differences in '92 and '93?

[Track Pack]

Hi everyone. Have owned Gen 2, 4 and 5. Am considering adding a very low mile Gen 1 this Fall or Winter. Aside from '92 being the initial year of Viper mania and the pros and cons that go with that, what are any specific differences between '92 and later Gen 1 models? I realize the first model year is very special, however seems like I've seen a few very tempting '93 cars at significant discounts to '92s... I'm familiar with the count #s and colors of each year based on the IVR. Also, if you have a very low mile, original/stock car, please feel free to PM me. Thx everyone. John

[gfviperman]

The early 93s were very similar to the 92s ... they had they antenna.

About halfway through the 93 model year, they made several changes to the body and the antenna was removed and put into the windshield.

The latter 93 bodies and the 94s and 95s were pretty much identical except for colors and wheels finishes. Also, many 94s and 95s came with AC.

Additionally, the intake manifold was changed in 94 ...

Mine was a "late" 93 .. # 796. The hood fit was absolutely perfect. Guessing when they restarted the line, extra care went into the hood fit.

[Rand1993]

I have an early 93. The battery is under the spare tire on the passenger side. I think later 93s have battery behind the wheel well on driver side.

[daveg]

Here ya go.
http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5186705313.html

[Track Pack]

thx for the info.

[Canuck]

I own a 92.

I have heard that the headlights are slightly different.

As mentioned above, battery and antennae are different.

I like the battery better accessing it from the trunk, find in more convenient than taking off a spare tire personally.

The antennae makes the car look cooler in my opinion (owned a 1977 vette so perhaps some bias). It gets in the way a bit though when putting a car cover on and off.

Some other parts may be different of 1992 vs other gen 1s. I ordered a side door handle trim from VPA and not quite the same mold as the 1992.

If 1992 is in budget vs. other Gen 1s, I'd consider going for a 1992 since so many of the fixed budget items (like new tires, headgasket replacement, transport from purchase place to new home, storage) are going to be fixed costs regardless.

[Vprbite]

Here ya go.
http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5186705313.html

Isn't that a 92 with AC???? I thought they didn't have it. Retrofit from a newer gen I perhaps?

[FLATOUT]

I have a 92, material on the side windows and top are also different. Lots of little things are different/unique to the 92's. Underbody fasteners and things like that.

[gfviperman]

There was a kit for AC.

Put one on my late 93.

Fun project .. worked OK ...

[GTS Dean]

There were constant minor changes made to the Gen1s throughout production. 92/93 were quite similar, while 94/95 were more similar to each other. One fairly major change during the 93 model year was a move from 2-piece exhaust manifold to single casting that was retained thru the 96 RTs. IIRC, it was around VIN 641. A/C was not available on 92s. When ordered, 93s shipped a full kit for dealer installation - mine was one of them - PV200771. The top/side curtain canvas material was also different between 92/93.

[ACRSNK]

Isn't that a 92 with AC???? I thought they didn't have it. Retrofit from a newer gen I perhaps?

Where in the ad does it say that the car has AC? I don't see that anywhere.

[Vprbite]

You can see the AC dials (and all the vents for that matter) in the picture.

That is why I thoght if it is truly a 92 and not mislabeled, perhaps they retrofitted a 93 kit.

[ACRSNK]

You can see the AC dials (and all the vents for that matter) in the picture.

That is why I thoght if it is truly a 92 and not mislabeled, perhaps they retrofitted a 93 kit.

Are you and I looking at the same pictures? The dash looks like every other 92 and where do you get that there are "AC dials"? I don't see that. Looks just like my dash in my 92.

[Drummerviper]

I am told my 92 has a lot of odd stuff, even other 92s don't have. My favorite part are the keys that rather than have a dealer tag , simply say " Mr. Lutz" .

[ACRSNK]

I am told my 92 has a lot of odd stuff, even other 92s don't have. My favorite part are the keys that rather than have a dealer tag , simply say " Mr. Lutz" .

That is so cool!

[Track Pack]

So after a week or two, I see there are a good # of vey low mile '92- '94 cars out there with less than 2,000 miles (wow, less than 100 miles/year for 20 years...). Many posts out there about being weary of cars that just sit and gaskets, seals, etc. Is there a way that a seller could take their car to a local Dodge dealer (Viper Tech) to inspect and see if these are leaking, etc. and would need replacement? I'm sorry, this may sound like a dumb questions, but I've owned 6 Vipers and the oldest one I ever purchased at the time or purchase was about 13 years old (from a non-Dodge dealer) and the car had lots of repairs needed that I was unhappy about.... Every other car was also bought sight unseen but new enough to still be covered under full warranty...

[ACRSNK]

So after a week or two, I see there are a good # of vey low mile '92- '94 cars out there with less than 2,000 miles (wow, less than 100 miles/year for 20 years...). Many posts out there about being weary of cars that just sit and gaskets, seals, etc. Is there a way that a seller could take their car to a local Dodge dealer (Viper Tech) to inspect and see if these are leaking, etc. and would need replacement? I'm sorry, this may sound like a dumb questions, but I've owned 6 Vipers and the oldest one I ever purchased at the time or purchase was about 13 years old (from a non-Dodge dealer) and the car had lots of repairs needed that I was unhappy about.... Every other car was also bought sight unseen but new enough to still be covered under full warranty...

You are always much better off getting a car that hasn't been sitting for the last 23 years. Any reputable seller will allow you to have a thorough inspection from a Viper Tech. As far as your search goes, I don't think you can lump the 92 with any other GEN 1's. The 92 is a standout because it was the first year Viper. Very rare and it will always command a premium over other Gen 1's. It can't really be compared to any other Viper in my book as it is and always will be the first Viper. If you are considering a 93 - 95, you will get a much better deal on one of those, of which there are plenty out there, than you will on a 92. If you are specifically looking for a low mile GEN 1 Viper for a great price, I would cross the 92 off your list. Prices have been rocketing on that car. Good luck with your search.

[Granger73]

Just curious as to what data you referenced to conclude that 1992 prices have been "rocketing."

[ACRSNK]

Just curious as to what data you referenced to conclude that 1992 prices have been "rocketing."

The "data" is in the current pricing. Just look online and see what they are going for. There are a couple on line that are well north of $50K and $60K. I have been keeping an eye on prices for the last few years and they are definitely trending upward. The last year has seen a significant price increase. The market for these cars is in the hands of a very few, so it doesn't surprise me that the numbers have been climbing. I'm sure there are less than originally produced out there. With only 285 units ever produced and only 236 units produced for the U.S., it is a very rare car. How many are left?

[Drummerviper]

Look at 53 Vettes and I would say they will reach $200 - 400 k but we may well be gone by then.

[Granger73]

The "data" is in the current pricing. Just look online and see what they are going for. There are a couple on line that are well north of $50K and $60K. I have been keeping an eye on prices for the last few years and they are definitely trending upward. The last year has seen a significant price increase. The market for these cars is in the hands of a very few, so it doesn't surprise me that the numbers have been climbing. I'm sure there are less than originally produced out there. With only 285 units ever produced and only 236 units produced for the U.S., it is a very rare car. How many are left?
I'm not talking about asking price. What was the highest selling prices of the most recent 92's that you are aware of?

[Canuck]

Here is the Hagerty graph of percentage change over time.
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=58222
The right side of the graph is starting to lift, though this is a general trend across makes, likely due to flatline post Great Recession. Stock valuations are high, I reckon people are considering at least partly rotating into other types of blue chips.

There was a nice 1992 that I thought had a tie to this forum, picked up by BJ Motors
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper-RT-10-/262020330088?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d01a0f268&item=262020330088
Listed at $64,995. Their own acquisition price would probably be a bit less, since they have to pay their rent and staff, but it looks like a very nice machine.

Sifting through further, came across this ad:
http://www.autoblog.com/used-detail--6977078826426939798-Dodge-Viper-1992
Which looks like a decent deal (if still available) on a 1992, though higher miles, and looking at pictures it would need at least a few things to go back to stock: wheels, spark plug wires, radio. Plus if from NJ, I'd want to look closely to ensure not a flood vehicle.

Hemmings doesn't seem to have a single 1992 for sale at the moment, which is surprising, though may be more of a trend in the future. The issue is the value is only what the price of the cheapest comparable is, and when there are few unmolested lower mile 1992s changing hands, the price is set by the few sales that take place.

As wisely mentioned above, the 1953/1954 corvette is likely similar to the 1992/1993 viper dyad. Very close between the years but there is that price difference due to the first of a make, and the uncommonness. And for Viper, it wasn't by accident that there was only 200-odd of them. The four-fathers were car guys who explicitly wanted to copy the plan of the Corvette launch and make only a tiny number of cars the first year to build buzz, which it helped to do, and now its only 12 months away away from a silver anniversary model availability which is always quite a feat.

[Granger73]

Everyone should read the condition descriptions available on the Hagerty chart cited by Canuck. How many cars meet the #1 condition requirements? Not many. Just the dash alone can be a major issue. I think the majority of low mileage 92's would most likely be classified as condition #2 cars at best. In addition to condition, a cars history has a tremendous influence on collector value. Such as the 21 engineering test vehicles and obviously those with ownership provenance such as the Lutz car. There's a lot to consider. As usual, documentation will also be a major contributing factor.

[ViperJon]

As wisely mentioned above, the 1953/1954 corvette is likely similar to the 1992/1993 viper dyad. Very close between the years but there is that price difference due to the first of a make, and the uncommonness. And for Viper, it wasn't by accident that there was only 200-odd of them. The four-fathers were car guys who explicitly wanted to copy the plan of the Corvette launch and make only a tiny number of cars the first year to build buzz, which it helped to do, and now its only 12 months away away from a silver anniversary model availability which is always quite a feat.

You're forgetting an important distinction when comparing early Vettes to early Vipers regarding the collectability factor.
Vettes have a huge following of devotees, generally older guys who would likely pay whatever is needed to acquire an early model for their collection.
There is no Viper demand to drive values for early cars, regardless of what some dealer lists it for.

[Drummerviper]

You're forgetting an important distinction when comparing early Vettes to early Vipers regarding the collectability factor.
Vettes have a huge following of devotees, generally older guys who would likely pay whatever is needed to acquire an early model for their collection.
There is no Viper demand to drive values for early cars, regardless of what some dealer lists it for.

Disagree. Vipers have a much different provenance . Year in and out, low production. No history of really poor , low HP cars, automatics , just a different animal. In 30 years that will mean a lot, but like I said not to many of us.

[Canuck]

Vipers have a much different provenance . Year in and out, low production. No history of really poor , low HP cars, automatics , just a different animal. In 30 years that will mean a lot, but like I said not to many of us.

All excellent points.

[ViperRT98]

Disagree. Vipers have a much different provenance . Year in and out, low production. No history of really poor , low HP cars, automatics , just a different animal. In 30 years that will mean a lot, but like I said not to many of us.

I believe the reason for that is this.... Corvette have so many different models... Base/ Grand Sport / Z06 and ZR1 therefore they were able to reach more people economically speaking to buy new Corvette. However since they are high Number production vehicles they decrease in value much quicker for the second hand market to buy.

Majority of the Corvette owners want to believe that they can afford the Dodge Viper. Since most of the owners are second and third owners of the vehicles and they're paying the lower premium to buy into the brand. However majority of them would want a Dodge Viper over there Corvette if we were able to compare apples to apples far as price is concerned. But let's be honest how many of us are willing to pay for a generation 1 or 2 Viper that you can buy a generation C6 Z06 for the same price and in some cases it's much more difficult to finance an older Viper vs in Newer Corvette.

I do strongly believe and approximately 20 More years that the generation 1 And 2 Vipers would definitely be 100% collectible vehicles in the market will be there for resale.... I could easily see them collecting three times the value of the current price for sale.

Remember the Viper was made to be the modern day AC Cobra.. what happened the original AC Cobra is worth a lot of money and you can buy a kit car that resembles the AC Cobra for a pretty penny.... You can buy the original Dodge Viper or you can buy a Corvette and buy the Viper kit body in make your Corvette to resemble the Viper for the fraction of the cost to own a real Viper. there will be a market for the Viper to be a collector it's already started...

[Granger73]

The biggest difference between the Viper and the Vette? The Vette had the NCRS. They organized in 1974, when the Vette was 21 years old. The Viper is nearing its 25th anniversary and very little if anything has been done to document and memorialize these cars. NCRS created a method to validate the authenticity of their cars. This allowed folks who were more interested in the investment aspect of the car to properly evaluate these cars prior to purchasing them. Without this kind of commitment, the Viper will likely flounder as a true collectable.

[FLATOUT]

I wouldn't let my pristine all original 92 go for less than 70k. It's that good. Very rare these days and finding a really good one with low miles is getting very hard to find. I'll happily hang on to it.

I think I'll take mine on a beer run today :)

[ACRSNK]

I'm not talking about asking price. What was the highest selling prices of the most recent 92's that you are aware of?

Well I know what I paid for my car and I also know what others were asking and sold their 92's for while I was looking for my car and those numbers went well into the high $40's. It has been a while since that all went down and the asking prices have continued to increase for any 92's out there in the market, which there are very few. Bottom line is that you can fit all of the 92 owners in one room and the 200 some odd people that own them can decide what they are worth. It is an extremely rare car and I see the values going up from here. It is a very special car and I think all of the comparisons to the Corvette are not even close to the mark. Yes Corvettes are nice and yes they have a great following and yes they have NCRS, but a Vette is not, nor will it ever be a Viper. 2 totally different cars that are both special for what they are. I just think that the Viper is MORE special. I remember when this car came on the scene in 92 and it was all I could do to ride my bike to the nearest Dodge dealer to look at it through the window of the showroom. No other American made car has ever had me that excited since save for the 05 & 06 Ford GT. We'll see what happens, but I still say that a lot of people missed out on the 92 when they could have been had for a reasonable sum. Prices are up now and will continue to rise into the near future. The 92 is a standout for a very significant reason...it was the FIRST ONE.

***This post is not intended to be a dig on Vettes. I have owned many and will likely buy another mid year at some point.

[Canuck]

Bottom line is that you can fit all of the 92 owners in one room and the 200 some odd people that own them can decide what they are worth.

An excellent concise way to describe it.


Also looking again at this seemingly sub $30K 1992 Viper:
http://www.autoblog.com/used-detail--6977078826426939798-Dodge-Viper-1992
As well as wheels, spark plug wires, radio, I just noticed that the hood has been swapped out to a Gen II-looking one, making it one somewhat more thing expensive thing to get back to stock, plus some wriggling to perhaps get it to fit with less gaps. Looks like the side Viper stickers didn't get back on the swapped out hood.

Maybe owner just liked the aesthetic of a later hood, but concern would be front impact damage that couldn't save hood (though no accident reported to CarFax on that VIN)