FINAL answer on Gen V Viper Differential lubricant...plus a Gen IV tip...

[Steve-Indy]

OK Viper Owners, here is THE FINAL ANSWER concerning our LONG discussion of the "factory fill" and "service fluid" used in the Gen V Viper differentials. I cannot and will not post the sources of the info contained here...BUT, merely express my personal thanks and appreciation to the kind, interested, "high level professionals" who provided this communication. Thanks are also owed to "lochnessmonster" for calling our collective attention to this situation. You can see this initial discussion in this link: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9410-Differential-fluid-change-and-the-addition-of-friction-modifier

"The Viper rear axle lube used from 1992 – 2010 (with Dana Trac-Lok and Hydra-Lok differentials) was the corporate ‘standard’ MS-8985 synthetic 75W-140… this was the same generic 75W-140 used in many other Chrysler products. For the Viper, the MS-10111 limited slip additive was also required. Viper fill volume to the bottom of the fill plug is about 48 oz. The factory fill at Dana was pre-blended with friction modifier at 5% by volume. For Service, the 75W-140 and the friction modifier are sold separately and the dealer/customer need to do the mix. The correct friction modifier amount for the Viper axle fill based on the 5% blend is about 2.4 oz. Unfortunately the stuff comes in a 4 oz. bottle I believe, so somewhere along the line, it became popular to put in a full bottle. A little more or less does not cause problems, but the correct amount has always been 5% by volume. Because it was a generic synthetic 75W-140, the MS-8985 fluid came from a variety of fluid suppliers including Shell, Texaco, etc.


Over time and miles, the friction modifier tends to ‘burn off’ and become less effective, causing some chatter when turning or other NVH issues. Usually, a fresh fluid/friction modifier change is sufficient to get things back to normal. The NVH issue became more apparent with the introduction of the Viper GKN Visco Lok differential in 2008. For 2008 – 2010, we lived with the standard 75W-140 fluid because it met all of our durability requirements and was less expensive than other lube alternatives. But we did have more of a friction modifier ‘loss of effectiveness’ issue with the Visco Lok as we got more experience with the new differential. We learned that on some cars, the Visco Lok would tend to make a howl/growl/grind noise when turning at low speed if the friction modifier was used up. So for 2013, we went with the special Castrol SAF-XJ 75W-140 synthetic developed by Castrol and GKN for the Visco Lok. This fluid has a different friction modifier and blend % already mixed for factory fill and Service. No added friction modifier is necessary. It is also recommended that the Castrol SAF-XJ be used for Service of 2008 – 2010 Vipers with the Visco Lok. I do not know if Castrol sells this product under their brand name, but I do know that it is available in a special ‘SRT’ bottle from Mopar. "

NOTE #1: "NVH" as used above in the second paragraph stands for "Noise, Vibration, and Harshness"...standard driveline issues.

NOTE #2: "Castrol SAF-XJ/SAE 75W-140 Synthetic Gear and Axle Lubricant" as listed in the Gen V Owners Manual has been renamed "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140".

The MOPAR part number for this fluid is 68197927AA and, YOU can purchase this at your local Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge-Ram dealership, though they may not have it in stock.

Thanks, again, to All who helped with this issue,

Steve Fess, Membership Coordinator, VOA IN/KY Region, Inc. 317-402-9013

[lochnessmonster]

Wow, nice job Steve! Sorry, I didn't see your request to get in touch with me in the other thread until just now. This is a very comprehensive review of the requirements throughout the years and what is required in our Gen V. Again, way to go! As people start getting to the point where this change is necessary, they'll be good to go.

[Simms]

Good info. Thanks!

[99RT10]

You rock, thanks Steve!! Great info!!!

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks, guys...BUT, it was Tom Sessions who carefully "reached up the line" and obtained this info !! As many of you know, NC Viper Tech Tom has a ton on experience, invaluable connections, and is a man who is very sharing with his time and knowledge. THANKS, Tom !!!

[Rapidrezults]

Thanks to all that participated in gathering this information! Good to have a community like this to get down to the nitty-gritty.

I know I will be changing my diff fluid soon and now it's one less thing to think about. :t1236:

[SRT BILL]

Great info and thanks to all that worked on this.

[swexlin]

Nice to know! I wrote it down, since I bet most dealers won't even know!

[Viper Specialty]

Excellent write up and explanation! Good info to have.

[viper04]

Steve-Indy
Thanks for the info as always good to know, will be doing one over the winter.

[wrh3]

Just in time for me to dump the factory filled fluids- Thanks!

[rlhay2]

This should be stickied in the Gen IV and Gen V forums.

Thanks for the reasearch!!

[TIME]

Thank you, for providing this info. I am printing it and sticking it in my manual.

[A99SilverACR]

All you can also get this fluid from a local BMW dealer as it is the same service fluid used in the M6...

[AZTVR]

I like seeing this kind of information as it shows why the usage of some other off-the-shelf purple fluid, or soil fluid used by "some friend" may not provide the same results as what the powertrain engineers specified. For better or worse.

[Steve M]

Just did some poking around on the interwebs to see if I could find a better price than the $33/qt Mopar charges for this fluid...looks like you can't buy this fluid in the US outside of a dealership. It is easier to come by across the pond (Europe) though. Not sure how I feel about that...I still have enough Torco gear oil + Mopar friction modifier to change the diff fluid this fall, so I'll probably use that up and re-evaluate in a year or two.

[wrh3]

I found the Castrol Syntrax at https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/differential-gear-oil-hypoid-sae-75w-140-1-liter.html?3593=545783 , not really any cheaper than at the dealer.

[TA Two Oh]

My local dealership did an Engine Oil and Filter change on my 2015 yesterday, and at my request, also changed the differential fluid. In reviewing my work order, they used the correct lubricant FCA Part # 68197927-AA, which is great. But they also added a friction modifier part # 04318060-AD, and it looks like that was unnecessary since it's already in the diff fluid. I don't care about the cost -it was minimal- but I am wondering if their mistake is bad for the differential. Thoughts?

[SnakeWatching]

Any harm in using the Castrol SAF-XJ for the Gen 2 differential? (so I don't have to mix the 2 parts)

[Steve-Indy]

I did not ask that question...but reading the "word", I would say no harm other than to your wallet. I do not intend to deviate from OEM specs for our Gen I, II, and III Vipers.

[Bill Pemberton]

Great info as always Steve and great to also give Mr. Sessions the thanks he deserves for his perseverance!!

[1of1TA1.0]

How does the Motul Gear Lube stack up to this. I ran Motul in my 08 ACR and never had a problem. I did change it after every other track weekend however.

[EZ 2B Green]

Moderators, can we make this thread a "sticky" so it's easy to find in the future?

[Chorps]

My local dealership did an Engine Oil and Filter change on my 2015 yesterday, and at my request, also changed the differential fluid. In reviewing my work order, they used the correct lubricant FCA Part # 68197927-AA, which is great. But they also added a friction modifier part # 04318060-AD, and it looks like that was unnecessary since it's already in the diff fluid. I don't care about the cost -it was minimal- but I am wondering if their mistake is bad for the differential. Thoughts?

This in the Nissan GT-R manual...granted the differentials are for an AWD computer controlled system, but the principles should be the same. Don't think it would matter much on a street driven Viper but if you are tracking it it might make a difference.


DIFFERENTIAL OIL (front and rear)

Castrol SAF-XJ 75W-140 (100% synthetic oil)

The GT-R uses a 1.5-Way mechanical Limited Slip Differential (LSD) to maximize driving power under many operating conditions. Use the specified differential oil to maximize the perfor- mance of the LSD. Also use the same oil for the front differential.

The use of additives is prohibited.

Using additives or any other than the specified differential oil may cause the oil temperature to increase and the final drive damaged. Also it may cause vibration and adversely the vehicle handling characteristics.

[TA Two Oh]

This in the Nissan GT-R manual...granted the differentials are for an AWD computer controlled system, but the principles should be the same. Don't think it would matter much on a street driven Viper but if you are tracking it it might make a difference.

Thanks. I appreciate your input. Excess heat and/or vibration doesn't sound good. I'll have it changed again.

[Chorps]

Thanks. I appreciate your input. Excess heat and/or vibration doesn't sound good. I'll have it changed again.

Tell me how much they ding you for the change over. I've been trying to find Syntrax and the cheapest I can see is about $70CAD for 2L shipped (to Edmonton)...not that it's a lot of money but when you see other 75W140s selling for a lot less it seems like a slap on the arse.

[TA Two Oh]

Tell me how much they ding you for the change over. I've been trying to find Syntrax and the cheapest I can see is about $70CAD for 2L shipped (to Edmonton)...not that it's a lot of money but when you see other 75W140s selling for a lot less it seems like a slap on the arse.

2 bottles of fluid at $58.36 CAD each. BTW I called the dealer yesterday to ask why they added the friction modifier. They initially told me that it was necessary for that type of diff. So I asked the Service Writer to look up the instructions. He did so, and said that it didn't specifically mention adding it but that it was "a good idea to do anyway." I told him that my understanding was that if it was used, it could cause additional heat and vibration and possibly destroy the diff. Then he spoke to the Service Manager and after doing so he asked me to bring it back in immediately; they'll drain and refill it for me at no cost.

Overall, my dealer has been pretty good, but I have to keep on top of them. To my knowledge, they've sold exactly two Gen V's, so they just don't have any experience with them. Their Viper tech spends 99% of his time working on pickups.

Due to the info I garnered in this thread, I've prevented my diff from chewing itself up. Thanks, everyone!

[ACRucrazy]

OK Viper Owners, here is THE FINAL ANSWER concerning our LONG discussion of the "factory fill" and "service fluid" used in the Gen V Viper differentials. I cannot and will not post the sources of the info contained here...BUT, merely express my personal thanks and appreciation to the kind, interested, "high level professionals" who provided this communication. Thanks are also owed to "lochnessmonster" for calling our collective attention to this situation. You can see this initial discussion in this link: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9410-Differential-fluid-change-and-the-addition-of-friction-modifier

"The Viper rear axle lube used from 1992 – 2010 (with Dana Trac-Lok and Hydra-Lok differentials) was the corporate ‘standard’ MS-8985 synthetic 75W-140… this was the same generic 75W-140 used in many other Chrysler products. For the Viper, the MS-10111 limited slip additive was also required. Viper fill volume to the bottom of the fill plug is about 48 oz. The factory fill at Dana was pre-blended with friction modifier at 5% by volume. For Service, the 75W-140 and the friction modifier are sold separately and the dealer/customer need to do the mix. The correct friction modifier amount for the Viper axle fill based on the 5% blend is about 2.4 oz. Unfortunately the stuff comes in a 4 oz. bottle I believe, so somewhere along the line, it became popular to put in a full bottle. A little more or less does not cause problems, but the correct amount has always been 5% by volume. Because it was a generic synthetic 75W-140, the MS-8985 fluid came from a variety of fluid suppliers including Shell, Texaco, etc.


Over time and miles, the friction modifier tends to ‘burn off’ and become less effective, causing some chatter when turning or other NVH issues. Usually, a fresh fluid/friction modifier change is sufficient to get things back to normal. The NVH issue became more apparent with the introduction of the Viper GKN Visco Lok differential in 2008. For 2008 – 2010, we lived with the standard 75W-140 fluid because it met all of our durability requirements and was less expensive than other lube alternatives. But we did have more of a friction modifier ‘loss of effectiveness’ issue with the Visco Lok as we got more experience with the new differential. We learned that on some cars, the Visco Lok would tend to make a howl/growl/grind noise when turning at low speed if the friction modifier was used up. So for 2013, we went with the special Castrol SAF-XJ 75W-140 synthetic developed by Castrol and GKN for the Visco Lok. This fluid has a different friction modifier and blend % already mixed for factory fill and Service. No added friction modifier is necessary. It is also recommended that the Castrol SAF-XJ be used for Service of 2008 – 2010 Vipers with the Visco Lok. I do not know if Castrol sells this product under their brand name, but I do know that it is available in a special ‘SRT’ bottle from Mopar. "

NOTE #1: "NVH" as used above in the second paragraph stands for "Noise, Vibration, and Harshness"...standard driveline issues.

NOTE #2: "Castrol SAF-XJ/SAE 75W-140 Synthetic Gear and Axle Lubricant" as listed in the Gen V Owners Manual has been renamed "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140".

The MOPAR part number for this fluid is 68197927AA and, YOU can purchase this at your local Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge-Ram dealership, though they may not have it in stock.

Thanks, again, to All who helped with this issue,

Steve Fess, Membership Coordinator, VOA IN/KY Region, Inc. 317-402-9013

Thanks for the info! If I am understanding all this, TLDR

92-10 = 45.6 oz of "standard’ MS-8985 synthetic 75W-140 and 2.4 oz MS-10111 limited slip additive was also required. (This is factory fill for all Gen I-IV and service fill for Gen I-III)

08-17= 48 oz of Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 or MOPAR part number 68197927AA with no additive. (This was factory fill for Gen V and service fill for the Gen IV-V)

[Chorps]

Thanks TA Two Oh. :-)

[Steve-Indy]

ACRucrazy, I think that you will find that techs at dealerships are using the OEM fill for service on Gen IV Vipers. I believe this will continue into the future as most use the bulk 75-140 and throw in the additive.

Keep in mind that the comment regarding a possible benefit of Syntrax foe Gen IV's came in a "communication" and was not published as far as I know...at the time I posted "THE FINAL ANSWER".

Certainly individual owners are free to choose for their own Viper.

[TA Two Oh]

BTW I called the dealer yesterday to ask why they added the friction modifier. They initially told me that it was necessary for that type of diff. So I asked the Service Writer to look up the instructions. He did so, and said that it didn't specifically mention adding it but that it was "a good idea to do anyway." I told him that my understanding was that if it was used, it could cause additional heat and vibration and possibly destroy the diff. Then he spoke to the Service Manager and after doing so he asked me to bring it back in immediately; they'll drain and refill it for me at no cost.



I guess my story isn't over yet. The Service Writer called me this morning to "give me good news!" He said that when they ordered the fluid for my appointment today, they found out that that 4 oz of Limited Slip Additive is required after all. I asked him to email the source of that to me, since it conflicts with my information. They sent me a page from starparts.chrysler.com/Fluids
19422
Under CHASSIS, the first diamond is Axle, noting that Castrol SAF-XJ SAE 75W-140 is to be used. Then below that, the first diamond says: "Limited Slip Rear Axles require the addition of 118 ml (4 oz) MOPAR Limited Slip Additive. He actually sent two pages, the first had all my car's info on it, including my VIN, so it's apparently for my car, not an older model or older fluid. i'm certain that the attached page is erroneous, but how do I tell them that? They have documentation, from Chrysler, for my car, that shows the Friction modifier additive requirement. (They also have the Service instructions that do not show adding the Modifier) Any suggestions?

[timberwolf]

I guess my story isn't over yet. The Service Writer called me this morning to "give me good news!" He said that when they ordered the fluid for my appointment today, they found out that that 4 oz of Limited Slip Additive is required after all. I asked him to email the source of that to me, since it conflicts with my information. They sent me a page from starparts.chrysler.com/Fluids
19422
Under CHASSIS, the first diamond is Axle, noting that Castrol SAF-XJ SAE 75W-140 is to be used. Then below that, the first diamond says: "Limited Slip Rear Axles require the addition of 118 ml (4 oz) MOPAR Limited Slip Additive. He actually sent two pages, the first had all my car's info on it, including my VIN, so it's apparently for my car, not an older model or older fluid. i'm certain that the attached page is erroneous, but how do I tell them that? They have documentation, from Chrysler, for my car, that shows the Friction modifier additive requirement. (They also have the Service instructions that do not show adding the Modifier) Any suggestions?

I did this fluid the dealer recommended which worked at first, then after a few 100 miles, the noise started coming back. I'm going to call the dealer back this fall and have a new diff put in.
Could be different for your car but as I guessed it's bandaid fix.

[Steve-Indy]

I would suggest that you read the ORIGINAL DISCUSSION on this topic...which exposes conflicting info within Chrysler...hence all of the effort in exploring the CORRECT answer:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/threads/9410-Differential-fluid-change-and-the-addition-of-friction-modifier

After that, do what you like.

[Exhlr8n]

Any issues with using Mobil One Synthetic 75W-140?

Meets the API Service GL-5 EP gear oil service classification
Performs over a wide range of temperatures
Reduced fluid friction
Reduces wear and spalling under the high-speed, high-torque and high-horsepower conditions in many sport utility vehicles, vans, light trucks, and cars

[Steve M]

Any issues with using Mobil One Synthetic 75W-140?

Meets the API Service GL-5 EP gear oil service classification
Performs over a wide range of temperatures
Reduced fluid friction
Reduces wear and spalling under the high-speed, high-torque and high-horsepower conditions in many sport utility vehicles, vans, light trucks, and cars

Personal preference IMO...when I bought my Gen 4, it had the original diff fluid still in it with about 10,000 miles on it. That thing groaned and gave me all sorts of cold start tight steering issues (front tires skittering across the ground while maneuvering in my driveway), so anything would have been an improvement. I changed it out to Torco 75w140 with 4 oz. of Mopar limited slip additive, and all of those problems went away. I have about 15,000 miles on my car now, and just swapped out for Amsoil Severe Gear 75w140 with 4 oz. of Mopar limited slip additive...no real difference in performance, but the diff fluid that was in there came out dirty. Keep in mind, my car is used on the street only...if you are a track regular, you'll need to change it out much more frequently. I only put about 1,000 miles on it a year, so changing it every 3-4 years seems to do the trick.

[quickster2]

Just for the record in a Gen IV you should only use 2.6 OZ of the friction modifier per the service manual. The Gen V current fill will help with NVH longer term issues per SRT Powertrain on a Gen IV. Too much friction modifier is as bad as too little and will damage your differential. 2.6 OZ is essentially equal to 5% by volume which is the target and mentioned in other Gen V threads.

I too would recommend staying with the "original discussion" as mentioned by Steve in post # 33. Referring to the original discussion I believe the manuals were not updated to reflect the changes in the diff fill recommendations.

[sadil]

What is the size of the 68197927AA MOPAR bottle? Do I need to order 2 bottles or 4 bottles to get 2L? I see that the Castrol Syntrax is 500 ml but they also sell 1L bottles. Cannot find size of MOPAR bottle.

Sarosh

[AZTVR]

What is the size of the 68197927AA MOPAR bottle?

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13820-Just-got-the-call-Another-recall-2016-Diff?p=228441&viewfull=1#post228441

[sadil]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13820-Just-got-the-call-Another-recall-2016-Diff?p=228441&viewfull=1#post228441

Thank you sir and thank you op for clearing all this up.

[uberpube]

Is the Gen V still a dana 44 differential? I use to blow them up all the time in my 440 truck's front axle, seems light for the power the motor makes in the Viper.

[swexlin]

Is the Gen V still a dana 44 differential? I use to blow them up all the time in my 440 truck's front axle, seems light for the power the motor makes in the Viper.

Yes, it is a Dana, I believe a 44. Pretty sold diffs overall, but some of us have had them replaced.

[Garron]

Yes, it is a Dana, I believe a 44. Pretty sold diffs overall, but some of us have had them replaced.


The reason they are telling us they are being replaced is because the wrong ratio of additive to gear oil was mixed incorrectly in the bulk container from factory. That's why there is an axle recall.

[swexlin]

Mine (and many other pre-2016 Vipers) have had their diffs start whining and clunking. Has been an issue for a year Gen 5s, I guess they've finally admitted!

[AZTVR]

Mine (and many other pre-2016 Vipers) have had their diffs start whining and clunking. Has been an issue for a year Gen 5s, I guess they've finally admitted!

I didn't understand your use of words there in the last sentence; but who has admitted what, when? The only thing that I have read is that some were being replaced due to being filled with the wrong fluid mixture. What build range of cars were affected by this ?

[ViperGeorge]

What is the size of the 68197927AA MOPAR bottle? Do I need to order 2 bottles or 4 bottles to get 2L? I see that the Castrol Syntrax is 500 ml but they also sell 1L bottles. Cannot find size of MOPAR bottle.

Sarosh

My dealer used two bottles on my TA.

[swexlin]

I didn't understand your use of words there in the last sentence; but who has admitted what, when? The only thing that I have read is that some were being replaced due to being filled with the wrong fluid mixture. What build range of cars were affected by this ?

I was replying that they admitted the problem with the 16s under recall. However, I was trying to emphasize that this can't be the only issue, because Gen 5s of all years have had diff issues - gear whine mostly. Do a search on here under "diff whine" and you'll find several threads.

[VENOM V]

I guess my story isn't over yet. The Service Writer called me this morning to "give me good news!" He said that when they ordered the fluid for my appointment today, they found out that that 4 oz of Limited Slip Additive is required after all. I asked him to email the source of that to me, since it conflicts with my information. They sent me a page from starparts.chrysler.com/Fluids
19422
Under CHASSIS, the first diamond is Axle, noting that Castrol SAF-XJ SAE 75W-140 is to be used. Then below that, the first diamond says: "Limited Slip Rear Axles require the addition of 118 ml (4 oz) MOPAR Limited Slip Additive. He actually sent two pages, the first had all my car's info on it, including my VIN, so it's apparently for my car, not an older model or older fluid. i'm certain that the attached page is erroneous, but how do I tell them that? They have documentation, from Chrysler, for my car, that shows the Friction modifier additive requirement. (They also have the Service instructions that do not show adding the Modifier) Any suggestions?

Maybe this was already answered (long thread!), but the correct answer is DON'T add additional limited slip additive.

The MOPAR part number for this fluid is 68197927AA as explained in post #1, and you need two bottles.

I'm changing mine this weekend

Just confirmed this with Mark Jorgensen, he is certain.

[TA Two Oh]

Thanks Todd. I am certain that they were not supposed to add the additive. The only issue now is trying to convince them of that. I went to the Parts Dept hoping to look at a bottle. I thought it might say "Contains LSD Additive -DO NOT ADD ADDITIVE" but they didn't have any in stock. My store has sold a grand total of 2 Gen V's, one 2014 and my 2015. With the Viper, I literally have to lead them to the water if they're thirsty or they'll die of dehydration.

Just one small example: their Viper tech damaged the underwood insulation on my car during PDI by bending it back to put a stupid Antitheft sticker on the underside of the hood. I pointed it out upon delivery so they ordered me a new one and put it on but a wheel had been placed on it during shipping so it was worse than the original, damaged one. I complained and they ordered me another one, installed it and the entire top edge is crushed... like, 4 feet of damage. I have a dash cam that actually recorded the tech saying: " this is bad...he's definitely not going to be happy with this" as he finished up the installation. Each new piece was worse than the last so I just dropped the issue and I try not to look at it when I open my hood.

If you see something to the effect that the additive is already in the fluid, on the bottle, please let me know and I'll order some just so that I can show it to them. Otherwise I'm pretty sure I'll have to do it myself. I showed them everything in this thread and the other diff fluid thread but they blew me off cause they had one thing that said otherwise.


I have plenty of time now as it's below freezing, there's a pickled mixture of brine and very sharp rocks on the roads and things will stay that way until about May. (You guys down south are soooooo lucky!) Thanks again to you (and Steve a while back) for your assistance. My path of least resistance may end up being to eat the $250 I paid them to change it, buy the fluid, and learn how to change it myself.

Doug

[LmeaViper]

Thanks Todd. I am certain that they were not supposed to add the additive. The only issue now is trying to convince them of that. I went to the Parts Dept hoping to look at a bottle. I thought it might say "Contains LSD Additive -DO NOT ADD ADDITIVE" but they didn't have any in stock. My store has sold a grand total of 2 Gen V's, one 2014 and my 2015. With the Viper, I literally have to lead them to the water if they're thirsty or they'll die of dehydration.

Just one small example: their Viper tech damaged the underwood insulation on my car during PDI by bending it back to put a stupid Antitheft sticker on the underside of the hood. I pointed it out upon delivery so they ordered me a new one and put it on but a wheel had been placed on it during shipping so it was worse than the original, damaged one. I complained and they ordered me another one, installed it and the entire top edge is crushed... like, 4 feet of damage. I have a dash cam that actually recorded the tech saying: " this is bad...he's definitely not going to be happy with this" as he finished up the installation. Each new piece was worse than the last so I just dropped the issue and I try not to look at it when I open my hood.

If you see something to the effect that the additive is already in the fluid, on the bottle, please let me know and I'll order some just so that I can show it to them. Otherwise I'm pretty sure I'll have to do it myself. I showed them everything in this thread and the other diff fluid thread but they blew me off cause they had one thing that said otherwise.


I have plenty of time now as it's below freezing, there's a pickled mixture of brine and very sharp rocks on the roads and things will stay that way until about May. (You guys down south are soooooo lucky!) Thanks again to you (and Steve a while back) for your assistance. My path of least resistance may end up being to eat the $250 I paid them to change it, buy the fluid, and learn how to change it myself.

Doug

I took mine into CF in October before I put the car away. I should have asked the tech what he did with the additive in my car. I wonder if it is on the invoice?

[LmeaViper]

Makes a guy wonder if you do the change yourself and have an issue, will you get stung by the dealer for using the wrong fluid.

[TA Two Oh]

Makes a guy wonder if you do the change yourself and have an issue, will you get stung by the dealer for using the wrong fluid.

Same store, as you likely know... my invoice showed - and charged me extra for- the additive. If they did the same to you you'll want it outta there before track season.

[LmeaViper]

Same store, as you likely know... my invoice showed - and charged me extra for- the additive. If they did the same to you you'll want it outta there before track season.

Ok, I pulled out my invoice and it says the following:

Rear Diff Service:

Qty FP Number Desc
2 68197927 -AA Lubricant 01-081-03
2 EHC10 OIL &CONTA
1 04318060 -AD Lubricant 01-081-03

That line up with what you had done? I am thinking that the XXX-AD is the additive at $15.25...WTF

[05Commemorative]

Where are you guys buying this fluid. The dealers up here not only recommend the wrong oil, (sold me the old oil) but also don't carry the correct stuff. To top it, they want to require I order a case (6bottles). so, where you guys getting?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Where are you guys buying this fluid. The dealers up here not only recommend the wrong oil, (sold me the old oil) but also don't carry the correct stuff. To top it, they want to require I order a case (6bottles). so, where you guys getting?

I bought mine online (google search for P/N 68197927AA). They must have recently changed the quantity minimum because last time I bought single bottles but this time I had to buy a case. Anyway if you want a bottle or 2 send me a PM.

Doug

[TA Two Oh]

Ok, I pulled out my invoice and it says the following:

Rear Diff Service:

Qty FP Number Desc
2 68197927 -AA Lubricant 01-081-03
2 EHC10 OIL &CONTA
1 04318060 -AD Lubricant 01-081-03

That line up with what you had done? I am thinking that the XXX-AD is the additive at $15.25...WTF

Yes. I have the identical parts listed. And I see that the cost was over $290.00, not $250.00.

[TA Two Oh]

I bought mine online (google search for P/N 68197927AA). They must have recently changed the quantity minimum because last time I bought single bottles but this time I had to buy a case. Anyway if you want a bottle or 2 send me a PM.

Doug

Doug. Does the bottle happen to say anything about the contents including the Limited Slip additive? I know the additive is in there, but if it actually says so on the bottle my dealer might admit their mistake. Thanks!

[Pappy]

Doug. Does the bottle happen to say anything about the contents including the Limited Slip additive? I know the additive is in there, but if it actually says so on the bottle my dealer might admit their mistake. Thanks!

It does not, but the label does say "This fully synthetic lubricant is specifically formulated for the SRT Viper......", all of which are limited slip - so you could assume it would have the proper additives. That may not be good enough for your hard-headed dealer.
Pappy

[Steve-Indy]

While I have no direct knowledge concerning the root cause of the various Gen V differential problems that have been reported,
I would suggest that the newly formulated fluid was hard to track down...especially since there were discrepancies in some of the Chrysler supplied manuals/Tech Connect info...putting one source in conflict with another. See the first two pages of the original post by Lochnessmonster that called attention to the issue...Link: http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/threads/9410-Differential-fluid-change-and-the-addition-of-friction-modifier

I would suggest that the average tech in the average dealership would fall easy prey to misinformation here...especially with Vipers being fairly scarce in most places.

In my experience, responsible dealers with responsible techs work hard to get the correct answers...even consulting with informed owners if there is any question.

At this point I will promote the VALUE of club membership and these forums !!

[TA Two Oh]

It does not, but the label does say "This fully synthetic lubricant is specifically formulated for the SRT Viper......", all of which are limited slip - so you could assume it would have the proper additives. That may not be good enough for your hard-headed dealer.
Pappy

Thanks Pappy. I appreciate you checking for me.

[LmeaViper]

I guess if shit happens, then they will be changing my diff.

[VENOM V]

At this point I will promote the VALUE of club membership and these forums !!

Completely agree Steve!

[GTSilver]

Came across this thread from FB, thanks for the great info and especially Steve.

I went to change both diff and trans fluid and this is the part numbers that they gave me :

68218657GA for diff fluid
68218058GA for trans fluid

Apparently this isn't recommended for the viper and i should get either Castrol Syntax slip 75w-140 or mopar part 68197927AA the issue is both of these diff fluids aren't available here in Kuwait and I have a track day in a couple of days. Are there any other diff and trans fluid I can use ? Mobil 1 etc or should I cancel the track day and order the parts ?

Thanks
Yousif

[Steve-Indy]

If it is any help, the necessary differential fluid for the Gen V Viper was initially formulated by Castrol for Nissan GTR's and BMW M types according to Castrol in England.

The correct transmission fluid is Mopar ATF+4.

[GTSilver]

If it is any help, the necessary differential fluid for the Gen V Viper was initially formulated by Castrol for Nissan GTR's and BMW M types according to Castrol in England.

The correct transmission fluid is Mopar ATD+4.

I'll check with both Nissan and BMW dealerships tomorrow if they have the diff fluid.

Regarding the trans fluid what we have here is Mopar ATF+4 part number 68218058GA. Do you know any other trans fluid I could use ? Thanks again.

[Steve-Indy]

Why switch transmission fluid? By the way, that is your power steering fluid as well.

[GTSilver]

2179521796
Why switch transmission fluid? By the way, that is your power steering fluid as well.

I'm changing all fluids on the car as an annual check up and also as I'm heading to the track. I would love to put what fluids that is mentioned here in this thread but they aren't available here in Kuwait although maybe the diff fluid I may find it at either BMW or Nissan tomorrow. Please see attached pictures with part numbers. Thanks

[AZTVR]

If it is any help, the necessary differential fluid for the Gen V Viper was initially formulated by Castrol for Nissan GTR's and BMW M types according to Castrol in England.

The correct transmission fluid is Mopar ATD+4.

Regarding the trans fluid what we have here is Mopar ATF+4 part number 68218058GA. Do you know any other trans fluid I could use ? Thanks again.


Why switch transmission fluid? By the way, that is your power steering fluid as well.

I think maybe some confusion has arisen when Steve mis-typed " ATD+4 ". He meant ATF+4 ( ATF is the abbreviation for Automatic Transmission Fluid; but, it is what is specified for use in the Gen V manual transmission)

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks for correcting my typo, AZTVR !!

[Redx]

Well when we punched in the number to the local dealer(canada) it comes up with switching up to the old part number for 75w140 using the friction modifier. Oh well.

[JDoucette]

I found the Castrol Syntrax at https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/differential-gear-oil-hypoid-sae-75w-140-1-liter.html?3593=545783 , not really any cheaper than at the dealer.

Is the above link for carpartsdiscount.com "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip Differential Oil (Hypoid Oil) - SAE 75W-140 (1 Liter) 001 989 52 03 10" verified as the same "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140" as mentioned in the Gen V Owners Manual? It does not appear to have the MOPAR part number 68197927AA on it...

If it is the same (not sure if this is worth the risk), it looks like it can ship in a few days vs. 5-7 days for most places.

[wrh3]

Is the above link for carpartsdiscount.com "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip Differential Oil (Hypoid Oil) - SAE 75W-140 (1 Liter) 001 989 52 03 10" verified as the same "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140" as mentioned in the Gen V Owners Manual? It does not appear to have the MOPAR part number 68197927AA on it...


It will not have the Mopar P/N on it, the only thing you will see that on is the dealer Mopar branded product. Through others research on the forum, this is the same as the dealer part number: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10104-FINAL-answer-on-Gen-V-Viper-Differential-lubricant-plus-a-Gen-IV-tip

But if you have doubts, order it from the dealer- peace of mind negates any $$$ savings or convenience :very_drunk:

[Norwegian]

Sorry to bring an old tread back to life, but we can't´t get the Mopar diff fluid here in Norway, so I just want to make sure that this Castrol is the correct one?
50566
50567

[Steve-Indy]

Norwegian, while I have not yet tried to compare the product numbers on the labels, I can tell you that the bottles that I use say "Syntrax Limited Slip", NOT "Syntrax Long Life".

So the question is: did they change the labeling or does your photo show a different product?

[GTS Dean]

Who makes the limited slip unit for the Gen 4 & 5s? What does the manufacturer's site recommend for lubricant?

[Steve-Indy]

As thoroughly outlined in post number one of this thread, this fluid was made by Castrol for Mopar...among others.

Unfortunately, Mopar no longer supplies this fluid...which, in my opinion, is a real slap in the face to the Gen V Viper owners.

Norwegian, I just returned from the local Mercedes Benz dealership where I have been obtaining the CORRECT Castrol product for over 7 years. The label HAS NOT CHANGED...it reads: "Castrol. Syntrax Limited Slip. 75W 140. Smooth Drive Technology".

While at MB, bought 6 more of the 0.5 liter bottles at a price of $22.00 per bottle. I like this size as it is very easy to use...with it's clever spout. It takes 3 of this size bottle for the Gen V differential.

I remember the first few times I bought the Mopar stuff, the dealer charged $70.00 per quart!!.. When I made them aware of the MB price, it came down to $38.00 per quart. So, the cost effective mechanism was to buy one quart from Mopar, and 0.5 liter Castrol bottle from MB ( which the nice folks at the Dodge parts desk had delivered for me from MB).

While I was told by the Castrol chemists in England that this fluid was also bottled for Nissan (GTR), BMW (M series with higher horsepower), and used in the MB AMG diff, I have only tried to buy from MB.

One final note: the specs on the back of the Castrol bottles from MB are in German.

Good luck, Sir.

P.S. While my local dealership could not obtain the Mopar Gen V differential fluid last summer, and another Indiana dealership said the same thing, Viper Tech Tom Sessions is now rechecking on its availability at present.

Tom just called back and said that this fluid (along with some others) is listed under the same part number. 68197927AA...but is now designated as "SSD"...which means Supplier Ships Direct...thus there is none listed at Mopar depot. There are 348 quarts at the supplier at present...so, expect a 3-4 day shipping time. If your local parts department can work through this, the fluid should come in a round bottle that says on the back it is used in the "SRT Viper".

THANKS, Tom !!

Once again, if you are in a hurry, see your local MB dealership.

[Hawk]

I've been using this Mobil 1 fluid

50568

[Steve M]

Who makes the limited slip unit for the Gen 4 & 5s? What does the manufacturer's site recommend for lubricant?

GKN Visco Lok.

[quickster2]

Mopar Wholesale Parts shows the Mfg. P/N fluid as available. Many others show no stock when you search online. Don't know if they actually have it. Some on eBay and at an exorbitant price. Good luck.

[GTS Dean]

GKN Visco Lok.

https://www.gknautomotive.com/globalassets/downloads/sideshaft-datasheet/viscous-engl.pdf

The GKN site says the diff is filled with silicone fluid and sealed for life. If that's truly the case, then I don't see why any good quality synthetic hypoid gear oil - without additive - would not be an acceptable lubricant choice. All it is protecting are the stub shaft splines, the bearings and the ring & pinion gears.

If you pull an oil sample of new lubricant, then compare it with subsequent regular samples, you should be able to determine if the silicone fluid as begun to leak past the internal seals. As hot as our diffs run without external cooling, it probably happens.

Going back to Page 1 here, I think we need to research more carefully when the Visco-Lok diff was installed in the Gen4. It appears that it was only the 2010 model, and all subsequent Gen 5s. Therefore - the 08-09 cars may still require a 5% (~2.4oz) friction modifier dose added with the synthetic gear oil.

This is a fantastic thread from the VCA board - check out post #19:
https://www.viperclub.org/vca/threads/differentials-explained.616905/

[Steve-Indy]

Excellent link, Dean...thank you for posting !!

[Steve M]

https://www.gknautomotive.com/globalassets/downloads/sideshaft-datasheet/viscous-engl.pdf

The GKN site says the diff is filled with silicone fluid and sealed for life. If that's truly the case, then I don't see why any good quality synthetic hypoid gear oil - without additive - would not be an acceptable lubricant choice. All it is protecting are the stub shaft splines, the bearings and the ring & pinion gears.



That goes directly against my personal experience with my '08.


Going back to Page 1 here, I think we need to research more carefully when the Visco-Lok diff was installed in the Gen4. It appears that it was only the 2010 model, and all subsequent Gen 5s. Therefore - the 08-09 cars may still require a 5% (~2.4oz) friction modifier dose added with the synthetic gear oil.

This is a fantastic thread from the VCA board - check out post #19:
https://www.viperclub.org/vca/threads/differentials-explained.616905/

I do not share your concern. I have seen no evidence to suggest that the differentials in the 2008 and 2009 cars were different than what was put in the 2010 cars, but my only hands-on resource is my own car.

What is your source for this info?

[Steve-Indy]

Hi, Steve:

You said "I do not share your concern. I have seen no evidence to suggest that the differentials in the 2008 and 2009 cars were different than what was put in the 2010 cars, but my only hands-on resource is my own car."

I agree with you
In fact I am looking at the 2008 Service Manual right now and it states "The Visco Lok differential contains..."

That, coupled with my info from "the Viper driveline folks" is good enough confirmation for me.

[Old School]

50608

[GTS Dean]

I was reading some conflicting info. Since I'm just a lowly Gen2 gearhead, I'll politely stand corrected. All Gen 4/5 different have the sealed diff and I don't see any need for whale oil additive in the axle housing. Nor does it appear that those owners should be fretting about unobtanium lubes.

[Steve M]

I was reading some conflicting info. Since I'm just a lowly Gen2 gearhead, I'll politely stand corrected. All Gen 4/5 different have the sealed diff and I don't see any need for whale oil additive in the axle housing. Nor does it appear that those owners should be fretting about unobtanium lubes.

Nothing lowly about a Gen 2. There's no shortage of conflicting info out there though, but I've been wrong many, many times over the 10 years I've owned my car.

My experience: when I first bought my car back in 2011, it had about 9,500 miles on it. Over the next few months of getting to know the car, I noted that the front tires would skitter across my concrete driveway when making tight turns (backing out of my side facing garage). Many folks recommended a differential oil change at that point, and recommended the Mopar fluid with friction modifier as the "correct" fluid.

Did the swap, used the modifier, and the problem went away. I've not gone without the modifier (or a fluid that already had it) since then.

I guess the question becomes was it the new fluid or the modifier that fixed the problem?

I've never felt compelled to try going without. The Gen 5 diff currently in my car (which is how I now have 3.55 gears) has only had the factory fill (it was shipped full) or the fluid Steve-Indy recommended when this thread first came to light nearly 7 (!) years ago at this point. I'm convinced that some sort of friction modifier is required, even if it is a sealed unit that doesn't draw from the fluid surrounding it.

[Old School]

50608

2 quotes from the ViscoLok data sheet:

"The shear pump and silicone fluid reservoir are self-contained and maintenance free"

"All-steel clutch pack is lubricated by the axle hypoid gear oil"

The silicone fluid is used to apply pressure to the clutch pack, but not lubricate it. That's done by the gear oil, which is why friction modifier is required.

[GTS Dean]

50608That is an entirely different mechanism than the one I referenced. I have never seen the later model cars' rear end opened up.

[Mikey]

Is it typical for the GEN v diffs to make some noise when coming out of a stop?

[Steve M]

Is it typical for the GEN v diffs to make some noise when coming out of a stop?

What kind of noise are you hearing?

[Steve M]

That is an entirely different mechanism than the one I referenced. I have never seen the later model cars' rear end opened up.

This is as good as I can find for the moment: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/4157-What-to-replace-a-Viper-with-EJOL-Evil-Jack-o-lantern-Build-thread?p=127288&viewfull=1#post127288

If you are ever passing through Dayton, just stop by and we'll crack open the spare I have sitting in my shed.

[AZTVR]

This is as good as I can find for the moment: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/4157-What-to-replace-a-Viper-with-EJOL-Evil-Jack-o-lantern-Build-thread?p=127288&viewfull=1#post127288


I am assuming that that is the clutch pack that I see in the open area of the GKN differential in the following photo of the opened 2008 differential case? Comparing it to the diagram in the GKN Visco Lok LSD differential tech sheet linked by Old School, above. (I am just in the learning process about LSDs) 50609


50611

[Steve M]

I am assuming that that is the clutch pack that I see in the open area of the GKN differential in the following photo of the opened 2008 Differential case? Comparing it to the diagram in the GKN Visco Lok LSD differential tech sheet linked by Old School, above. (I am just in the learning process about LSDs)

That's what it looks like to me.

[pokeyl]

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-castrol-parts/castrol-saf-xj-75w140-500-ml/001989520310/

[Mikey]

What kind of noise are you hearing?

I'd say it's more of a "chirp" sound

- - - Updated - - -


What kind of noise are you hearing?

I'd say it's more of a "chirp" sound

[GTS Dean]

I am assuming that that is the clutch pack that I see in the open area of the GKN differential in the following photo of the opened 2008 differential case? Comparing it to the diagram in the GKN Visco Lok LSD differential tech sheet linked by Old School, above. (I am just in the learning process about LSDs) 50609


50611

So to me, the Viper's diff housing appears to be somewhat of a mirror-image of the GKN example. It looks to me like the sealed viscous pressure section is next to the right side bearing. Are Viper spider gears housed under the ring gear?

With friction plates clearly exposed to gear lube, then the amount of preload and slip are subject to: thermal expansion of the sealed silicone oil section, the speed differential between axles and thirdly, the dosing percentage of the additive. It should be expected that on a lower slip/dosing (more locked) setup, there will be exaggerated noise and popping on cold starts in the driveway and parking lots - somewhat similar to a locker type diff.

[Old School]

I'd say it's more of a "chirp" sound



While going straight or turning?

[Old School]

Sorry to bring an old tread back to life, but we can't´t get the Mopar diff fluid here in Norway, so I just want to make sure that this Castrol is the correct one?
50566
50567


Norwegian, while I have not yet tried to compare the product numbers on the labels, I can tell you that the bottles that I use say "Syntrax Limited Slip", NOT "Syntrax Long Life".

So the question is: did they change the labeling or does your photo show a different product?
Some photos of the stuff I have. Interesting that the newer ones have an updated UPC code (sticker).
50613

[StrokerAce]

I'd say it's more of a "chirp" sound

- - - Updated - - -



I'd say it's more of a "chirp" sound

Do you have the "Hill Assist" or whatever it is called on?

[Steve-Indy]

Old School, that IS the good stuff. I see your 1 liter bottles have English wording on the back. Interesting.

[Mikey]

While going straight or turning?

Both, it doesn't do it all the time

- - - Updated - - -


Do you have the "Hill Assist" or whatever it is called on?

Nah, turned it off, was more of a pain than anything

[quickster2]

When I had my GEN IV it was suggested by the Engineer's to use the GEN V fluid for reduced NVH. I wonder if you can use the original GEN IV fluid with modifier in a GEN V? I recall also being told that the fluids that say LSD or similar do not have the correct amount of modifier. Never had a discussion about how much modifier 1 might add to "regular" diff fluid.

[Norwegian]

Thanks!
Just spoke with my local MB dealer, they have the correct one in 0,5 bottles.

I have to say, this forum is a lifesaver living where I do!

[Steve-Indy]

Happy to hear that you found the right fluid !!

[Steve-Indy]

UPDATE ON THE GEN V Differential Fluid:

As many of you know, CJDR dealers no longer carry the Castrol Syntrax diff fluid previously supplied under a MOPAR label.

The correct fluid has been carried by Mercedes dealerships as noted above...Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140.

I have recently "heard" that the Syntrax is being replaced at Mercedes dealerships by Castrol Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140. This is supposedly approved for the same cars as the Syntrax...AMG, BMW M, and Nissan GT-R.

I have not had a chance to confirms this just yet...but, I wanted to warn the group that a product change may be happening. If YOU have better intel, please share it here.

Stay tuned.

[BSLSK]

Thanks for sharing.

[ViperGeorge]

UPDATE ON THE GEN V Differential Fluid:

As many of you know, CJDR dealers no longer carry the Castrol Syntrax diff fluid previously supplied under a MOPAR label.

The correct fluid has been carried by Mercedes dealerships as noted above...Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140.

I have recently "heard" that the Syntrax is being replaced at Mercedes dealerships by Castrol Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140. This is supposedly approved for the same cars as the Syntrax...AMG, BMW M, and Nissan GT-R.

I have not had a chance to confirms this just yet...but, I wanted to warn the group that a product change may be happening. If YOU have better intel, please share it here.

Stay tuned.

How fast will Mercedes change to the new fluid? Can you still get the old stuff at their dealerships?

[ViperGeorge]

Is this the right stuff? Castrol Gear Oil 75W140 SYNTRAX LONGLIFE - 558.00.97. I may hit a Mercedes dealer or two to see if they have it but want to make sure I'm looking for the right stuff.

[Steve-Indy]

The correct ORIGINAL differential fluid is called " Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140". The label also reads "Axle fluid for limited slip differentials".

P.S. George, I texted the photos to your phone of the 500 ml and liter bottles of this fluid to you. There are shots of front and back on the smaller containers.

[ViperGeorge]

I just bought 6 bottles of Castrol TRANSMAX Limited Slip 75W-140 gear oil from my local Mercedes dealer. Under the 75W-140 on the bottle it says "Limited Slip Axel Fluid". On the back it states "API GL-5-Approval 235.61**, ZF TE ML 05C 12D, 16G, 18,21C*** BMW LS Rear Axels; Recommended for use in Nissan GTR limited slip rear axels. *SAE Class according to J306 pre 1998 ** (MP part number A 001 989 52 03 10) ***(DE01 ZF002141)"

The parts guy said TRANSMAX has replaced Syntrax. Here are photos.
52875
52876

Notice that the part number is the same as shown in post #93 for the Syntrax.

[Steve-Indy]

Good show, George !!

[awhit17]

As another FYI, the Liqui Moly 75-140 gear oil is specifically designed to suit applications that need SAF-XJ friction modifier, aka our Visco-lok. It is a great and easily available substitute.

[Nth Viper]

As another FYI, the Liqui Moly 75-140 gear oil is specifically designed to suit applications that need SAF-XJ friction modifier, aka our Visco-lok. It is a great and easily available substitute.

This is what I settled on, since I couldn't locate any Mopar (reasonably priced) or Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip (anywhere). I did notice after about 2k miles some serious NVH around bends at highway speeds. Even a TT Viper next to me heard it over their car. Not sure if that is this fluid, or my aggressive driving. No noise unless laying into it around corners. I'm going to change to Castrol Transmax and see if the noise is still around.

[awhit17]

Well it sounds like the noise is when the diff is locking up some, which would point to it potentially being solved by the fluid....Dang. I have not had issues with my car but I have also not driven it hard since making the switch.

[ek1]

Sooooo....since the original fluid has been discontinued, what is my Viper tech at the Dodge dealer is going to use to do a fluid change for a Gen 5 diff later this year?

[ViperGeorge]

Sooooo....since the original fluid has been discontinued, what is my Viper tech at the Dodge dealer is going to use to do a fluid change for a Gen 5 diff later this year?

The same fluid is available at your local Mercedes dealer. The name has changed from Syntax to Transmax but the part number is the same. It will come in a Castrol gold color container. See post #109. You will need to take the fluid to your Dodge dealer.

[ek1]

The same fluid is available at your local Mercedes dealer. The name has changed from Syntax to Transmax but the part number is the same. It will come in a Castrol gold color container. See post #109. You will need to take the fluid to your Dodge dealer.

Yup, I saw that post and I already ordered 6 cans of the MB part yesterday. I was just wondering what happens if someone shows up at a Dodge dealer wanting to do a diff fluid change on their Viper.

[Steve-Indy]

ek1, there is an excellent chance that the dealer will try to give you the Gen I-IV diff fill...and, likely from the bulk source. This has been a problem from the very beginning of the Gen V's for all of the reasons I listed when I started this post.

My advice is to take your own fluid...just as you plan.

[ek1]

ek1, there is an excellent chance that the dealer will try to give you the Gen I-IV diff fill...and, likely from the bulk source. This has been a problem from the very beginning of the Gen V's for all of the reasons I listed when I started this post.

My advice is to take your own fluid...just as you plan.

Now I'm wondering what I got in my car. I got a brand new rear diff under warranty in Sept '21 and it's kind of noisy....nothing crazy, just a little occasional rattle. I think I'll ask the tech to do a test drive when I take it in for an oil change in a few months. Maybe they didn't have the right fluid and put something else in.

No additives required for this one, correct?

[Steve-Indy]

No additive necessary with the correct Gen V fluid.

[quickster2]

Now I'm wondering what I got in my car. I got a brand new rear diff under warranty in Sept '21 and it's kind of noisy....nothing crazy, just a little occasional rattle. I think I'll ask the tech to do a test drive when I take it in for an oil change in a few months. Maybe they didn't have the right fluid and put something else in.

No additives required for this one, correct?

The new differentials came right from Dana with the fluid already in them. It would be worth checking with the dealer to see if that was the case for your warranty replacement.

[mblgjr]

Sooooo....since the original fluid has been discontinued, what is my Viper tech at the Dodge dealer is going to use to do a fluid change for a Gen 5 diff later this year?

Nothing; you're going to supply them with the correct fluid :) right

[ViperGeorge]

I ordered the diff fluid from the link in post 93. When you look at the link it shows Castrol Syntrax but when it arrived it was Transmax. Same part number so I'm sure it is just a new name for the old fluid.

[Steve-Indy]

From the Castrol website:

"Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140 Axle Fluid for Limited Slip Differentials

Description: Castrol Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140, formulated with Smooth Drive TechnologyTM, is a full synthetic hypoid gear oil formulated for use in both conventional and limited slip differentials. It has demonstrated outstanding performance in competition vehicles employing limited slip differentials. It is approved for use in the high performance BMW-M Series and Mercedes Benz AMG limited slip differentials.

Advantages: Reduces noise and vibrations in the axle. Excellent shear stability maintaining performance over the life of the lubricant. Exceptional stability at high temperatures extending the life of lubricant and axle. Effective wear resistance ensures protection under high loads and prevents damage to components. Very good low temperature fluidity properties increases protection at start up."

[Old School]

Kind of a poor choice of names, if I saw "Transmax" on the shelf, I would think it's gear oil for manual transmissions.

[Steve-Indy]

Totally agree !!

[Martin]

Sorry that I didn't read through all of the threads... Is this stuff good for the Gen II diffs, too? I'd like to standardize on one fluid. My Gen II diff whined like crazy, so I swapped in Red Line fluid which sorted it out completely. But, if there's something out there that will fix that problem, I'm going to stock up on it. I might even use it in my Rubicon 392 diffs if it meets those specs. The Rubicon diffs get crazy hot....

[Steve-Indy]

Martin, the answer is...I don't know.

If you read the communication that I quoted in post #1 of this thread. mention was made by THE credible source that Gen IV differentials could benefit from the Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 fluid...with no mention being made concerning the Gen I, II, or III differentials.

A Viper Tech should be able to answer your question.

In my own situation, I use the recommended fluids per each individual vehicle.

[Meteoro]

do you guys use any tread sealer when putting back the plugs?

[mblgjr]

do you guys use any tread sealer when putting back the plugs?

I used a typical liquid teflon pipe sealant (non hardening). Permatex offers it. Don't put it on like the first 3-threads, but otherwise it makes a nice seal.

[mblgjr]

Kind of a poor choice of names, if I saw "Transmax" on the shelf, I would think it's gear oil for manual transmissions.

I agree but there can be some odd product relabeling from the European/World market sometimes. Their marketing department doesn't always jive with what we're used to.

[finalleaf]

just ordered off ECS at about $23/500ml, gonna assume the local mercedes dealership will be more expensive

also considered motul/redline which my shop has and say they're "compatible" but i dont see anything in the forums about them and I dont want to be the guinea pig :P

[Steve-Indy]

"Change is the only constant in life"...Heraclitus (Greek Philosopher)

IMPORTANT UPDATE/WARNING on the EVOLUTION and AGE of Gen V Viper Differential Fluids

For the early history of this specific fluid, see post # 1 in this 2015 thread:

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10104-FINAL-answer-on-Gen-V-Viper-Differential-lubricant-plus-a-Gen-IV-tip

Keep in mind that MOPAR stopped supplying their branded version of the Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 somewhere around 2018-2019. It was NOT listed in the pdf version Chrysler/MOPAR "2020 Vehicle Lubricant & Chemical Catalog". While a few bottles existed at some dealerships, many of us had already started buying the Castrol version directly from Mercedes dealerships that came in metric equivalents of pints and quarts...at an excellent price. The pint size (actually 500 ml) has a very handy extendable spout. INTERESTINGLY, this Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 has now disappeared from many Mercedes dealerships...and, from Castrol's online product list.

The latest Castrol differential product for Mercedes AMG's, BMW M series, Nissan GTR's, and PRESUMABLY Gen V Vipers that supersedes the Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 is Castrol Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140. The container looks like the Syntrax...with the same cool spout on the 500ml bottles which sell for $26.75 apiece retail (tax included) here in Indy today. While it puzzles me that Castrol picked the name "Transmax" for a differential lubricant, the Castrol Tech Supporyt Help Line in the UK who I contacted by telephone TODAY assured me that the Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140 is an IMPROVED lube for our differentials.

IMPORTANT RECENT DISCOVERY by Viper Wizard Chuck Tator (Owner of Tator's Garage...Head of VOA Tech Committee):
While preparing to use some of the original MOPAR "SAE75W-140Gear and Axle Lubricant" in a Gen V Viper differential, Chuck noticed that this "fluid" had turned to "jello", with lumps, and a gritty precipitate was also noted. THIS IS MOST ALARMING as many (most ??) folks that I know generally squeeze these bottles by hand to fill the differentials directly without the potential mess of using a transfer pump. So, WHO would know the status of the fluid ?? Unfortunately, the fluid that Chuck had purchased from a dealership had no discernible date codes...so the actual age was/is unknown. Chuck got rid of the whole lot.

When doing a little lube research, I found that a general rule of thumb for these fluids is that they have about a 5 year shelf life. Fluid and lube EXPERT Tom Hayden was kind enough to give me a short tutorial on these types of products...noting that this is complex chemistry. Tom MAY get in on this thread in the near future...and if he does, please LISTEN to his advice and explanations. By the way, during my conversation with Castrol UK today, they indeed confirmed the 5 year shelf life of these products...noting that once the container has been opened and resealed, it must be used within 2 years or discarded.

WITH the background information updated above, I PERSONALLY would RECOMMEND that Gen V owners use only Castrol Transmax Limited Slip LL 75W-140 purchased at one's local Mercedes dealership...paying strict attention to the date code on the bottle before purchase and use.

If you have a supply of the older Syntrax with date codes less than 5 years, I would only use it after decanting it (like a bottle of wine) into a clean, clear container to check for separation of the contents, thickening of the fluid, and/or precipitation of components .

If you have some of the discontinued MOPAR fluid, I would NOT USE IT and would merely discard it in the appropriate fashion.


FINALLY, I would add a "pitch" for joining and/or renewing one's membership in the Viper Owners Association with the following question:

Who else is watching out for YOU and YOUR VALUABLE ASP in this important and ever changing arena??

REMEMBER that "It takes a village..."

Respectfully submitted,

Steve Fess, Membership and "Special Ops" Coordinator, VOA IN/KY Region, Inc. 317-402-9013

"YOUR Viper Owners WORKING for YOU !!!

P.S. Updates, corrections, and additional information to this post are ALWAYS WELCOME

[ViperGeorge]

Steve, thanks for the update. I had purchased Transmax from my local Mercedes Dealer and it has the same part number as the older Syntrax fluid. I really need to get the diff fluid in my 14 GTS changed and my 08 Vert. Does the 08 take the same fluid, the Transmax?

[Steve-Indy]

First off, George, THANKS for your input on this and your posted photos of the new Transmax as found on page #5 of this thread. You are a major contributor to the Viper cause !!

The answer to your question about using the Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 in Gen IV differentials was answered by "THE Man" as covered in this quote from post #1:
"... NVH issue became more apparent with the introduction of the Viper GKN Visco Lok differential in 2008. For 2008 – 2010, we lived with the standard 75W-140 fluid because it met all of our durability requirements and was less expensive than other lube alternatives. But we did have more of a friction modifier ‘loss of effectiveness’ issue with the Visco Lok as we got more experience with the new differential. We learned that on some cars, the Visco Lok would tend to make a howl/growl/grind noise when turning at low speed if the friction modifier was used up. So for 2013, we went with the special Castrol SAF-XJ 75W-140 synthetic developed by Castrol and GKN for the Visco Lok. This fluid has a different friction modifier and blend % already mixed for factory fill and Service. No added friction modifier is necessary. It is also recommended that the Castrol SAF-XJ be used for Service of 2008 – 2010 Vipers with the Visco Lok...."

[ViperGeorge]

First off, George, THANKS for your input on this and your posted photos of the new Transmax as found on page #5 of this thread. You are a major contributor to the Viper cause !!

The answer to your question about using the Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 in Gen IV differentials was answered by "THE Man" as covered in this quote from post #1:
"... NVH issue became more apparent with the introduction of the Viper GKN Visco Lok differential in 2008. For 2008 – 2010, we lived with the standard 75W-140 fluid because it met all of our durability requirements and was less expensive than other lube alternatives. But we did have more of a friction modifier ‘loss of effectiveness’ issue with the Visco Lok as we got more experience with the new differential. We learned that on some cars, the Visco Lok would tend to make a howl/growl/grind noise when turning at low speed if the friction modifier was used up. So for 2013, we went with the special Castrol SAF-XJ 75W-140 synthetic developed by Castrol and GKN for the Visco Lok. This fluid has a different friction modifier and blend % already mixed for factory fill and Service. No added friction modifier is necessary. It is also recommended that the Castrol SAF-XJ be used for Service of 2008 – 2010 Vipers with the Visco Lok...."

Thanks, I actually just finished reading that post. After asking the question I figured the answer must be in this thread somewhere so I started from the beginning. I was actually just going to edit my post to remove the question but you beat me to it.

[Steve-Indy]

By the way, in my long post above, I typed "...noticed that this "fluid" had turned to "jello"," when I MEANT to type "jelly". As I recall, Chuck further stated that this fluid was sticky.