue again. Fingers crossed the dealer does it right!

[lochnessmonster]

Went home at lunch, checked the gap. Looked good. Fired up the car and let the rear defroster run for 1/2 hour so the back glass got nice and warm, no issues. Yeah!!!! Thanx for the heads up guys.

[lochnessmonster]

If you're feeling adventurous press the button :devilish:

Yep. It's Friday. I said, "What the heck, I'm gonna get a little crazy today." :dude3:

[ZeeViper]

So if the gap is good all the way around (over the 1.5mm feeler gauge) should i still go into the dealer for the tape? If so, i'm just going to throw some Kapton tape in the spots they call out in the service bulletin. Dont feel like having some goons monkey around with tape for a couple hours while i wait and drink 4 oz bottles of water and shitty coffee hahah.

[swexlin]

Yep. It's Friday. I said, "What the heck, I'm gonna get a little crazy today." :dude3:

You got bigger balls than me, LOL! Car goes in next month for PA inspection and service, think I'll have my tech push the button while it's there!

[ViperSmith]

If you wnat to risk it and push the button, put a sheet in the trunk area so you don't have to pick glass up forever

[lochnessmonster]

Haha.... I did have a look at the back glass before I pressed the button, and I did notice that there was the .25mm-1.5mm gap. It also appeared as though the previous owner (Actually the owner of the dealership) had the TSB complied with because there is some beige tape all around the edge of the window. I just figured, I'd rather have it blow up now while it's on warranty. The warranty runs out July 9th, 2016. Maybe not as big a balls as it might seem :(

[SilveRT8]

Anyone have a pic or number of which fuse to pull?

Thanks

It's Fuse #20, a Pink 30 amp, located in the middle row, third from the top near the + cable.
I asked the same question a week ago and got no answer, so I stopped by my Dealer today, and had them look for it.
I pulled mine out untill next week when the car will go into service to be checked for this issue.

[ViperTony]

Had my rear window TSB done today. Turns out that the original dealer that claimed to have performed this TSB earlier this year didn't actually do anything. No surprise there. Glass didn't need to be replaced but the tape was installed per the TSB. Defroster working and no shattered glass. Woo hoo!!!!!

[ViperSmith]

Had my rear window TSB done today. Turns out that the original dealer that claimed to have performed this TSB earlier this year didn't actually do anything. No surprise there. Glass didn't need to be replaced but the tape was installed per the TSB. Defroster working and no shattered glass. Woo hoo!!!!!

I hope you let Dodge know, getting paid to do a TSB and not doing it...

[Exhlr8n]

Thank you SilveRT8..!

[SandViper]

So... Mine just shattered tonight, after I hit the defrost button... Then found this thread. inside the car it smells like burnt electronics. Its a 16 ACR

[AZTVR]

So... Mine just shattered tonight, after I hit the defrost button... Then found this thread. inside the car it smells like burnt electronics. Its a 16 ACR There are apparently two TSBs for this issue. One for 2013-2014 and a second for 2015-2017 for specific configurations, including ACR. The one for your vehicle appears to be TSB 23-052-17. See post 93 in the following thread: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/18620-Rear-wind-screen-explosion-in-Gen-V?p=351723&viewfull=1#post351723

[ddmrk]

My just blew up also then I find out about the issue ��*♂️
Question if it's an issue since day 1 and the owners where never notified of the issue the Viper had the problem then why will they not cover it under warranty even if the car is 6 years old and only has 5500 miles, it should have been a RECALL !!

[Mark1107]

I’m doing this tomorrow!

It's Fuse #20, a Pink 30 amp, located in the middle row, third from the top near the + cable.
I asked the same question a week ago and got no answer, so I stopped by my Dealer today, and had them look for it.
I pulled mine out untill next week when the car will go into service to be checked for this issue.

[Martin]

My just blew up also then I find out about the issue ��*♂️
Question if it's an issue since day 1 and the owners where never notified of the issue the Viper had the problem then why will they not cover it under warranty even if the car is 6 years old and only has 5500 miles, it should have been a RECALL !!

Apparently, getting a recall enforced is more complicated than it seems. I have a Grand Cherokee that developed a squeaky driver's seat, and I did some research and found a ton of other complaints about the same thing. I brought it to the dealer, and they said "well, there's no recall, and your car is out of warranty, so there's nothing we can do." Then, about a year later, the seat started rocking side to side as I drove, and it finally gave up completely when I was pulling away from a stop light - and I ended up in the back seat. By pure luck, nothing bad happened - but it certainly could have. I wrote a letter of complaint to Jeep, and filed a complaint with the NHTSA to see what would happen. Never heard a thing back. I ended up just buying a set of racing seats, and it's been more comfortable ever since.

Long story short, if it's not something that's related to brakes, emissions, airbags, fire danger, or imminent engine seizure (leading to loss of control), it's not going to go to the top of the list of recalls. I talked to someone, and asked how they felt that a driver's seat that completely detached from its anchor mechanism couldn't be construed as "imminent loss of control" and they just said "we'll log it in our books and you'll hear from us if needed". BS in my opinion.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

My just blew up also then I find out about the issue ��*♂️
Question if it's an issue since day 1 and the owners where never notified of the issue the Viper had the problem then why will they not cover it under warranty even if the car is 6 years old and only has 5500 miles, it should have been a RECALL !!


The issue of glass availability is also at play here......

[quickster2]

Is the fuse the same for a Gen IV? Car is under cover in semi-heated garage so no hurry as I will check myself. My car will never see frost anyway.

[Steve M]

Is the fuse the same for a Gen IV? Car is under cover in semi-heated garage so no hurry as I will check myself. My car will never see frost anyway.

This is not a Gen IV issue. We don't have fancy carbon fiber body work like the Gen 5s do, which is what causes the issue.

[cubeman]

The issue of glass availability is also at play here......

Fact it took me over 7 months just to get a windshield, Wonder what the rear glass availability is like now months later. Took two weeks just to get my hands on window regulators.

[ddmrk]

Well I have to give Jon B from partsRack a MILLION Thanks again for coming through with my rear hatch glass